Diesel Particulate Filter

[250 downunder]

Hi, my name is Ray.
I have recently purchased a late 2006 golf 2.0 TDI for my wife. I am trying to ascertain whether the vehicle has a DPF fitted. The VW literature gives specs for the 2 litre engine with and without a DPF. Is it possible to tell by the engine code or do I have to remove covers and look for the dreaded bloated down pipe.
My interest stems from the fact that I would like to run Biodiesel in the vehicle. I produce my own biodiesel and run it in my F250 7.3L Powerstroke diesel. To date I have had no problems with the truck but have only recently progressed to running 100%. I pay particular attention to the purity of my biodiesel and control water content and PH very carefully. I filter it to 5 microns before it goes into the vehicle, and have an additional filter on the truck, pre lift pump.
Any help or comments about running Bio in the VW would be much appreciated.

[benough]

Hi, my name is Ray.
I have recently purchased a late 2006 golf 2.0 TDI for my wife. I am trying to ascertain whether the vehicle has a DPF fitted.


No it wont. The only Golf with the DPF is the TDI GT Sport.

My First Golf, an 07 Build, 08 Spec 2.0 TDI Comfortline had a DPF tag on the key but it didn't have a DPF. When you gave it a big push up a hill it would blow a tiny bit of smoke.

From what I understand VW don't recommend biodiesel in these Golfs because of fuel thickening, damage to the injectors etc.

[dumbmonkey]

No it wont. The only Golf with the DPF is the TDI GT Sport.

My First Golf, an 07 Build, 08 Spec 2.0 TDI Comfortline had a DPF tag on the key but it didn't have a DPF. When you gave it a big push up a hill it would blow a tiny bit of smoke.

From what I understand VW don't recommend biodiesel in these Golfs because of fuel thickening, damage to the injectors etc.

I believe the actual reason they don't recommend using bio is, if you have a dpf and it goes through the regeneration cycle (making the exhaust temps really high to burn all the accumulated crap out of the dpf), the over fuelling that occurs for this causes some fuel to get into the block. And apparently bio doesn't play well with the oil etc...

Though I have heard many theories of why they dont like bio, or bio blends being used with this engine, this makes the most sense. NFI what they do in Europe to prevent this though...

[Greg Roles]

I believe the actual reason they don't recommend using bio is, if you have a dpf and it goes through the regeneration cycle (making the exhaust temps really high to burn all the accumulated crap out of the dpf), the over fuelling that occurs for this causes some fuel to get into the block. And apparently bio doesn't play well with the oil etc...

Though I have heard many theories of why they dont like bio, or bio blends being used with this engine, this makes the most sense. NFI what they do in Europe to prevent this though...

Spot on about the regeneration cycle mate, as this is the only reason given in all the VW manuals I recently printed off ErWin. VW also suggests an upgraded fuel heater on their "bio" models.

250 downunder, go look up "dutchaussie" in the Caddy section, he's a bio burner from way back, and is currently doing a lot of research and fact finding about the VW's, most probably for his bio e-book he is due to complete in the next few months.

I'm on his "want one" list!

[250 downunder]

Thanks for the input. I will check out "Dutchaussie".
If the vehicle has no DPF I might be tempted to start running some low percentage blends. The car has only done 19k. so I don't expect there to be too much rubbish throughout the fuel system for the bio to remove.

[mr.damage]

Thanks for the input. I will check out "Dutchaussie".
If the vehicle has no DPF I might be tempted to start running some low percentage blends. The car has only done 19k. so I don't expect there to be too much rubbish throughout the fuel system for the bio to remove.

250 I have done 75000 k in my polo on bio 100 with no problems.
I know for sure the polo has no dpf so no problems there. If you dont have one id say go for it.

[bluey]

VW manual for Polo says EN590 compliant bio/diesel blend (Probably B5) is fine.

[CatonaPC©]

Why has VW chosen to only fit DPF on the GTi? What advantages or disadvantages are there in having one. Am I better off without one?

[bluey]

Half of currently available VW diesels have DPF. All new models will have DPF to meet Euro IV emissions targets. (Data sourced from VW brochures current Nov 2008.)

No DPF in:
* Polo TDI MY08 or MY09.
* Golf V TDI 1.9 and 2.0(103kW)
* New Beetle (current spec dates March 08).
* Jetta MY08 TDI (still current).

DPF is in:
* Golf V TDI 2.0(125kW)
* Passat MY09
* Tiguan TDI MY09
* EOS TDI MY09
* Touareg TDI MY09

I understand the main problem DPF is with biofuels and has to do with the potential level of carbon collected resulting in either DPF clogging or the unburned fuel which is periodically sent to the DPF via engine to regenerate the DPF in combination with high carbon loads causing DPF temperature problems.

Note VW recommends high cetane fuel 51CN on newer models (49CN on older models). The higher cetane fuel burns cleaner with less smoke (and less diesel noise). Regular diesel is of variable cetane (min standard 46CN). So it is probably better to use high cetane diesel (BP Ultimate or Caltex Vortex) or to use a cetane improving additive (eg Amsoil, Duralt, Morey's diesel smoke killer). BP Ultimate is standard refined diesel with an additive package including a nitro cetane improver.

So the same potential problems could occur with low grade standard diesel. With a DPF, you wouldn't see the smoke out the back to know if the fuel is not so good. I wonder what VW would say about warranty given the specification for cetane number in the brochures if someone fuelled a DPF car with standard diesel and the DPF failed or overheated.

Note: There are numerous reports of injector clogging and premature injector failure and expensive repairs from lower grades of biofuels without additives. High grade biodiesel with additives seems to cause less problems from what I have been reading. I'd be happy to try B5 but beyond that am a bit wary of medium/long term problems until more evidence emerges.

[gregozedobe]

Why has VW chosen to only fit DPF on the GTi? What advantages or disadvantages are there in having one. Am I better off without one?

Did you mean Golf GT TDI ? The Golf GTI is petrol (as is the Polo GTI).

I think the GT TDI was more recently available in Oz, so it came with a DPF before other models (eg 1.9 and 2.0 103Kw TDIs) that were already on the market.

The advantages of a DPF are:

Less pollution (both visible - soot, and invisible)
In some markets, less tax (because of less pollution)
Will still be able to be sold in markets where pollution controls are tightening (ie almost all developed countries).

Disadvantages:
More components, more things to go wrong (early ones were prone to faulty sensors), more weight
Increased fuel consumption (regeneration, plus exhaust restriction)
Not well suited to driving in heavy traffic (needs frequent regeneration)
Reduces power potential with remapping

If you do a search here and other forums you will find more (much more :) ) information about DPFs.

I have one on my Transporter, and I have had zero problems with it (and like the lack of soot when I am giving it a bootfull, as it it is much less likely to attract unwanted attention from anyone).

[CatonaPC©]

Sorry, I'm getting mixed up with the GT.

[jggolf]

I have a GT Sport 2.0 TDi and today low and behold the DPF light came on the dash. I took my car straight to be dealer and they suggest to take the car for a run until the light went out on the dash, they also said that the light comes on then the engine reaches a computer reading of 17 (parts per million)? I had a reading of 22.
They also suggested to take the car for a long run every weekend and that sydney peak hour traffic is no good for the GT's as they like autobaun runs?

Can anyone back this up or were they pulling my leg???

Gill

[Oneofthegreats]

YEP. DPF's, don't like traffic at all & can get clogged up real fast!

We had a demo, that had clogged up 30% in less than 3000K.

[gregozedobe]

I have a GT Sport 2.0 TDi .....

They also suggested to take the car for a long run every weekend and that sydney peak hour traffic is no good for the GT's as they like autobaun runs?

Can anyone back this up or were they pulling my leg???

That sounds about right. Lots of UK people are having DPF problems with the 125Kw 2.0 TDI in traffic. There have also been quite a few engines with faulty DPF sensors (pressure sensors IIRC) triggering un-needed regenerations, so not all the problems have been actual clogged DPFs.

If you refrain from giving it a bootful while driving in heavy traffic it will produce less soot and therefore go longer between regenerations. When cruising along the highway at 2,000rpm or more it can do a "passive" regeneration without you knowing. It can also do an "active" regeneration after driving in heavy traffic (it will display a msg on the MDF apparently), and dealers can also do a "forced" regeneration.

If you do some searching you will find lots of info about DPFs and their problems.

[Russ59]

Just be sure and pull over somewhere if it decides to go into the regen. cycle whilst in traffic, I have experienced this once already (although mine was on a cold motor which probably made it worse) you will know if it starts the regen. because generally the car will run a bit rough and unpredictable and the idle will sit on 1000 rpm until it has completed the cycle. I found it near impossible to drive without stalling on take off, really quite dangerous !! :brutal:

Russ

[jggolf]

We only have 1735k on the clock, so does the GT's just go into a regeneration cycle when it feels it needs to, or should I take it to another dealer and get them to check the sensor:)

Feedback greatly appreciated

Gill

[Russ59]

We only have 1735k on the clock, so does the GT's just go into a regeneration cycle when it feels it needs to, or should I take it to another dealer and get them to check the sensor:)

Feedback greatly appreciated

Gill

There are quite a few posts on this already so I won't start a new one but AFAIK YES !! it will start a regeneration cycle when it feels it necessary to do so. Having said that though I don't recall seeing a DPF warning light in the dash when mine did it, then again I wasn't really looking as I was a little preoccupied trying to find somewhere to pull over while it was $hitting itself. :duh: :moonie: If the light keeps coming on at regular intervals then you may have to get the dealer to check it.

Russ

[bluey]

Prevention of DPF clogging by reducing smoke:
a. driving out of the "smoke zone" (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=228287).
b. high cetane fuel or add a cetane improving additive (eg Amsoil, Morey's diesel smoke killer, etc)

Otherwise, the AA has a good article on DPFs. (http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html)

This catalyst manufacturer has some data on DPF regeneration (http://ect.jmcatalysts.com/technologies-diesel-regeneration.htm) and active regeneration data (http://ect.jmcatalysts.com/technologies-diesel-active.htm).

This thread (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=19372) also has some useful info.

[bluey]

Did you mean Golf GT TDI ? The Golf GTI is petrol (as is the Polo GTI).

This week I saw a red Golf V with proper GTI badge on the left and 2.0 TDI on the right. Was that real? Is it a chipped GT and someone has changed badges?? Is it a GTI and someone has done an engine swap?? Is is a foreign import??


PS I am reading about some reliability issues with VAG 2.0 diesels (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=65403) with DPFs to meet Euro Cat IV regulations. Things to be aware of...

[CatonaPC©]

I know my car has a catalytic converter. How does differ from a DPF? Wouldn't there be a potential for soot build up in this?

[Russ59]

Put simply they both do a similar job and that is reduce pollution. The DPF from what I can ascertain is simply newer emissions technology which actually filters fine dust produced by the diesel engine where the CC works to convert the various gases produced and reduce their pollutant effect. I have had to have a CC replaced before on a vehicle due to the build up of crap over time, so yes soot from a diesel will eventually take it's toll on the CC I would think. However from what I have read the DPF is a lot more restrictive as well so it will probably take some time before the soot build up gets the better of a CC. Someone will no doubt come back with a more thorough explanation as this is just my .02 cents worth from a quick online search. It doesn't need to be " Rocket Science " all the time. :biggrin:


Russ

[CatonaPC©]

Thanks Russ. Your explanation was good.

[Greg Roles]

Spot on Russ.

the biggest thing I can see is that whilst a cat is usually a big, fine grid full of straight through channels, the DPF makes the gas cross 90 degrees and is not of a straight through design, hence the restriction.

VW do say in the service bulletins I have that the DPF is a limited life design.
I doubt it's a cheap part!

[Oneofthegreats]

I think the DPF & the Cat. Conv. are a one piece complete unit. Can't remember, but I'll have alook tomorrow if I get a chance.

[Greg Roles]

In the DPF diesels yes they are. Catalyst and filter in one, right after the turbo.

[jggolf]

Well, I took the GT (missy) for a run and revving her over 3200 rpm and holding in 3rd gear at 70k's, which I don't do normally the DPF light went out on the dash.

Thank you every one for your help, I will keep an eye on this. I won't be so worried in the future. It scared the hell out of me then this light came on the dash. The same as when I had an oil light in my old mkV 2.0 tdi came on since then I always carry a 1 ltr of oil is the GT also prone to using a little oil before the first service?

Gill

[Russ59]

Well, I took the GT (missy) for a run and revving her over 3200 rpm and holding in 3rd gear at 70k's, which I don't do normally the DPF light went out on the dash.

Thank you every one for your help, I will keep an eye on this. I won't be so worried in the future. It scared the hell out of me then this light came on the dash. The same as when I had an oil light in my old mkV 2.0 tdi came on since then I always carry a 1 ltr of oil is the GT also prone to using a little oil before the first service?

Gill

I only have around 6000 k's up so far and will be looking at having the 1st service done at 7,500 k's even though VW say 15,000 k intervals. So far I don't think mine has used a drop, although the stupid black dipstick isn't the easiest to read so it may have been slightly over full when I took delivery. I will get around to spraying the dipstick tip in a light colour one day soon so I can see the level properly.


Russ

[Greg Roles]

I've not had to top up yet with 22k's to date. It uses a little between services, but then I'm doing mine every 7500, between dealer visits.

I'd have to say the main form of oil loss is through the vapour, as I drain a hundred ml's or so each 2-3 months from my provent, which the rest of you are ingesting through the inlet.

[bluey]

I understand the DPF is a filter more like a ceramic version of an air filter. (DPF typically has honeycomb structure with alternate ends of pores blocked, so exhaust gas has to pass through walls of ceramic material.) The catalytic convertor has a large surface area but the gases can bump the sides on their way through the holes. (CC typically has a honeycomb of holes - can look through and see light.)

DPFs generate back pressure to start with and can be physically clogged with particles.

CCs don't clog but the precious metal catalysts can be poisoned - no physical backpressure effect but measurable emissions.

[gregozedobe]

VW do say in the service bulletins I have that the DPF is a limited life design.
I doubt it's a cheap part!

AFAIK the DPF fills up because it captures the larger soot particles as you drive.

When flow through the DPF gets too restrictive (ie partially blocked with soot), the ECU "regenerates" (ie runs extra fuel to actually burn the soot). The burnt soot is reduced to a lesser volume of fine ash, which reduces the restriction.

Eventually the DPF gets full of the fine ash and can no longer be effectively regenerated, then it needs to be replaced.

I hope that there are some cheaper aftermarket alternatives when mine needs replacing, as I"m with cogdoc on this one, I can't imagine it will be a cheap fix.

[Transporter]

AFAIK the DPF fills up because it captures the larger soot particles as you drive.

When flow through the DPF gets too restrictive (ie partially blocked with soot), the ECU "regenerates" (ie runs extra fuel to actually burn the soot). The burnt soot is reduced to a lesser volume of fine ash, which reduces the restriction.

Eventually the DPF gets full of the fine ash and can no longer be effectively regenerated, then it needs to be replaced.

I hope that there are some cheaper aftermarket alternatives when mine needs replacing, as I"m with cogdoc on this one, I can't imagine it will be a cheap fix.


I'd like to ad just a few more details about Gregozedobe DPF regenerating process.
The ECU runs extra fuel to burn the soot, but it is actually exhaust gas containg unburned diesel fuel from very rich mixture, that burns of the soot in DPF. By using DPF on engine to protect environment the engine's life is shortened by regenerating process, since the extra fuel washes of the oil film from cylinder walls and there is also more wear (pistons, turbocharger etc.) from extra heat from combustion process.

[gregozedobe]

I thought it wasn't so much a "very rich mixture", but rather the extra "DPF regeneration" fuel was injected very late in the combustion cycle (so that the extra fuel can make its way to the DPF where it is then burnt).

If it was simply extra fuel in the normal combustion cycle it would be burnt and produce large quantities of extra soot (pretty well the exact opposite affect of what you want). Excess fuel in the normal combustion cycle would also give a large amount of extra (unasked for) power, which could be dangerous.

DPF regeneration creates very high temperatures in the exhaust system, and uses a lot of extra fuel too.

I see current DPF technology as a crude, early attempt at pollution control for diesels. I hope that given time manufacturers will get much better at it, like they have with petrol cars. Does anyone remember some of the late 80s, early 90s attempts, particularly the low compression carbie versions ? Some were absolute shockers.

[Transporter]

" it is actually exhaust gas containg unburned diesel fuel from very rich mixture, that burns of the soot in DPF".

Yes, the mixture has to be rich in order to still burn in the DPF, if it was just soot particles you wouldn't burn anything with it.
Of course to achieve that you have to inject fuel later at the end of combustion stroke or at the start of the exhaust stroke. In the case of Unit Injector fuel system I'm not so sure that Unit Injector can inject during the exhaust stroke since the Unit Injector Pump is camshaft operated. Different to CR fuel system where the fuel injector can be activated by ECU at any phase of the piston stroke.
Thanks for making it more clear Gregozedobe,:)
I'm not a very good writer.

[gregozedobe]

Thanks for making it more clear Gregozedobe,:)
I'm not a very good writer.

I think you are plenty good writer, and make many good contributions. I'm just a bit (? :) ) pedantic, and wanted to make sure any newbies reading got a good undersatnding of how their DPF works.

BTW, I don't have any problems with my DPF at all, but that is because nearly all my driving is gentle highway and freeway cruising. I actually like the fact that when I give my van a bootfull it doesn't create a cloud of soot (which I know can irritate many motorists).

[Transporter]

Yes, the soot that what I hate on mine.
Even when you accelerate just a bit more than very slow take off with my T5 everybody around is probably thinking that you are belting the engine up.
How ever Touareg exhaust tips after 13,000 km are so clean that you don't get any dirt on your finger if you touch it inside.
Here is some link on deleting DPF and on DPF topic.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/general/0810dp_diesel_exhaust_dpf_delete/index.html

Great technical magazine highly recommend every body interested in auto technology, there is more similar magazines just browse the site. The negative is that they are very expensive and all of them are good so you may straggle to decide which one you want. I'm receiving ATZ Auto technology every month for free since I subscribed many years ago.

http://www.atzonline.com/index.php;do=edition/site=a4e/sid=68505503449405c1eb86ff114234158/ed=2008-11/mag=Autotechnology

[Oneofthegreats]

Just for interest sake, we had a 2.0TDI come in with 6000k & the DPF was believe it or not 90% blocked! Also a highway car & very well used car!

That mean's the regeneration process no longer work's & also it makes the service mode not work either due to the extreme chance that it may catch on fire, as stated in the service mode on the VASS!

Only thing to do is drive it & get it hot enough to burn some of it out to bring the blockage to an acceptible level where the service mode can work again.

Otherwise the DPF/Cat. has to replaced.

[Transporter]

Just for interest sake, we had a 2.0TDI come in with 6000k & the DPF was believe it or not 90% blocked! Also a highway car & very well used car!

That mean's the regeneration process no longer work's & also it makes the service mode not work either due to the extreme chance that it may catch on fire, as stated in the service mode on the VASS!

Only thing to do is drive it & get it hot enough to burn some of it out to bring the blockage to an acceptible level where the service mode can work again.

Otherwise the DPF/Cat. has to replaced.

What brand of fuel the customer use?
Does he/she use any fuel additives?
I would sample the fuel just to be sure.

[bluey]

It's just a matter of time before VW might decide to wash its hands of DPF cars running fuel less than 51CN as recommended - well at least in the brochure - what does the manual and fuel flap sticker say??

Maybe they will even take the hard line on bio blends too - any trace of bio, no dpf warranty.

I read in the AA article that there are also "regeneration additives" typically used by design for cars with a colder DPF at the rear of the car. Presumably they would also help a car with a colder DPF at the front of the car.

[Oneofthegreats]

What brand of fuel the customer use?
Does he/she use any fuel additives?
I would sample the fuel just to be sure.


It's an ex demo & only used BP Diesel. Owner only picked it up a couple of week's ago, so they've probably one put in one tank of fuel from where ever.

That's not going to clog up a DFP 90% in a couple of week's!

[gregozedobe]

Sounds like something to be added to the list of things to be checked when buying a s'hand TDI - "What is the current level of soot in the DPF ? "

IIRC it can be displayed on the dealer tool at least, maybe on VCDS as well.

In the demo car above, I would have thought that it should have been complaining (error msgs etc) about being blocked well before it was sold. Maybe it has DPF sensor problems ? Either that or the new owners have been flooring it at every opportunity in heavy traffic without any longer highway runs. I have heard of one TDI that regenerates every 150-200Km (but I think there is something wrong with it).

[DutchAussie]

Spot on about the regeneration cycle mate, as this is the only reason given in all the VW manuals I recently printed off ErWin. VW also suggests an upgraded fuel heater on their "bio" models.

250 downunder, go look up "dutchaussie" in the Caddy section, he's a bio burner from way back, and is currently doing a lot of research and fact finding about the VW's, most probably for his bio e-book he is due to complete in the next few months.

I'm on his "want one" list!

cogdog,

Is there any information about fuel heaters in erWin?
You mentioned my "Australian Biodiesel Handbook".
It is in the shop!
You will find more information on my Website below:

http://biodiesel-handbook.synthasite.com/

[bluey]

It's an ex demo & only used BP Diesel. Owner only picked it up a couple of week's ago, so they've probably one put in one tank of fuel from where ever.

That's not going to clog up a DFP 90% in a couple of week's!

Why not? (There would have to be a regeneration problem.)

Only high cetane diesel is low soot. Only BP ultimate or Caltex Vortex Diesel are commercially available as high cetane diesel fuels. Or you have to use a cetane improving additive.

On my non-DPF car, I have seen huge clouds of soot behind. Watch any commercial diesel vehicle - huge clouds of soot.

The DPF is a ceramic filter - exhaust gas has to flow *through* the ceramic material. It would be easy for clouds of soot to clog up the ceramic.

Perhaps the carbon residue burning fuel additives (eg Techron 5000) could be used to help burn out the soot from a DPF.

[gregozedobe]

Bluey is correct - I've heard of DPFs getting "full" after only a couple of hundred Kms of driving in heavy traffic. The VAG 125Kw TDI engine seems to be one of the most prone to DPF issues (particularly faulty sensors).

The DPF is more of a "trap" than a "filter". It captures most of the soot in the exhaust gases, then when it gets near full it goes into a special burn-off mode to burn the accumulated soot particles (IIRC you need to drive at a steady speed with the revs between 2,000 and 3,200 rpm). This uses more fuel, makes the engine run roughly and the exhaust gets hotter.

There are lots of threads around which go into great detail about DPFs, what they do and what sort of problems they have.

[mtaoz3]

Yesterday whilst driving in Melbourne, an Eos pulled in front of me from a freeway on-ramp. The driver floored it to get up to speed and a cloud of black smoke belched from the exhaust. I noticed that the whole back of the car had an oily black residue on it. It was my understanding that all TDI Eos had the Common Rail DPF engines. If so, then this one had a major problem. I would have thought that the DPF would clog up and the car would stop running if it was this bad. I suppose it could be the petrol TSI engine with a badly modified engine map (I have seen Nissan 200SX and similar belch black smoke from poor remaps).
Can any of the "VW Techies" comment on this? This EOS had the "straight out" exhausts as distinct from the turned down exhaust on the non DPF cars like non GT Golf V/Jetta.
Thanks, as I am curious about how this could happen.

[gldgti]

no matter what emissions equipment is fitted to a diesel vehicle - if you catch the engine off boost and give it the right throttle/load, you'll make it blow smoke. it could EASILY be down to the drivers habits. for instance, i can drive my car smoke free and fast. someone who doesnt 'know' my car will hop in and not know how to 'massage' the throttle in just the right way so as to keep from blowing smoke, and hey presto, theres a big cloud behind. its not that hard.

in order to make boost and eliminate smoke, you need to burn more fuel in a diesel.... theres no throttling, its all about how much fuel you add. if you step on hte gas, even the most sophisticated engine management CANT wait around forever for boost to come up a little bit so it can add fuel. it has to dump some fuel in there to get things moving. theres no way a DPF will cath it all, and theres no way around this without making a car dangerously slow in a situation created by the driver like that....

basically, whoever was driving should have been in a lower gear ;-)

[Greg Roles]

Still sounds odd, as I flog the bejesus out of my TDI and the exhaust tips are yet to even get black. Absolutely zero soot on the back end of my car, and I've never noticed smoke, like ever!

Smoke equals a lack of air in combustion.

[HiTorque]

It's an ex demo & only used BP Diesel. Owner only picked it up a couple of week's ago, so they've probably one put in one tank of fuel from where ever.

That's not going to clog up a DFP 90% in a couple of week's!

When did they introduce DPF? I might be wrong but I think my 2005 Golf TDI 2.0 doesn't have it.

[Greg Roles]

In PD engines only the GT TDI had one out of the 1.9 and 2.0 versions. The new CR engines all cop one now I believe??

[Buller_Scott]

In PD engines only the GT TDI had one out of the 1.9 and 2.0 versions. The new CR engines all cop one now I believe??

i think thats right- guy at vw dealership said all vw cr engines now have em.

which is a shame, because every car i get from now until im dead (they're all going to be vw's or land rovers) is going to be forced induction, and remapped.

i know vw is gonna begin serving up some pretty tasty twincharged options, but id prefer to stay diesel (i like being slightly different, which is why i drive a poofs car). how how how to get around dpf issues in the year to come.

[Transporter]

The life of DPF is 180,000km in many applications, so I think that our worries about the DPF is the worry for nothing. :)

[silvershadow]

i think thats right- guy at vw dealership said all vw cr engines now have em.

......... how how how to get around dpf issues in the year to come.



One thing we can be certain of is that work-arounds will come with time and experimentation by technically competent DIY owners.

I remember the introduction of the ADR Emission Controls for petrol vehicles in the 1970/1980 era and all the problems that were experienced with loss of performance, increased fuel consumption and lousy driveability. Work-arounds to overcome these problems for use by competent DIY owners began to surface within a year or two which reduced the severity of these problems until such time as the vehicle manufacturers developed the technology to minimise, eliminate then ultimately improve the degraded performance of emission-controlled engines.

My concern with my partner's DPF-equipped Eos is what is going to happen when we cannot obtain mineral diesel fuel and have to use bio-diesel with more than 5% bio content. I would expect VW are aware that bio-diesel with higher bio contents will be sold in Australia within a few years by government decree and that their current range of new vehicles will require modification to use this fuel if the current 5% limit is technically valid.

I am living in hope that a simple remap of the engine management system will solve this problem as my future plans include producing my own bio-diesel for my farm machinery and road vehicles [and possibly a boat if problems with marine use of bio-diesel can be minimised].

[Transporter]

This info is from MB Vito Service Booklet
4563

Why should I worry?

[Greg Roles]

I'd worry as I intend to keep the car well beyond this point, but then again I'll never be buying a new DPF, that's for sure. Ludicrous price tag.

Not so sure about being competent, but work around is indeed in progress at Cog HQ. Currently working out how to fool the sensors into believing all is well when the DPF is being bypassed.

[IBN]

If anyone is interested in the workings of a DPF, the following thread at tdiclub.com might be of interest if you're prepared to wade through it:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=229303
Looks like a number of things kick off a regen cycle, not only the pressure differential across the DPF. Maybe the folk with the VAG-COMs and laptops might be able to do some data collecting and head scratching.
Cheers,
Ivars

[Transporter]

IMO. Once there is enough diesels with DPF the tuning companies will solve the DPF issues for these with modded cars, it will be in the way of some mods and probably causing the problems, so they will have no option and come with some sort of software bypass or similar. And for these in unmodified cars DPF will most likely last life of the car, I mean predicted life something like 180,000km.

[Buller_Scott]

as we all may know, boys on the club can do egr delete/ minimize with vag com, but that seems to be for pre-pumpe duse cars.

but if the dpf is post-turbo, and all exhaust gas to pass through it, there wouldnt be any software solution for a dpf bypass, would there? wouldnt you have to physically get in the engine bay and have a play?

[Transporter]

as we all may know, boys on the club can do egr delete/ minimize with vag com, but that seems to be for pre-pumpe duse cars.

but if the dpf is post-turbo, and all exhaust gas to pass through it, there wouldnt be any software solution for a dpf bypass, would there? wouldnt you have to physically get in the engine bay and have a play?

Ok, the typical DPF would be fitted with 2 pressure sensors, temperature sensor and OXY sensor, so there is a lot of the info going in the ECU where it is all processed in the software. It should/will be a piece of cake for APR and similar. Of course that could be illegal. :)

[bluey]

[...] And for these in unmodified cars DPF will most likely last life of the car, I mean predicted life something like 180,000km.

Yes but the practical minimum life is the length of the warranty. After that YMMV.

I had a cat converter fail in a Mazda after about 100000km. Basically, the ceramic fell to bits and proceeded down the exhaust piecemeal over many months of intermittent undiagnosable engine power loss - until the cat blocked with a big chunk of ceramic and blew a hole out the side due to back pressure.

Tuning companies could turn on the afterburners on heavy acceleration to regen the DPF more frequently....the flames would be a good selling point.

[Buller_Scott]

Ok, the typical DPF would be fitted with 2 pressure sensors, temperature sensor and OXY sensor, so there is a lot of the info going in the ECU where it is all processed in the software. It should/will be a piece of cake for APR and similar. Of course that could be illegal. :)

but fun!

as long as chipping oilers remains practical and reliable, im there......

[Transporter]

but fun!

as long as chipping oilers remains practical and reliable, im there......

I couldn't agree more. :)

[dundee]

Hi, my name is Ray.
I have recently purchased a late 2006 golf 2.0 TDI for my wife. I am trying to ascertain whether the vehicle has a DPF fitted. The VW literature gives specs for the 2 litre engine with and without a DPF. Is it possible to tell by the engine code or do I have to remove covers and look for the dreaded bloated down pipe.
My interest stems from the fact that I would like to run Biodiesel in the vehicle. I produce my own biodiesel and run it in my F250 7.3L Powerstroke diesel. To date I have had no problems with the truck but have only recently progressed to running 100%. I pay particular attention to the purity of my biodiesel and control water content and PH very carefully. I filter it to 5 microns before it goes into the vehicle, and have an additional filter on the truck, pre lift pump.
Any help or comments about running Bio in the VW would be much appreciated.

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum, just recently got a Mk5 Golf TDI 2.0 08 built 09 complied.

I've been reading on here, trying to figure out whether the car has DPF fitted or not and so far I cannot tell. What exactly am I looking for? Does anyone have a picture of the DPF?

Called VW, the service department seemed to have no idea what I was talking about, and said that all VW mk5 tdi come with the DPF.

Thanks

Michel

[mtj007]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum, just recently got a Mk5 Golf TDI 2.0 08 built 09 complied.

I've been reading on here, trying to figure out whether the car has DPF fitted or not and so far I cannot tell. What exactly am I looking for? Does anyone have a picture of the DPF?


Is it a normal 2.0 TDI (Comfortline/Pacific model) or a GT TDI?
The normal 2.0 TDI Mk 5 doesn't have a Particulate filter while the GT TDI does.

[Greg Roles]

You're safe, but at MK6 level all diesels suffer even more complicated DPF's I believe.

[Transporter]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum, just recently got a Mk5 Golf TDI 2.0 08 built 09 complied.

I've been reading on here, trying to figure out whether the car has DPF fitted or not and so far I cannot tell. What exactly am I looking for? Does anyone have a picture of the DPF?

Called VW, the service department seemed to have no idea what I was talking about, and said that all VW mk5 tdi come with the DPF.

Thanks

Michel

Look in the owner’s manua where you will find the symbol for DPF warning lightl. Cars with DPF box have extra yellow warning light in the instruments, which you should also see when you turn the ignition ON; it goes OFF when you start (don't confuse it with the glow plugs indicator light).

[dundee]

Is it a normal 2.0 TDI (Comfortline/Pacific model) or a GT TDI?
The normal 2.0 TDI Mk 5 doesn't have a Particulate filter while the GT TDI does.


Thanks mtj007.

It is a Pacific 2.0 TDI.

Just found out that you can also tell by engine code whether you have the DPF or not.

BKD - no DPF (2.0 TDI 103KW)

BMM - DPF (2.0 TDI 103kw)

BMN - DPF (GT TDI)

Not sure if anyone can confirm the above information?

[dundee]

Look in the owner’s manua where you will find the symbol for DPF warning lightl. Cars with DPF box have extra yellow warning light in the instruments, which you should also see when you turn the ignition ON; it goes OFF when you start (don't confuse it with the glow plugs indicator light).

Thanks Transporter, checked on ignition, don't have the light, just the usual glow plugs indicator comes on.

[benough]

Thanks mtj007.

It is a Pacific 2.0 TDI.

Just found out that you can also tell by engine code whether you have the DPF or not.

BKD - no DPF (2.0 TDI 103KW)

BMM - DPF (2.0 TDI 103kw)

BMN - DPF (GT TDI)

Not sure if anyone can confirm the above information?

You are correct on the BKD and BMN codes as I have owned both.

[oracle1]

I know its not a vw but my mum's mazda 3 is down on power after 30,000k 2.0 CR TD and went into the dealer to quiz them. 60,-000 is the regen cycle and its done on a computer at the dealers and takes about an hour? The price for a new dpf? 6000 grand

[gregozedobe]

The price for a new dpf? 6000 grand

Are you sure you didn't add in a few (like about 3) zeroes in your (understandable) shock ? ;)

[Transporter]

Apparently TReg is 5,000 Euro. I don't know how much it would be in here.