Gotta love Tdi economy

[sparkie]

Just done my first accurately measured tank of fuel in a year since I got my 1996 Tdi, I got 915 kms, and then I chickened out an bought $20 of fuel as the needle was down into the red. Anyone know how much further I could have got? Is there a low fuel light on the dash? I reckon I would have got 100kms if I hadn't chickened out!!

[STV4SYT]

Depends how u were driving it. Ive goten 550 from a tank before it was at 0 and ive also gotten 940 so its impossible to say.

[gregozedobe]

I got 940 and 991 Kms from two tankfulls on the weekend. I could have gotten to 1000Km easily, as I only put 71 and 74 litres into an 80 litre tank, and it wasn't a very economical drive (I had a lot of Kms to do in a short time, so was sitting on the posted limit most of the time).

[benough]

In my TDI GT Sport when the DTE says 0km I can do an extra 20k's. I am yet to do a full tank on the highway but I reckon 1000km is very possible

[Volvo Driver]

Our 95 is lucky to get to an empty tank at 800km's nowdays, needs it's injectors rebuilt I reckon, prolly the pump too. But we used to go over 1100km's on a tank, carry a jerry can in the boot with 10litres of diesel and find out how far you can get.

[Pumpe-Düse]

I just got my 2008 Polo 1.9 TDI a few days ago and so far its done about 205km on the first quarter of the tank (11.25L). If it keeps going like that, that'll be 820km or 5.48L/100km.

Though this is my first ever tank so I assume I'll be able to better it in the future! :biggrin:

[Eureka]

The most I've ever got out of a single tank is just over 1,200km. It was a return trip from Brisbane to Coffs with all the family on board (5) including luggage for the weekend. This was in my 2.0 TDi Golf (soon to be upgraded to 125kW TDi Passat wagon).

Makes me laugh whenever I hear people say it's not worth buying a diesel car because it costs an extra 20c/litre over unleaded (more like 10c/litre over premium - which most cars need nowadays anyway). They will also tell you how many years it will take you to recoup the extra $$s spent in the premium you paid for buying a diesel car too...but they never take into account the higher resale figure!!

Also, my experience has been that with diesel cars it is fairly easy to achieve (or better) the fuel economy figures stated by the manufacturer...but with petrol cars it never is.

[TDI Dude]

Some pretty good figures there guys... recently managed to drive from Brisbane to Sydney on one tank of diesel. Stopping off at Murwillumbah, Coffs Harbour & Taree. Total Distance 980km's and about 100ml of diesel left in the tank. I admittedly dont travel EXACTLY to the speed limit at all times but none the less was very happy with that result. Geez I love diesels, never going back to this thing they call gasoline :driver:

[gldgti]

Just had a weekend away and have got the best from the little mk3 than ever i have yet - at 1/3rd tank left (55l tank) im currenly on 590km...

my car isnt TDI though, its IDI, so there ya go I already have a 8% theoretical thermodynamic penalty..... who cares! its great.

any argument about diesels being inferior to petrols is rubbish, hehehe!

[Pumpe-Düse]

Okay been through my first ever full tank with my new 1.9 TDI (1300km on the clock), 90-95% city driving... 6.27L/100km.

So is that any good?

[gregozedobe]

It is if you think it is :) Driving conditions and driving style can make a huge difference to fuel consumption.

Was it calculated on distance travelled and amount of diesel you put in, or are you believing the notoriously optimistic VW trip computer ?

[Pumpe-Düse]

It is if you think it is :) Driving conditions and driving style can make a huge difference to fuel consumption.

Was it calculated on distance travelled and amount of diesel you put in, or are you believing the notoriously optimistic VW trip computer ?

The Polo 1.9 TDI hasn't got a trip computer... it was distance travelled & litres of diesel put in.

[mr.damage]

Okay been through my first ever full tank with my new 1.9 TDI (1300km on the clock), 90-95% city driving... 6.27L/100km.
So is that any good?

Its not bad for a new engine. It will keep getting better. When min had done around 50000 I went on a trip to canberra and got 960 out of 42 lt (nearly had to push it into the servo) . That was on 100 % biodiesel with the aircon on half the time.

[rodrocco]

As per the Combi display 19 hrs 29 mins of driving to do 909.1 klm at 47kph. Filled up with 52.49l (2.51 litres left so add another 35klm) to get 5.5l/100klm. 90% of it was metro driving, now have 18k on the car, so me thinks 1000 klm from a tank will soon be a breeze.

[THR]

Hmmm,

Everyone seems to be getting much better economy than me.

My TDI 2.0l DSG Comfortline has done just under 3,000km and has an average of 8.6l/100km (according to the trip meter). That obviously includes the running in driving.

We do a lot of round town driving and usually for trips, average around 8-9l/100km.

Today though I went on a longer (actually onto the M5) and got around 6l/100km (for the 40km that I travelled, which did include start/stop city driving as well).

Does anyone else that drives primarily city get around 8l/100km on average?

Admittedly I'm sitting in traffic/start stopping a lot so that may account for it.

[THR]

Seems that my average speed is 22km over the course of those 3,000km - so that may explain the 8.6l/100km average.

Damn Sydney traffic! Need to go on a long distance trip.

[yddiz]

I just put in 72lts in my T5 LWB 2.5Lt TDI and got 842km in city driving not bad I thought

[Gigitt]

Before my mods my best recorded was a trip Sydney to ACT and back + Sydney City driving = 1250km. I filled up with 53lt.

Now with all my mods...
I get 850=900km in the Sydney City with heavy right foot.

Long distance Trips I have not run dry, but quite easily get 1/2 tank = 600km.
This is with a fully loaded car boot and full back seat with 2 in the car.

1996 Golf Mk3 TDI

[Pumpe-Düse]

Just filled up my 2nd tank in the my Polo 1.9 TDI (which is now 1700km old), 5.67L/100km average. ~90% city/urban driving.

Now that its run-in according to the VW book (they say 1500km, and its under warranty, so their word goes) I'll take it on the freeway to go to work instead of going the long way. Interesting to see what it'll start returing now...

:D

[gldgti]

well, i have been tweaking my little IDI again, and last tank i acheived 5.8l/100km in my mk3 mixed city/hwy driving.

just goes to show you dont need a computer to get good economy.

[Greg Roles]

Silicon envy?:biggrin:

[gldgti]

:-D :-D :-D

nah, i'm a luddite!

[smithy010]

There is never silicon envy in a diesel, i'm sure!

Gotta love springs and levers!

[sparkie]

Thanks for hijacking guys.

I managed another 75 kms or so this time before chickening out, again without really driving economically, air-con on occasionally. Now I'm going to try to get 1100kms out of it! Still wondering whether a further warning light comes on when it gets REALLY low anyone know?

[Pumpe-Düse]

Thanks for hijacking guys.

I managed another 75 kms or so this time before chickening out, again without really driving economically, air-con on occasionally. Now I'm going to try to get 1100kms out of it! Still wondering whether a further warning light comes on when it gets REALLY low anyone know?

Just make sure not to run out or its a bit of a PITA...

[neil]

Okay been through my first ever full tank with my new 1.9 TDI (1300km on the clock), 90-95% city driving... 6.27L/100km.

So is that any good?

Are you sure this is right?? did you refill at 1300km?? and how many litres.

Not the best at math but if you have the golf with 55 litre tank than 55 divided by your distance 1300km X 100 should give a little over 4.2 L/100 You should have done better than 6.27/100km for 1300km.

If you have the Polo I think it has a 50 litre tank so this would be under 4 litres......Not sure about the caddy tank.

[gldgti]

i think he means he only has 1300km on the car in total (ie not run in yet)

i'd say anywhere between 5.5 and 6.5l/100km is "normal" for a new tdi

[Pumpe-Düse]

Are you sure this is right?? did you refill at 1300km?? and how many litres.

Not the best at math but if you have the golf with 55 litre tank than 55 divided by your distance 1300km X 100 should give a little over 4.2 L/100 You should have done better than 6.27/100km for 1300km.

If you have the Polo I think it has a 50 litre tank so this would be under 4 litres......Not sure about the caddy tank.


There were 1300km on the car. The tank is 45L. It did somewhere close to 720km from that tank.

[WEDEL.1]

Makes me laugh whenever I hear people say it's not worth buying a diesel car because it costs an extra 20c/litre over unleaded (more like 10c/litre over premium - which most cars need nowadays anyway). They will also tell you how many years it will take you to recoup the extra $$s spent in the premium you paid for buying a diesel car too...but they never take into account the higher resale figure!!

You make a very good point(s) here.

We were going in for a Polo 1.6, 6-speed auto, and even signed on the dotted line. When I saw the price, with all the options, I looked at the 1.9 TDI Golf. I did the sums on the Polo & Golf, at a price difference of 0.25 C/L, and the Golf was still the better buy.

Maris

[Pumpe-Düse]

Makes me laugh whenever I hear people say it's not worth buying a diesel car because it costs an extra 20c/litre over unleaded (more like 10c/litre over premium - which most cars need nowadays anyway). They will also tell you how many years it will take you to recoup the extra $$s spent in the premium you paid for buying a diesel car too...but they never take into account the higher resale figure!!

Also, my experience has been that with diesel cars it is fairly easy to achieve (or better) the fuel economy figures stated by the manufacturer...but with petrol cars it never is.


Going from a 2001 RenaultSport Clio 172 (2.0 DOHC 16v petrol, 124kW 200Nm, 1035kg, 5sp manual) to my 2008 VW Polo 1.9 TDI (as everyone shold know, 1.9 SOHC 8v Diesel Turbo, 74kW 240Nm, 1222kg, 5sp manual)... with the Clio's old consumption figures (7.8-8.0/100km avg per tank) to this car's (5.67/100 best so far, 6.32/100 worst, average around the 6.0 mark) and the current price difference of 98 RON vs Diesel... it costs me roughly the same to run as the Clio did. In fact, if I were to be an avid watcher of the cheaper days with petrol, the Clio would be 50 cents cheaper (its nothing I know) a week to run.

Not quite what I imagined it would be like, and a fair bit off the little sticker in the window that said 5.0L/100km but hey, doesn't bother me.

Can't wait to do a highway trip in it, Clio's best on one of those (Sydney - Canberra - Sydney) was 5.2L/100km. I wonder if the Polo can better it...

[gregozedobe]

PD, a few questions for you -

Are the fuel consumption figure calculated by the full tank to full tank method ? Figures from trip computers aren't always accurate.

Is the traffic and driving style the same ? To get the best economy out of a diesel requires a different driving technique (usually a lot less revs). Have you been guilty of enjoying the surge of torque in your Polo a little too often ?

The Polo is 200Kg heavier than your clio, and it uses fuel to move mass.

How many Kms have you done in your Polo so far ? It might (probably will) get better economy once it gets more than 15-20,000Km up.

Do you do lots of short trips where the engine is still warming up for much of the distance ? My TDI gets relatively poor economy for the first 10 Km of a trip, it seems to use a lot of fuel just to warm the engine up. Once it is properly warm the fuel consumption reduces significantly.

Stop-start traffic seems to drag my economy down a bit too, but flowing traffic is much better.

[Pumpe-Düse]

PD, a few questions for you -

Are the fuel consumption figure calculated by the full tank to full tank method ? Figures from trip computers aren't always accurate.

Is the traffic and driving style the same ? To get the best economy out of a diesel requires a different driving technique (usually a lot less revs). Have you been guilty of enjoying the surge of torque in your Polo a little too often ?

The Polo is 200Kg heavier than your clio, and it uses fuel to move mass.

How many Kms have you done in your Polo so far ? It might (probably will) get better economy once it gets more than 15-20,000Km up.

Do you do lots of short trips where the engine is still warming up for much of the distance ? My TDI gets relatively poor economy for the first 10 Km of a trip, it seems to use a lot of fuel just to warm the engine up. Once it is properly warm the fuel consumption reduces significantly.

Stop-start traffic seems to drag my economy down a bit too, but flowing traffic is much better.

The Polo 1.9 TDI does not have a trip computer, so it is the full tank to full tank method.

Traffic and driving style has not changed. Except maybe that to do certain overtaking manouvres I don't downshift, don't need to.

In the Clio (124kW @ 6250rpm, 200Nm @ 5400rpm, 7250rpm limit) I drove like this

1st-2nd = 3500rpm
2nd-3rd = 3200rpm
3rd-4th = 3200rpm
4th-5th = 80km/h

Cruising gears were 50km/h in 3rd, 60 & 70 in 4th, 80+ in 5th.

In the Polo (74kW @ 4000rpm, 240Nm @ 1800-2400rpm, 4500rpm redline)

1st-2nd = 2500rpm
2nd-3rd = 2200rpm
3rd-4th = 2200rpm
4th-5th = 80km/h

Same cruising gears as before.

Most of my driving is about 70% highway, 20% city. And no, I don't do short trips. My shortest average trip is 30km. Its at 3400km now, had it for 3.5 weeks or thereabouts.

Best consumption figure to date = 5.67L/100km, worst = 6.32L/100km. Last tank got me 5.82.

[Eureka]

Going from a 2001 RenaultSport Clio 172 (2.0 DOHC 16v petrol, 124kW 200Nm, 1035kg, 5sp manual) to my 2008 VW Polo 1.9 TDI (as everyone shold know, 1.9 SOHC 8v Diesel Turbo, 74kW 240Nm, 1222kg, 5sp manual)... with the Clio's old consumption figures (7.8-8.0/100km avg per tank) to this car's (5.67/100 best so far, 6.32/100 worst, average around the 6.0 mark) and the current price difference of 98 RON vs Diesel... it costs me roughly the same to run as the Clio did. In fact, if I were to be an avid watcher of the cheaper days with petrol, the Clio would be 50 cents cheaper (its nothing I know) a week to run.

Not quite what I imagined it would be like, and a fair bit off the little sticker in the window that said 5.0L/100km but hey, doesn't bother me.

Can't wait to do a highway trip in it, Clio's best on one of those (Sydney - Canberra - Sydney) was 5.2L/100km. I wonder if the Polo can better it...

Hmm, interesting. Not saying that you're wrong but I can't see how the fuel costs are similar on the figures you've quoted? If the Polo's average is 6.0 and the Clio's average is (say) 7.9 then...the Clio uses 31% more fuel than the Polo. Therefore, the cost of diesel would have to be 31% higher than PULP for the fuel costs to be the same. I'm unsure of the latest PULP price...but if we say it's $1.65 then diesel would have to be $2.16 for the fuel costs to be the same.

I've not given this too much thought so I could be wrong - but this is how it appears to me?

PS Love the choice of the Renault Clio Sport...thought about getting one once but couldn't find a good one locally.

[Pumpe-Düse]

Hmm, interesting. Not saying that you're wrong but I can't see how the fuel costs are similar on the figures you've quoted? If the Polo's average is 6.0 and the Clio's average is (say) 7.9 then...the Clio uses 31% more fuel than the Polo. Therefore, the cost of diesel would have to be 31% higher than PULP for the fuel costs to be the same. I'm unsure of the latest PULP price...but if we say it's $1.65 then diesel would have to be $2.16 for the fuel costs to be the same.

I've not given this too much thought so I could be wrong - but this is how it appears to me?

PS Love the choice of the Renault Clio Sport...thought about getting one once but couldn't find a good one locally.

I'm a little underwhelmed as far as the whole economy hype thing, depending on prices it can be from the same $ per week to run to $5 Polo's way. Not the difference I was expecting.

And yeah, the Clio 172 was awesome. If only its engine wasn't destroyed by a shoddy mechanic... (long story) :frown:

[gregozedobe]

Most of my driving is about 70% highway, 20% city. And no, I don't do short trips. My shortest average trip is 30km. Its at 3400km now, had it for 3.5 weeks or thereabouts.

Best consumption figure to date = 5.67L/100km, worst = 6.32L/100km. Last tank got me 5.82.

Hmmm, I'm not that familiar with Polos myself, but everything I've read (including Golfs and Octavias with the 1.9 TDI motor) suggest that under your driving conditions your fuel consumption should be a fair bit better than that, along the lines of 4-5 L/100Km, so I can understand your disappointment.

Your engine is still relatively new, and should improve with more Kms, but you don't usually get a huge increase over time.

Are there any other signs of something wrong ? (excessive oil usage, engine warms up very quickly or very slowly, black smoke from the exhaust under medium acceleration, engine running roughly, poor performance, DPF/engine light displaying etc.)

I think I'd be taking it back to the dealer and asking them to check on the engine anyway, as I get the feeling something may be not quite right.

[Pumpe-Düse]

Hmmm, I'm not that familiar with Polos myself, but everything I've read (including Golfs and Octavias with the 1.9 TDI motor) suggest that under your driving conditions your fuel consumption should be a fair bit better than that, along the lines of 4-5 L/100Km, so I can understand your disappointment.

Your engine is still relatively new, and should improve with more Kms, but you don't usually get a huge increase over time.

Are there any other signs of something wrong ? (excessive oil usage, engine warms up very quickly or very slowly, black smoke from the exhaust under medium acceleration, engine running roughly, poor performance, DPF/engine light displaying etc.)

I think I'd be taking it back to the dealer and asking them to check on the engine anyway, as I get the feeling something may be not quite right.

Engine doesn't make funny noises. So far as I know its not using any oil (better not be at 3400km old!), gets the odd bit of smoke from the exhaust under full throttle, performs well, doesn't run rough, no engine light... so I dunno?

[Preen59]

Engine doesn't make funny noises. So far as I know its not using any oil (better not be at 3400km old!), gets the odd bit of smoke from the exhaust under full throttle, performs well, doesn't run rough, no engine light... so I dunno?

Wait till you've done 10,000km or so. Your fuel economy will improve gradually up until about 10 thou. That's what i've found with my 07 Caddy 1.9TDI.

I've actually just 'chipped' it, with a TDI (Turbo Diesel International, i think is the name of the company) module, that i got from Guy Harding, while he was offloading some NLA stock for really cheap (cost me $225 to my workshop door!). I installed it monday last week.

I went from Orange to Sydney yesterday for the VWW cruise and averaged, on the trip down, 4.7L/100km. Mostly sitting on around 110km/h, aircon off apart from around 15 mins or so. I got 4.8 or so on the way home and around 5.1 average for the whole day. Which i think is pretty good considering there was 100k's or so of full throttle etc etc.

Before i chipped it i used to get around 5.4/5.5 average on a trip down and back to sydney.

So apart from my fuel economy info, the point is, yours should improve as the Caddy was similar when it was new.

Hope that helps, or is atleast interesting. :)

[Russ59]

I'm not sure if they filled the first tank right up from the dealership or not but I have just refilled the GT Sport for the 1st time and I am absolutely thrilled with the fuel economy. On my calculations not the computer it has averaged 6.97L / 100k's with a mixture of hwy and city driving. I haven't been thrashing it but there has still been a fair bit of spirited driving involved, one things for certain, if I'd been driving the XR6 the same way I would have been at the bowser a whole lot sooner and pumping the fuel in for a lot longer. And from what I've read so far it stands to get even better economy :eek: :driver: :biggrin:

[GoLfMan]

i just got 5.2L/100km out of my last tank on my chipped Polo TDI

:D woot for power and economy!

[Pumpe-Düse]

I just did an interesting drive... Sydney - Canberra - Sydney. With some driving (at night with no traffic) around Sydney and Canberra included. It did 4.94L/100km. My old Clio did 5.2L/100km on the exact same trip (I do it often).

Engine has 7200km on it now and seems to sit between 5.6-5.9L/100km combined if I drive like grandma all the time. Any time I do anything fun like a run down the Royal National Park or something... it jumps to the 6.3 mark for that tank.

The economy is *ok* but not as impressive as I had first thought (from browsing forums such as this one). Can't say I'm completley sold on the Diesel thing. Working out how much I spent weekly, the Polo sets me back about $5900/year on fuel. An LPG Falcon, worked out at 20L/100km (being pessimistic here, they do use less then that) would cost me $3800/year on fuel and be significantly faster and significantly cheaper to service.

Can't wait to get back into a petrol powered sports car. Though there is the odd Diesel car that I'd love to own... Audi R8 V12 TDI anybody? :D

[mr_walker]

This is an interesting read:

http://communityhosting.net/tdiclub/index.php/Fuel_Economy

Cheers,

Walker

[PaulM]

Cheers Walker.

Some interesting info there - though the "breaking in" info contradicts VW's own manual. So who to believe? there are 2 definite schools of thought here - one is take first 1500k easy and then go for it (mine lol) while the other is namby pamby the engine til you die of old age :P

[mr_walker]

I know - the break in method debate has been done to death, and is over here (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=12575). This is based on the Motoman method, which is here (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm). Pick a method and go with it I say.:???:

What I found interesting in the TDIClub article is that giving it a bootful around the 1750-1800 torque band is the most economical way to get up to speed. The link between cruising at low revs and EGR clogging your intake was also a new one for me.

[PaulM]

OK have done 4000K on my baby now - and I LOVE the economy. Whoever reckons or says it's imaginary are on something :D

My previous car - 2005 Magna VRX. 1 tank of fuel per week.
This baby - same K's, same driving, 1/4 tank for the week! So at this stage:

Magna to fill ~$90 x 4 = $360 per month
TDI to fill $95 x 1 = $90

$360 - 90 = $270
$270 x 12 = 3240 savings per year

Looks to be some savings there.....

[mikinoz]

I am getting near 800 a tank in the inner sydney cycle.

Going to be hard to go back to a petrol car really...

[Spoddy]

OK have done 4000K on my baby now - and I LOVE the economy. Whoever reckons or says it's imaginary are on something :D

My previous car - 2005 Magna VRX. 1 tank of fuel per week.
This baby - same K's, same driving, 1/4 tank for the week! So at this stage:

Magna to fill ~$90 x 4 = $360 per month
TDI to fill $95 x 1 = $90

$360 - 90 = $270
$270 x 12 = 3240 savings per year

Looks to be some savings there.....

We need to save lots - the joy of all that grunt wears the tyres out :) 25,000 and not far to the wear indicators...

[neil]

We need to save lots - the joy of all that grunt wears the tyres out :) 25,000 and not far to the wear indicators...

Spoddy why not look into the roll resistance tyres like the new Audi A3 has
just come out with.

[Russ59]

I have just over 2000 k's all up now on the beast. Included in that is 2 return trips to Canberra (roughly 450 k's return each trip) First trip cruising at 120 kmh with bursts up to 150 kmh on occasions (very occasionally :biggrin:) 4 adults, air con. on for half the trip, refilled and calculated / fuel usage of 6.6 L / 100 k's. Second trip same speeds and frequency, 2 adults on the trip down, 3 adults returning, air con off, refilled and calculated / fuel usage 6.18 L / 100 k's. :eek: :bowdown: :biggrin:

[sixtyniners]

Hi guys,
have just completed my 1st 1000km with my new 07/08 golf and i had still not refueled. when i bought it it had about 5 litres and i filled it and its still going we do lots of highway driving and im so impressed with how far 50 litres is going.
ted:driver:

[mr_walker]

My Jetta just ticked over 10,000km's today! Economy has dropped from 6.3-6.4 to about 5.9-6.0 as the engine breaks in.

Loving it!

[pjbplumbing@bigpond.com]

You private TDI owners should all seriously consider having LPG added to your cars.
You will increase performance, improve consumption figures, and extend the range you can travel on one tank. Oil life will be extended also.

I say private owners, as Govt rebate only applies to private vehicles.
Rebate is $2000.00
Conversion cost between $3800 and $4600 depending on what system you install.
Average performance figures range from 20 - 30%, ditto for fuel ltr/100.
Trucks and buses are converting to it, so it has to be the way to go.

I wanna do my T4 TDI, ASAP, but it is commercial registered and therefore no rebate? Does that make sense... NO? So I have to pay the lot.

Peter

[Logzy]

You private TDI owners should all seriously consider having LPG added to your cars.
You will increase performance, improve consumption figures, and extend the range you can travel on one tank. Oil life will be extended also.

I say private owners, as Govt rebate only applies to private vehicles.
Rebate is $2000.00
Conversion cost between $3800 and $4600 depending on what system you install.
Average performance figures range from 20 - 30%, ditto for fuel ltr/100.
Trucks and buses are converting to it, so it has to be the way to go.

I wanna do my T4 TDI, ASAP, but it is commercial registered and therefore no rebate? Does that make sense... NO? So I have to pay the lot.

Peter

No thankyou.

[Pumpe-Düse]

No thankyou.

He's actually right you know. LPG injection into Diesel engines is nothing but good. More power, more fuel economy, increased service life. Its an absolute win win.

[Russ59]

Where are you supposed to put the gas tank ?? Good idea but it won't be suitable for a lot of people who just have enough boot space in their Golf's and Polo's now !! I was looking at converting my BA Falcon to LPG before I bought the Golf. That had a pretty generous boot area which would have been greatly effected once converted and the tank went in, they had the option of the spare wheel well tank also, but then you have to find somewhere for the spare and the tank only had a small capacity as well !! The conversion would be OK for the Touareg and some of the bigger VW models. I'm happy with my economy and power anyway and with fuel figures around 6 - 6.5 L / 100 k's that'll do me for now. :)

Russ

[Logzy]

Where are you supposed to put the gas tank ?? Good idea but it won't be suitable for a lot of people who just have enough boot space in their Golf's and Polo's now !! I was looking at converting my BA Falcon to LPG before I bought the Golf. That had a pretty generous boot area which would have been greatly effected once converted and the tank went in, they had the option of the spare wheel well tank also, but then you have to find somewhere for the spare and the tank only had a small capacity as well !! The conversion would be OK for the Touareg and some of the bigger VW models. I'm happy with my economy and power anyway and with fuel figures around 6 - 6.5 L / 100 k's that'll do me for now. :)

Russ

Agree, The last thing i want is a gas tank in my golf and im very happy with the economy.
The other reason for no thanks is that the price of gas conversions has dramatically jumped in price since the government rebate and im not about to pay these greedy installers that have raised their prices of a conversion.
The main winners from the rebate are the installers.
Also the price of gas will rise once excise is applied by the government.
The government were not silly in offering the rebates, get more poeple on gas cause they will get their money back in the excise when its applied anyway.

[Volvo Driver]

He's actually right you know. LPG injection into Diesel engines is nothing but good. More power, more fuel economy, increased service life. Its an absolute win win.

Why an extended service life? I'd rather not risk it and change my oil often.

[Tim]

Why an extended service life? I'd rather not risk it and change my oil often.

the term "service life" refers to how long something will last. Not how long you service it

[pjbplumbing@bigpond.com]

Oh where, oh where does the conservative attitude come from?
Answers:
Cause the LPG addition to a DIESEL, (not petrol) uses only a small amount of gas per cycle, you only need a small tank for the LPG, usually around 20% of the cars main fuel tank; therefore,
a 30ltr tank is more than enough for most applications; the actual holding capacity of that tank is around 27ltrs. This tank is quite small by comparision to most petrol/LPG tanks - around 600mm x 180mm.
For those with performance in mind this would have to be a "must have" addition, as the motor burns basically all of the fuel/air mix, instead of the usual 70-80% most diesel motors achieve. This is why the oil last longer and the emmisions are much less. A LPG diesel will basically not produce soot - soot is the unburnt fuel escaping.
There are plenty of good web sites out there if you need convincing....
Or put it this way: I foresee a time soon; in the next ten years, when all diesel motors will be using LPG. Thats how good it is.
But I can hear it now... "what colour do the cylinders come in"?
Will my sub-woofer still fit in the boot?
Does that mean we need to use 2 different bowsers to fill up?
What about my BBQ?
so on and on...:duh:
Peter

[Spoddy]

I have requested info from .......

Here are the details submitted by the website user:
Name: Steve
Vehicle: 2007 Golf 2.0l TDI
Email:
State: NSW
Comments: Can conversions be done to a Golf? Does installation impact on manufacturer's warranty?
Where would the gas bottle go in a Golf?
Cost for a Golf?

Lets see what happens.

[Russ59]

It all sounds great but all the vehicles that are shown or mentioned in the applications are either 4wd or trucks like (F100 / F250) so there is plenty of clearance underneath for a gas cylinder. If you can show me an application on a Golf or Polo where it doesn't take up half the boot or reduce the under carriage clearance then I would probably consider it in the future. I am not into 12 inch sub woofers and other fully sick devices in the boot, so that's not part of the equation, but I do need the boot space I have and wouldn't be prepared to sacrifice it with a permanently fixed gas cylinder regardless of the obvious benefits. Excellent idea though but perhaps not for the small diesel cars, unless you don't require any boot space.


Russ

[pjbplumbing@bigpond.com]

I don't know for sure if any fitters are doing small wiz bangers for LPG conversion: most are simply run off their feet doing large diesels.
As far as taking up boot space I see no more of a problem than the Ewe -beaut hybrid electric cars we have to have now - with a boot full of deadly corrosive, heavy, pollutant batteries? As I said - the LPG cylinder is very small and in fact a clever installer could use 2x smaller cylinders which could be fitted up against a wheel arch or some place. The 2x cylinders combine could make say 25 litres of LPG; which would be enough for most small cars.

[Pumpe-Düse]

It all sounds great but all the vehicles that are shown or mentioned in the applications are either 4wd or trucks like (F100 / F250) so there is plenty of clearance underneath for a gas cylinder. If you can show me an application on a Golf or Polo where it doesn't take up half the boot or reduce the under carriage clearance then I would probably consider it in the future. I am not into 12 inch sub woofers and other fully sick devices in the boot, so that's not part of the equation, but I do need the boot space I have and wouldn't be prepared to sacrifice it with a permanently fixed gas cylinder regardless of the obvious benefits. Excellent idea though but perhaps not for the small diesel cars, unless you don't require any boot space.


Russ

For those who don't need the boot space (yours truly), its a great thing. If I end up modifying the Polo TDI instead of replacing it with a proper sports car, I'll probably go for LPG-Diesel. Don't care if it takes up the entire boot, I can count on one hand how many times I've used my boot to carry something bigger then a single, small shopping bag in the last 3 years on one hand.

[pjbplumbing@bigpond.com]

Well said Pumpe,
It amazes me how people moan about boot space - but in reality most dont use the boot..most are just kid fetchers and glorified taxis.
Even making a false floor across the base, using a sheet of plywood (made in Australia of course), would solve most issues?
I see no arguement why any one couldnt have it done on any car - it can and is being done on stationary Diesel motors, trucks, & buses, so what makes little buzz boxes any different?

[Russ59]

Well said Pumpe,
It amazes me how people moan about boot space - but in reality most dont use the boot..most are just kid fetchers and glorified taxis.
Even making a false floor across the base, using a sheet of plywood (made in Australia of course), would solve most issues?
I see no arguement why any one couldnt have it done on any car - it can and is being done on stationary Diesel motors, trucks, & buses, so what makes little buzz boxes any different?

Having an opinion is one thing moaning is something entirely different. I agree that it is a great idea (gas conversion) and if I didn't require my boot space (which I do use on a daily basis) it probably wouldn't bother me having a gas cylinder in there. Maybe down the track I may consider it but in the meantime it's just not practical for myself and probably many others so rather than calling people moaners why not keep comments like that to yourself and just stick to the topic !!!

Russ

[Logzy]

Well said Pumpe,
It amazes me how people moan about boot space - but in reality most dont use the boot..most are just kid fetchers and glorified taxis.
Even making a false floor across the base, using a sheet of plywood (made in Australia of course), would solve most issues?
I see no arguement why any one couldnt have it done on any car - it can and is being done on stationary Diesel motors, trucks, & buses, so what makes little buzz boxes any different?

If youre that passionate about every diesel owner installing LPG then Im sure you've got your 911 booked in for a gas conversion too.
After all, petrol engines can run on gas too and im sure you can find somewhere for the gas tank so why wouldnt you.!

[gldgti]

settle down fella's its all in the name of economy. play nice.

[Greg Roles]

I've been looking at powerups and think it's the way to go. I don't give a rats about economy, I want the herbs! Economy is an added bonus. One of those cool small donut tanks in the spare wheel well, or a small tank in the place of that ludicrously large rear muff on the Golf is the berries. That way I can keep my fully sick sub and amp setup I'm about to install, and keep the stock boot. Best of everything! :) Add to that my brother is planning on getting his installers licence adds to the appeal....

The concept of complete combustion, and little soot is awesome, as it may allow removal of the DPF without adding to the pollution or visible emissions I have to breathe in when I cycle. That then frees up the exhaust restriction, for yet more imprezza slaying torque.

Shyte, if you could add Nitrous at low revs and get power, I'd have already ordered a kit, regardless of it's legallity....:biggrin:

I'm just in awe of how great the stock car is, and my long term plan is to convert it to bio, and have an additional "on demand" LPG system. I'm playing with the thing in the meantime within reason, with the aim of setting up the engine for this longer term plan. Overdue on a few projects at the moment actually!

THEN...I can chip it...:driver:

[pjbplumbing@bigpond.com]

I have already looked at converting the Porsche.
Two problems exsit;
1/ Location of gas cylinder
2/ Using hot engine oil to heat the converter - water pumpers use coolant to heat the liquid LPG, converting it to gas. I have yet to see if anyone makes or uses a converter using oil?
Cogdoc,
You sound pretty keen ... your would make a good project to cover here?
Good for you.
Years ago, my FJ60 (landcruiser), I did an engine swap; removed the hopeless Toytota 6 and fitted a 350 V8 Chevy. I then ran this on LPG wholly, no petrol. Oh what a feeling -- Chevy. What a buzz that was!
Such a transformation.

[Logzy]

I have already looked at converting the Porsche.
Two problems exsit;
1/ Location of gas cylinder
2/ Using hot engine oil to heat the converter - water pumpers use coolant to heat the liquid LPG, converting it to gas. I have yet to see if anyone makes or uses a converter using oil?
Cogdoc,
You sound pretty keen ... your would make a good project to cover here?
Good for you.
Years ago, my FJ60 (landcruiser), I did an engine swap; removed the hopeless Toytota 6 and fitted a 350 V8 Chevy. I then ran this on LPG wholly, no petrol. Oh what a feeling -- Chevy. What a buzz that was!
Such a transformation.

I did the same with a VK Calais i had years ago, ran the 308 on straight gas with a Gas Research system, I had the heads done and a gas cam in it and it was sweet.

[gldgti]

anything illegal about setting it up yourself? the hardest part would surely be figuring out the filling system right?

[GoLfMan]

anything illegal about setting it up yourself? the hardest part would surely be figuring out the filling system right?

im not sure legalities, but insurance may have something to do with it?!

i like the idea of more power, i love my TDI and anything that gives it even more oomph and economy is a winner for me

[pjbplumbing@bigpond.com]

Good Question gld,
Here in the land of Oz - no we cant do it our selves, has to be installed by a licenced auto spanner. The vehicle must then be stamped with what amounts to a compliance plate. The cylinder also needs to be inspected every few years - cant remember how often.
I know in England you can fit a full system complete - odd; as I use to think when I lived in UK that England was a "Nanny State".. I am wondering about here now????
The Diesel conversion- depending on the system you use - is actually easier to install than a petrol/LPG system. Because, some of the diesel conversions use just the gas coming off out of the LPG cylinder to inject into the motor - which shows just how little gas these systems use - almost nothing.
Whereas a petrol/LPG uses a large volume of LPG and so needs to heat the liquid LPG to quickly convert it back to a gas.
So this means some of the Diesel conversions have very few parts.
One such typical system is here (http://www.pakauto.com.au/diesel-gas-conversions.php)
A more elaborate conversion using sequential injection system can be found here (http://www.gastek.com.au/cgi-bin/engine.pl?Page=page.html&Rec=3)
It is this system that I would prefer myself; more expensive but has a lot more features, ie; use the brake or off the gas pedal and the LPG is switched off.
Doesn't sound much but it means your gas supply is extended further, making your range even greater. This system also uses LPG at idle; making the idle smoother and transition from standing start better. And there are more features, etc, etc. But this system uses a converter (heater) to heat the liquid LPG.

[Spoddy]

I have requested info from ....

Here are the details submitted by the website user:
Name: Steve
Vehicle: 2007 Golf 2.0l TDI
Email:
State: NSW
Comments: Can conversions be done to a Golf? Does installation impact on manufacturer's warranty?
Where would the gas bottle go in a Golf?
Cost for a Golf?

Lets see what happens.


Well they are not very good at selling their products....


Pricing starts from $4500 inc GST. We can fit a tank under the rear (but I
think we need to mod the exhaust).

I do not know VW's warranty policy.


If diesel gas is easier to install they are just ripping us off at $4500

[Logzy]

Well they are not very good at selling their products....




If diesel gas is easier to install they are just ripping us off at $4500

Since the government started offering the $2000 rebate the installers have been charging an extra $1000 - $2000 for an installation.

[pjbplumbing@bigpond.com]

As I have already tried to explain there are what amounts to, two diffferent gas systems for the Diesel; one uses pressure feedback from the inlet manifold while the other systems use a more complicated system using a ECU to control the gas.
It is the second system that Spoddy has asked for a quote for.
Also as I have said before, these guys are run off their feet and the fact that you even got a reply at all surprises me.
The cheaper system ( the pressure sensor one) goes for around $3800.00 less rebate.

[Greg Roles]

Since the government started offering the $2000 rebate the installers have been charging an extra $1000 - $2000 for an installation.

Well dude you can always wait till the rebate runs out, and it goes back to the same difference!

But yeah it's a bit rude all the same....somewhat like rainwater tanks me thinks. I just got a quote to plumb mine to the dunny, a job I could so easily do myself for about $100, and it was $770....

Any plumbers from Brissie out there?? I'll do all the work, you check it, and charge something a bit more sensible for 10mins of your time???

[bluey]

Multi-cell aluminium tanks look interesting - choose your own size from 102mm thick, multiple width and custom length.
http://www.propaneperformance.com/html/index.htm

Apparently, there are issues with roadworthiness of diesel-LPG systems post 2003.
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21141
To be legal,
a. installation has to be according to the relevant AS1425.
b. a type installation has to be tested/certified to comply with ADR79/00 or ADR79/01 for emissions

To date, none of the diesel-LPG systems has been emissions certified.

Does anyone have any information about the various diesel-LPG systems? - d-gas; dieselgas; dieselongas; ecoshot(powershot USA)

d-gas supplies kits - implying one can self-install perhaps and have the installation certified by an appropriate person or alternatively, do most of the work and leave the final connections and inspection to a licenced person.

[silvershadow]

How good is the MY09 EOS TDI/DSG?

A 500Km trip to Newcastle and back yesterday gave some very interesting fuel consumption results from the trip computer for a vehicle that only has 1500Km on the clock:

Average fuel consumption for entire trip: 4.8 litres/100km [400Km highway, 100km city driving]

Worst average fuel consumption: 5.0 litres/100Km [city peak hour traffic with air-conditioning working continuously]

Best average consumption: 4.6 litres/100Km [40Km of continuous 80 K/hr cruising due to roadwork speed restriction - A/C cycling]

The following link is great for converting fuel consumption/distances from metric to imperial or vice-versa including the UK/US gallon conversion for any international readers:

http://www.eforecourt.com/l_100km_mpg_convert.htm (http://www.eforecourt.com/l_100km_mpg_convert.htm)

TDI/DSG take a bow.......http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/11/smilegif-1.jpg .

[gregozedobe]

TDI/DSG take a bow.......

Before you get TOO excited you might want to fill your tank and calculate what your consumption actully was. VAG cars MFDs are notoriously optimistic (in my TDI's case usually 10-20% better than what my real consumption is).

That said, the TDIs are known to get some really good figures, particularly if you manage to be gentle with the right foot.

[silvershadow]

Before you get TOO excited you might want to fill your tank and calculate what your consumption actully was. VAG cars MFDs are notoriously optimistic (in my TDI's case usually 10-20% better than what my real consumption is).

That said, the TDIs are known to get some really good figures, particularly if you manage to be gentle with the right foot.


I am too old to trust these new-fangled devices :comphit:.

I am doing an old-fashioned manual consumption check concurrently as well - the car only has 1600Km on the clock so this is for interest only - the real consumption will not be evident until it reaches 20,000+Km.

The MY09 TDI has more torque and almost no traditional diesel noise compared to the MY08 Eos I took for a full day extended test drive before we ordered the car.

[gregozedobe]

I've been working with computers since 1970, so I know from first hand experience that they are only as good as the most useless person involved in the whole process ;) My inner cynic suspects that they are deliberately engineered to be optimistic as a marketing device.

Does the MY09 EOS TDI have the new CR diesel (as different to the previous PD version) ?

[drbass]

Totally agree, feel-good factor!

Correct, CR instead of the PD which is doing great service in my car!

Seeya,
Michael

[silvershadow]

I've been working with computers since 1970, so I know from first hand experience that they are only as good as the most useless person involved in the whole process ;) My inner cynic suspects that they are deliberately engineered to be optimistic as a marketing device.

Does the MY09 EOS TDI have the new CR diesel (as different to the previous PD version) ?


I started in 1966 using punch cards for programming in FORTRAN - if you had one card mis-punched or out-of-sequence, your programme wouldn't run and it took another 24 hours to find out if your corrective action was successful. The computer used valves and was notoriously unreliable and sensitive to temperature/humidity variations.

I would not be surprised if the trip computer was optimistic for owner "feel-good" reasons with the hope that they wouldn't bother doing a manual check to confirm the display readings :grin:.

The MY09 is a revised version of the common-rail to improve combustion efficiency and quieten the engine to overcome buyer prejudice to "noisy" diesel engines and to offer an alternative to hybrids which has better performance and fuel consumption close to that of a hybrid in real world driving conditions. The torque and ability of the new TDI to rev quickly is the closest alternative to a petrol V8 I have experienced which pleases me no end :clap:.

[gregozedobe]

I started out as an operator - the person who loaded all those card decks in and ran your job for you. If you job bombed and we liked you we would try to fix it for you and run it again, but if you were unpopular we would just send the cards back with the error report ie too bad, so sad (we weren't officially supposed to touch the programmer's code).

To get back onto topic, the people in the UK that have been getting the new CRs in their Skodas seem to really like them, much more refined and revvy than the PD version.

[Seano]

I'm still quite chuffed with the old PD.

My 01 T4 Syncro Dual Cab has just been getting better and better with time. After 130,000km, this large, ungainly and heavy vehicle is still able to get around our regional town on the daily 50km round trip commute for the best part of 900km....and use only a bit over 73 litres of fuel.

This equates to just 8.2 litres/100km.

Not bad for a rig as big, as heavy and almost as off road capable as a 75 series landcruiser ute...

....why would I need common rail?

[gregozedobe]

Not bad for a rig as big, as heavy and almost as off road capable as a 75 series landcruiser ute...

Having owned a 75 series landcruiser ute I'd have to say that in this instance the word "almost" covers a fair bit of territory , particularly if rough, rocky fire trails with rock ledges are part of the performance requirement. But to be fair, the 4.5litre petrol engine I had in mine liked to guzzle fuel nearly as quickly as it went down the road (and it went pretty fast ;) )


....why would I need common rail?

So long as you are happy it is all good :)

[CatonaPC©]

Now four weeks since delivery and I filled up the second time today. Result 6.9 Litres/100km. That's mainly city driving with some freeway driving. It has just ticked over 1000k.

I am impressed. :)

[gldgti]

in the last week i got 882km off 48L.... 5.5l/100km on B100.

[CatonaPC©]

B100? You brew your own or you buy it from somewhere?

[MrTurkey]

last tank, 800kms for 48 litres

6l/100 avg

MY09 Jetta TDI DSG

I did see on my trip computer average 4.8 l/100 on my way to work yesterday though. (about 20kms 90% freeway)

Still running in I guess, just clocked 2500kms total since pickup on 12 November. :driver:

[neil]

last tank, 800kms for 48 litres

6l/100 avg

MY09 Jetta TDI DSG

I did see on my trip computer average 4.8 l/100 on my way to work yesterday though. (about 20kms 90% freeway)

Still running in I guess, just clocked 2500kms total since pickup on 12 November. :driver:

I noticed fuel efficiency increased after 12000k's.
Return trip from Bowral to CC last week was 3.9 L/100k's speed 100-110kmh
when new the fuel figures were 4.1 while traveling varying the speed between 80-110. Remember Bowral to Sydney is down hill.

[Spoddy]

I posted this is the BP ultimate thread (mostly ULP talk) to stir things up mostly :)....


Just got back from Jervis Bay; the trip involved going through Kangaroo Valley down and back including smoking 3 cars up the hill in the southern side....

5.4l/100km by the trip thingy so should be about 6 in reality.

That post was on the 5/1/09 and Just filled up yesterday with 300km still on the distance to empty. The actual economy was 5.74l/100km after some local driving and to and from work. Only using BP diesel from Blacktown (Sunnyholt Rd & Forge St) which was 112.8c/l.:biggrin:

[greygolf8]

600km to canb & back @115 & almost a week commuting in Syd - 843km's & 53.3l = 6.3l/100km at 15500 odo :)
fuel guage was on empty when filling up, thou mfd said 30km left.

mmm BP Summer Hill is 119c/l.

edit - extra fillings

[comfortline]

300 km country driving. 5.2 L/100

Stoked as.

[stark27]

Melb roundtrip. 1 tank each way with over 100km left easily. Avg 5L/100km.

[CatonaPC©]

850.1 kms before the fuel warning light came on. Filled up with 49 litres. Overall average 5.6L/100km, with air on and 4 passenger and loaded boot.

Mainly highway/mountain driving.

I like. I like! :)

[OvaltoJetta]

850.1 kms before the fuel warning light came on. Filled up with 49 litres. Overall average 5.6L/100km, with air on and 4 passenger and loaded boot.

Mainly highway/mountain driving.

I like. I like! :)

So I take it that you like the Golf CatonaPC.
We did an overnighter 12 months ago from Perth to Bridgetown in the SW of WA a round trip of 627 klm and averaged 5.2l/100klm. The trip home returned 5.0l/100klm. At one point the computer said we'd get 1130 from the tank. Once back in the city the consumption increased a bit and I filled up at 943 with 70 left - according to the MFD. How much better can it get? I dunno, but I'll need to get those sort of figures the week before Easter because I'm driving to Bendigo... on 3 tanks hopefully. :driver:

[Lams]

somebody's gonna run out of diesel on the side of the road because of this thread... :)

[Sharkie]

Just to stir you smelly diesel boys up ... :)

Got 5.7l/100km average driving Brisbane to the Sunshine Coast this past weekend. and that was not messing around either .... indicated 120 in 100km/h zone and 130 in the 110km/h zone.

Increased to 6.2 in the built up areas on the Coast and dropped back to 5.8l/100km on the way back to Brisbane.

Bet you my 200km round trip using Premium ULP was far cheaper than what the same trip would have cost any TDI at the same speeds ....

PULP was $1.09 filling up ... how much did you pay for the smelly stuff ? .....

[gldgti]

Bet you my 200km round trip using Premium ULP was far cheaper than what the same trip would have cost any TDI at the same speeds ....



200km trip? why not let slip how many km you get out of an average tank?

the point of owning a diesel is NOT about bragging about how much better fuel economy you get (thats a bonus). the point of owning a diesel is to have a great car with a fantastic LIFETIME AVERAGE FUEL CONSUMPTION.

and for me, its not about the cost either - im happier to drive a diesel on moral grounds....

in the 12 months from 0ctober 07 to october 08, i spent $5,500 on diesel and biodiesel (from the pump) and i did 51,000kms.

SO THERE. :-)

[peedman]

200km trip? why not let slip how many km you get out of an average tank?

the point of owning a diesel is NOT about bragging about how much better fuel economy you get (thats a bonus). the point of owning a diesel is to have a great car with a fantastic LIFETIME AVERAGE FUEL CONSUMPTION.

and for me, its not about the cost either - im happier to drive a diesel on moral grounds....

in the 12 months from 0ctober 07 to october 08, i spent $5,500 on diesel and biodiesel (from the pump) and i did 51,000kms.

SO THERE. :-)

off topic, but update ur tdi thread!!!!! :wasntme:

[CatonaPC©]

Just to stir you smelly diesel boys up ... :)

Got 5.7l/100km average driving Brisbane to the Sunshine Coast this past weekend. and that was not messing around either .... indicated 120 in 100km/h zone and 130 in the 110km/h zone.

Increased to 6.2 in the built up areas on the Coast and dropped back to 5.8l/100km on the way back to Brisbane.

Bet you my 200km round trip using Premium ULP was far cheaper than what the same trip would have cost any TDI at the same speeds ....

PULP was $1.09 filling up ... how much did you pay for the smelly stuff ? .....

Very impessive. But I don't know much about Polos so I'd guess we are talking about a lighter car. You also haven't stated what load your car had and 200km is a small sample. I'm not sure what engine your Polo has but I have heard the 2.0 litre Golf FSI petrol engine is quite economical.

I agree that one really needs to monitor fuel consumption over a longer period, and I have done around 4500km in mine with an average of 6.8l/100km and that is mostly city stop/start driving. There was no way in high heaven I would have ever gotten that in either of my previous two rides, a 2002 Ford Focus and a 1998 Corolla.

So far, so good. Let's hope it stays that way.

[Sharkie]

My Polo (GTI) is now making over 170kw and funnily enough the more mods I've been doing the better the economy has been getting. Load on the weekend was 2 adults and 3 kids and luggage ....

I only do about 7000kms a year in it so not a lot of oppertunity to drive long distance. Long trips are normally done in the 4wd ....:frown:

My daily drive does 4l/100kms and does 0-100km/h in 3.5s and does 15000km a year (or should I say ride) Bet you thats more environment friendly than any diesel .... :biggrin:

[gldgti]

My daily drive does 4l/100kms and does 0-100km/h in 3.5s and does 15000km a year (or should I say ride) Bet you thats more environment friendly than any diesel .... :biggrin:

in a way... but i can carry 4 people an luggage.. therefore being more efficient.

[Transporter]

in a way... but i can carry 4 people an luggage.. therefore being more efficient.

And, also you forgot to mention in comfort. :biggrin:

[benno]

0-100km/h in 3.5s

I find that hard to believe.

[Greg Roles]

in a way... but i can carry 4 people an luggage.. therefore being more efficient.

...with no drop in performance.........

still great figures for a hot car, even if your watch is a few seconds fast...

[Sharkie]

...with no drop in performance.........

still great figures for a hot car, even if your watch is a few seconds fast...


I find that hard to believe.

Who said my daily drive was a VW ????? .... I did say ride .... Suzuki GSR600 uses 4l/100km IN THE CITY, and probably does LESS than 3.5s 0-100km/h even though I'm a bit wary to push it that hard .... :)

Yeah, and only 1 passenger and a very little bit of luggage ..... :)

BUT ..... its quick for commuting, quick anywhere else :biggrin:, cheap to run AND better for the environment than any of the cars on this forum ... :moonie:

Also ..... my Polo makes in excess of 360NM so loading it up delivers very little drop in performance either ....... loading it up and fanging it does drive the consumption up, but that is what sports hatches are there for ..... not for silly fuel economy runs ....:duh: .... even though it seems it can do that as well. I admit though that that is not its main purpose in life.

[Greg Roles]

Very clever mister....you win this round....:)

[Russ59]

Regardless of your economy figures this thread is meant to be about TDI economy anyway so why drag a petrol car and motorcycle into it :duh: Back on topic anyways, I only have 7,500 k's up on the GT so far and the figures have never exceeded about 7.0 L / 100 kms (properly calculated not onboard figures) and that has been in stop start traffic, having a fang on occasions (very occasionally :biggrin: ) and a bit of highway cruising as well. I personally won't be going back to a petrol car again, my little Putt Putt diesel will do me fine and with the prospect of the economy only improving as the km's on the clock get up a bit further, I'll be even more satisfied :) :driver:

[CatonaPC©]

I also used a calculator, not the MFD to state my figures, but the MFD is not that far off, but I agree, it can be a little optimistic.

And given I've only had the car for less than two months, I doubt I'd go back to petrol also. I suspect that the diesel cycle engine will be the way of the future. Even now, they are finding their way onto light aircraft, most notably the Cirrus and Cessna are considering it also.

[Transporter]

Who said my daily drive was a VW ????? .... I did say ride .... Suzuki GSR600 uses 4l/100km IN THE CITY, and probably does LESS than 3.5s 0-100km/h even though I'm a bit wary to push it that hard .... :)

Yeah, and only 1 passenger and a very little bit of luggage ..... :)

BUT ..... its quick for commuting, quick anywhere else :biggrin:, cheap to run AND better for the environment than any of the cars on this forum ... :moonie:

Also ..... my Polo makes in excess of 360NM so loading it up delivers very little drop in performance either ....... loading it up and fanging it does drive the consumption up, but that is what sports hatches are there for ..... not for silly fuel economy runs ....:duh: .... even though it seems it can do that as well. I admit though that that is not its main purpose in life.

How expensive are other running cost? .......tyres? and how long they last.
How many airbags do you have on two wheeler? :biggrin:

[gregozedobe]

And how long does it take to don your wet weather gear and take it off (or to change into dry clothes) ? When I used to regularly commute in Melbourne on a bike I used to (sometimes longingly) refer to cars as "the ultimate wet weather gear".

If they are considering running diesel in planes, I wonder how long it will be before we see a TDI motorbike ? Imagine the fuel consumption you could get out of an appropriately designed diesel bike !

[CatonaPC©]

Diesels for light aircraft will become more common because AVGAS isn't plentiful, cheap or good for the environment - it contains lead. Some existing aircraft (Cessna 172s etc) can be retrofitted.

Aircraft diesel engines run on Jet A1 fuel. Hmmm . . . :rolleyes: wonder how my TDI would run on that stuff! :biggrin:

[xvr6]

Diesels for light aircraft will become more common because AVGAS isn't plentiful, cheap or good for the environment - it contains lead. Some existing aircraft (Cessna 172s etc) can be retrofitted.

Aircraft diesel engines run on Jet A1 fuel. Hmmm . . . :rolleyes: wonder how my TDI would run on that stuff! :biggrin:

Do not even think about it as the fuel is too dry (no Sulfur or any lubricating properties). I must admit though when we have had to drain a tank to work on it I will use it in an old tech diesel by mixing in 2 stroke oil until there is an oily feel when rubbed between your fingers. I have used it in the Nissan Grenade as a get out of jail.
Also remember the pressures in the PD injectors is much more than in a turbine engine. The pump output is only 900psi approx and the nozzle working pressures are between 60-150psi on turbines.
Many years ago we had a batch of new sulfur free fuel and we had many pumps shear due poor lubrication and we had to add a teflon liquid, about a cap full to each wing in a Metro (Flying Tampon) until the refinery fixed the problem.

[silvershadow]

Now that our Eos has reached 10,000Km, I have run my first definitive fuel consumption test for the MY09 TDI & DSG combination. The test was done in a mix of 80% country and 20% town driving with the climate control permanently on.

Distance covered: 842Km

Fuel used: 42.65 litres [Shell diesel]

Fuel Consumption: 17.67 Km/litre, 49.92mpg [Imperial], 41.56mpg [USA]

Who needs a hybrid with their inherent compromises when you can get this economy and performance as well :bowdown:.

[gldgti]

we just did a trip to Wagga Wagga and back via Sydney from Gosford in my mk3 TD. Achieved 5.14l/100km! 2 up with luggage and sound gear for my sisters 21st party. oh yeah, used the air conditioning for 90% of the trip (darned black car)
woot!

[BeigeJet]

we just did a trip to Wagga Wagga and back via Sydney from Gosford in my mk3 TD. Achieved 5.14l/100km! 2 up with luggage and sound gear for my sisters 21st party. oh yeah, used the air conditioning for 90% of the trip (darned black car)
woot!

gldgti,

Not bad!
I just did a round trip Melb Syd Melb on Sat Sun for niece's 21st.
5 adults and boot full of airbeds, sheets, towels and clothing and averaged over the 1,832km 5.19l/100km using aircon all the way and mostly against a horrible headwind on both directions!
Oh and sitting on 2,100rpm for most of the trip on the Hume.
That's about 111km if the gearing suggested in Wheels a couple years ago is correct (53.1 km per 1,000km) :P

Cheers,

Neil.

[oracle1]

I love weight and balance time, 5% ee100 ashless dispersant at 5% and bob's your uncle. I used to cart the 44 away with the siphon hose running from the back tray into the fuel tank from str8 under the metro wing

[gldgti]

gldgti,
Oh and sitting on 2,100rpm for most of the trip on the Hume.



oooh i wish.

with the old dubs the longest 'box you get is mine (CHD code) and its 2800rpm at 110km/h..... no shame in flying the old TD flag when you consider that little factor i reckon :-)

any TDI owners willing to try an economy run without using top gear??? :-D

[Cam]

I did a trip from Nowra to Wollongong and back on the weekend and I averaged 5.2L/100km
:icon_dance:

It was mainly 6th gear driving, but a lot of hills and I was having a bit of fun in between. I love diesel, I think I'd find it extremely hard to go back to petrol after getting this sort of economy.

Around town I can get 700km out of a tank and thats in stop/start traffic!
Using BP diesel.

[gldgti]

gldgti,

That's about 111km if the gearing suggested in Wheels a couple years ago is correct (53.1 km per 1,000km) :P


Neil.

haha, i reckon similar with most cars. thats about how far my car is out too (worked out from the odo-check zones on the major highways)

[Gigitt]

we just did a trip to Wagga Wagga and back via Sydney from Gosford in my mk3 TD. Achieved 5.14l/100km! 2 up with luggage and sound gear for my sisters 21st party. oh yeah, used the air conditioning for 90% of the trip (darned black car)
woot!

what is your tyre sze are you unning?

The reason I ask...

I just bought new tyres for my Mk3 TDI 2 months go...
I changed from running 195/50/15 to 195/55/15.
I decided this by using the online tyre calulator to match the original 14in tyres stamped on the car delivery sticker.

The 50 series tyres were runing 9% low on the speedo when compared to GPS.
Now with the 55 series tyres I amrunning 100 % spot on at 40/50/60/80/100/110 km compared with the GPS.

[gldgti]

i run 195/45 R16

[GoLfMan]

I flog my car senseless everywhere I go and I dont get higher than 6l/100km :) WOHOOOO

[MrTurkey]

Had a small trip yesterday,
Barnawartha - Wodonga - Wagga Wagga and return
4.9

Also looking at my trip meter (I reset every fill) seeing about 750kms on it and still having a 1/4 of a tank left.

Overall average on the trip computer (#2) is 5.5

Dropping the speed from 110 back to 100 is a big help on the economy side.

[Transporter]

Had a small trip yesterday,
Barnawartha - Wodonga - Wagga Wagga and return
4.9

Also looking at my trip meter (I reset every fill) seeing about 750kms on it and still having a 1/4 of a tank left.

Overall average on the trip computer (#2) is 5.5

Dropping the speed from 110 back to 100 is a big help on the economy side.

That's good for Jetta TDI. How many km's have you done from new?
Also check it against the fuel docket, so you'll get idea how accurate is your trip computer.
Good results anyway. :)

[MrTurkey]

That's good for Jetta TDI. How many km's have you done from new?
Also check it against the fuel docket, so you'll get idea how accurate is your trip computer.
Good results anyway. :)

Yes it is a MY09 common rail DSG. Had since new, done 43,000 k's now :eek:

I'll write the trip meter on the next docket and do a manual calculation.

Oh, my dad is also buying a Jetta 103 TDI now (MY10), probably a little to do with my influence. It is rated to have slightly better economy, will wait and see how long it takes for him to do better than me. :)

[CatonaPC©]

The best I have done has been 920km before the fuel warning light came on. On the highway at 115km/h indicated, aircon, 3 passengers and a full boot, I managed 5.7l/100km on trip computer. The best with a lighter load was 5.4l/100km.

Around town, in stop/start traffic, not uncommon to get at least 600km out of the tank before the fuel light comes on.

At current diesel prices (118 cents) it makes for some very economical transport.

This level of economy and performance of the TDI? Power WITH glory!

[Buller_Scott]

after many many trips to buller where fuel economy and torque are two key things to appreciate, im never going back to petrol. never.

i've put 45,000kms on my clock in just on a year and a half. i dont think i could handle going back to petrol and tiring the engine out after only 3/4 years.......

[Evaded Motorsport]

In the Polo according to the trip computer upto Maryborough from Brisbane I was averaging 4.1l/100km. Most I have ever had from a tank though was 910km although I do have a bit of a led foot.

[bluey]

...averaging 4.1l/100km. Most I have ever had from a tank though was 910km...

Do the ventectomy mod and you will get >1200km at that consumption.

See http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showpost.php?p=305698&postcount=18
and
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showpost.php?p=305811&postcount=22

(Or you can just use the expansion tank vent button manually.)

[GoLfMan]

In the Polo according to the trip computer upto Maryborough from Brisbane I was averaging 4.1l/100km. Most I have ever had from a tank though was 910km although I do have a bit of a led foot.

the venectomy is a fantastic mod :) you can squeeze a wee bit more than an extra 15L into your tank!

VERY HANDY!

[CatonaPC©]

Ventectomy?

I tried looking at the links but any images are not there. Anyone explain what the process is?

[bluey]

the venectomy is a fantastic mod :) you can squeeze a wee bit more than an extra 15L into your tank!...

I haven't been game to run past 0km remaining on the computer. Never got more than 53L in so far. Anyone know how much the tank+expansion chamber actually holds? (how much further one could go in an emergency before running dry. I did run my first petrol car bone dry (carried a spare fuel can) to establish actual capacity. I understand it is not so good to run diesels dry but I thought I read somewhere that VW diesels have self-priming pumps.

Many moons ago getting a Greyhound bus from Brisbane to Melbourne, we got to Tugun and ran out of diesel 50yards over the road from the Shell station. (Someone forgot to fill up.) But we had to wait 3 hours for a mechanic to come to prime the injectors.

[GoLfMan]

I haven't been game to run past 0km remaining on the computer. Never got more than 53L in so far. Anyone know how much the tank+expansion chamber actually holds? (how much further one could go in an emergency before running dry. I did run my first petrol car bone dry (carried a spare fuel can) to establish actual capacity. I understand it is not so good to run diesels dry but I thought I read somewhere that VW diesels have self-priming pumps.

Many moons ago getting a Greyhound bus from Brisbane to Melbourne, we got to Tugun and ran out of diesel 50yards over the road from the Shell station. (Someone forgot to fill up.) But we had to wait 3 hours for a mechanic to come to prime the injectors.

i wouldn't recommend running the TDI dry ;) (or any other car for that matter)

i'm not sure how much it actually holds, I just know it a substantial amount (for such a small mod)

[bluey]

Ventectomy?

I tried looking at the links but any images are not there. Anyone explain what the process is?

Pics are there for me. I think you may have to join TDIclub to see the pics. Highly recommended to do that - loads of great information.

[CatonaPC©]

Okay, found them.

Not something I would do. All fuel expands, diesel as well. It would be naive to say it doesn't carry some risk.

[bluey]

Okay, found them.

Not something I would do. All fuel expands, diesel as well. It would be naive to say it doesn't carry some risk.

Have read *extensively* about thermal coefficient of expansion of diesel fuel via the TDI club and other references. Even petrol has negligible coefficient of expansion. Pressure is unchanged in the same conditions. There is no increased risk. Feel free to do your own research....

[chris.]

i wish i had a diesel :(

last one i got in at work the needle was a bit bellow 3/4 and it said 780kms left in the tank . . . my mouth droped

last time i messured i got 285kms to a tank :( & i dont really thrash my car






i dont bother mesureing anymore

[bluey]

[...]last time i messured i got 285kms to a tank :( & i dont really thrash my car

i dont bother mesureing anymore

Either that's a lot of stop-start peak hour driving or there is a serious problem requiring attention.

Worst fuel consumption I ever got was about 12mpg (23.5L/100km) in a holden 308 V8, caused by a sinking carbie float and consequently high fuel level. Improved to 17mpg (16.5L/100km) when fixed. Always worth monitoring fuel consumption. I'm guessing you're around the 17L/100km mark. What kind of car????

[Spoddy]

i wish i had a diesel :(

last one i got in at work the needle was a bit bellow 3/4 and it said 780kms left in the tank . . . my mouth droped

last time i messured i got 285kms to a tank :( & i dont really thrash my car

i dont bother mesureing anymore

I reckon its because you run your tyres too flat :biggrin:
---/=========\
(]/_ O _____ O _\[)
"'(O8o)=\X/=(o8O)
'|\===------===/|
[__|========|__] Too flat two flat

[OvaltoJetta]

I put in 55.25 litres in after doing 1027.9 klm. It must have been up the spout.

[neil]

I usually put in between 52-54 litres each time.
I know they say not to let it get down this low so you don't pickup any s**t
but I have always had diesels and always let the fuel run down low without any problems.
I dont see the point in leaving s**t in the tank to build up over years of driving.
My thinking is to get it out as soon as possible,otherwise one day when you
get caught out with low fuel you might end up picking up a heap of s**t.

[tonymaroney]

The most I've ever got out of a single tank is just over 1,200km. It was a return trip from Brisbane to Coffs with all the family on board (5) including luggage for the weekend. This was in my 2.0 TDi Golf (soon to be upgraded to 125kW TDi Passat wagon).

Makes me laugh whenever I hear people say it's not worth buying a diesel car because it costs an extra 20c/litre over unleaded (more like 10c/litre over premium - which most cars need nowadays anyway). They will also tell you how many years it will take you to recoup the extra $$s spent in the premium you paid for buying a diesel car too...but they never take into account the higher resale figure!!

Also, my experience has been that with diesel cars it is fairly easy to achieve (or better) the fuel economy figures stated by the manufacturer...but with petrol cars it never is.

Really? 1200klms from a 2005 2L TDI Golf V DSG (103kW?). There is absolutely no way my 103kW 2L TDI golf can get anywhere near that. The best I could get was 960klm (5.6L/100klm) with 100% freeway driving, at about 100k/hr (actual speed, not speedo speed which is about 8% high for me...just under 110k/hr on speedo), being careful, two passengers, moderate luggage load and minimal a/c. Normal day to day (50% city and 50% freeway) I get about 800-850klms from about 52L (6L/100klm).
I'm happy with those numbers but I just don't understand how anyone can get >1100klms in this car?
I think my car is overfuelling (confirmed via a mechanic) and I might have a slight economy issue. I'm not sure what the overfuelling is caused by...maybe the MAF. Breaking the 1000klms barrier just does not seem possible in my car.
Do the other 103kW 2L Golf V TDI owners get >1000klms from a tank regularly when on long hauls?

Tony

[CatonaPC©]

Do the other 103kW 2L Golf V TDI owners get >1000klms from a tank regularly when on long hauls?

I've gotten 920km on a tank before the fuel light came on; with a load on board and aircon going, but I wasn't driving withy economy in mind.

I could have gotten 1000km if I tried. 1200km sounds doable but there would be a multitude of factors having to go your way to get that figure.

[neil]

Really? 1200klms from a 2005 2L TDI Golf V DSG (103kW?). There is absolutely no way my 103kW 2L TDI golf can get anywhere near that. The best I could get was 960klm (5.6L/100klm) with 100% freeway driving, at about 100k/hr (actual speed, not speedo speed which is about 8% high for me...just under 110k/hr on speedo), being careful, two passengers, moderate luggage load and minimal a/c. Normal day to day (50% city and 50% freeway) I get about 800-850klms from about 52L (6L/100klm).
I'm happy with those numbers but I just don't understand how anyone can get >1100klms in this car?
I think my car is overfuelling (confirmed via a mechanic) and I might have a slight economy issue. I'm not sure what the overfuelling is caused by...maybe the MAF. Breaking the 1000klms barrier just does not seem possible in my car.
Do the other 103kW 2L Golf V TDI owners get >1000klms from a tank regularly when on long hauls?

Tony

I'm on the Newcastle/Sydney Fwy 95% of the time and constantly get
over the 1000km range and if I keep it to 90km/h for the whole tank I have
been able to easily reach 1200km.

[gldgti]

Really? 1200klms from a 2005 2L TDI Golf V DSG (103kW?). There is absolutely no way my 103kW 2L TDI golf can get anywhere near that. The best I could get was 960klm (5.6L/100klm) with 100% freeway driving, at about 100k/hr (actual speed, not speedo speed which is about 8% high for me...just under 110k/hr on speedo), being careful, two passengers, moderate luggage load and minimal a/c. Normal day to day (50% city and 50% freeway) I get about 800-850klms from about 52L (6L/100klm).
I'm happy with those numbers but I just don't understand how anyone can get >1100klms in this car?
I think my car is overfuelling (confirmed via a mechanic) and I might have a slight economy issue. I'm not sure what the overfuelling is caused by...maybe the MAF. Breaking the 1000klms barrier just does not seem possible in my car.
Do the other 103kW 2L Golf V TDI owners get >1000klms from a tank regularly when on long hauls?

Tony

overfuelling in a diesel is more "throttle". how do you dirve? plenty of exercise ofr the rings? you really have to load em up now and then to keep good cylinder bores (no glasing) and get hte best from the engine.

[BeigeJet]

Really? 1200klms from a 2005 2L TDI Golf V DSG (103kW?). There is absolutely no way my 103kW 2L TDI golf can get anywhere near that.
Do the other 103kW 2L Golf V TDI owners get >1000klms from a tank regularly when on long hauls?

Tony

Hey Tony,

Best I've got in in my Jetta so far has been 1,105km on 49 lt, with 3 adults and luggage from Dubbo to Maclean to Byron Bay to Woodburn (sth of Byron).
And I regularly get 850+ around melbornes stop start morning and evening grind. The Jetta's probably 150 kg heavier than a Golf to boot!,

Cheers,

Neil.

[tonymaroney]

I think I have babied the engine too much when new which has in turn reduced some of my economy. I don't drive the car too hard and was having some smoke issues (well, brown particulate issues rather than black smoke) so I did an italian tune up and noticed an immediate improvement in the particulate level coming out the back. So I'm now being a little more full on with the throttle and the particulate discharge has remained a lot lower.
An experienced VW mechanic (not VW themselves) did notice the overfuelling and they checked the EGR valve and MAF for me. No real issues to report but the MAF might be acting up. The strange thing is that the very first time I took the car for a long haul (so less than 2K on the clock) I noticed the fuel economy meter reading an awesome number (about 3.9-4.2L/100klm average) and then it has changed for the worse and settled on about 5.2-5.6L/100klms now. I know those economy measurements are not accurate, but I would have thought they would be "consistently inaccurate"...so always reading too high or low. Rather than too low one month and then much higher from then onwards. So maybe that's the cylinders getting glazed over from the engine being babied.

I also think that 90km/hr economy (as opposed to 110km/hr) would boost my numbers. Over xmas I'll be doing some long distance driving so I might have a chance to test out these ideas. But 1100-1200klms from 50L just doesn't seem likely. My 960klms was from about 52L if I remember correctly.

Tony

[neil]

I think I have babied the engine too much when new which has in turn reduced some of my economy. I don't drive the car too hard and was having some smoke issues (well, brown particulate issues rather than black smoke) so I did an italian tune up and noticed an immediate improvement in the particulate level coming out the back. So I'm now being a little more full on with the throttle and the particulate discharge has remained a lot lower.
An experienced VW mechanic (not VW themselves) did notice the overfuelling and they checked the EGR valve and MAF for me. No real issues to report but the MAF might be acting up. The strange thing is that the very first time I took the car for a long haul (so less than 2K on the clock) I noticed the fuel economy meter reading an awesome number (about 3.9-4.2L/100klm average) and then it has changed for the worse and settled on about 5.2-5.6L/100klms now. I know those economy measurements are not accurate, but I would have thought they would be "consistently inaccurate"...so always reading too high or low. Rather than too low one month and then much higher from then onwards. So maybe that's the cylinders getting glazed over from the engine being babied.

I also think that 90km/hr economy (as opposed to 110km/hr) would boost my numbers. Over xmas I'll be doing some long distance driving so I might have a chance to test out these ideas. But 1100-1200klms from 50L just doesn't seem likely. My 960klms was from about 52L if I remember correctly.

Tony

I have always used BP diesel as its recommended by VW and has a higher
centane rating then most others.
Might be worth doing a bit of a search on here for fuel additives as a few
others have used it to improve smoke output and better fuel efficiency.

[_ds]

Just driven a TDI Multivan from Melbourne to Perth

Filled up somewhere north of Adelaide, again at Mundrabilla and again at Norseman. Arrived back home with a good quarter of a tank remaining. According to the (slightly optimistic) computer, average economy was:
Day 1 (Melbourne, through Adelaide, through Port Augusta to Kimba) 7.9l/100km
Day 2 (Eyre highway to Caiguna) 7.5l/100km
Day 3 (through Norseman, then Coolgardie and on to Perth) 7.9l/100km

First diesel I've owned, and I'm pretty happy. One other thing I noticed about it - this thing EATS hills. Unbelievable.

[Buller_Scott]

Just driven a TDI Multivan from Melbourne to Perth

. One other thing I noticed about it - this thing EATS hills. Unbelievable.

lol. imagine a fully-loaded polo girl car with 3 ppl in it on the hills running into sydney from melbourne....

hill what? a ford territory (v6 4.0L glory power like some wankers like to namedrop) aint got ish.....( aww damn, im sorry, but when both brim-full, standard wrx gets smaller in rear view mirror.... deal with it fanbois)

i might only drive a humble polo.... but bets are off when it comes to going up hills. petrol dont stand a chance....

++disclaimer: yes i know diesels are slow, just like in le mans (audi/peugeot)

[NiekSavio]

[QUOTE Do the other 103kW 2L Golf V TDI owners get >1000klms from a tank regularly when on long hauls?

Tony

Tony, FYI

Currently have approx 6800 km's on my TDi 2.0 Pacific.
Started driving with a full tank and did 450 km's mainly freeway at 110 km/h and 3 people on board + aircon going as well.
Filled up after the trip and it worked out at about 16.5 km per liter.

Anyone:

Will this figure get better when the car gets fully run in?

Greetings :)

[tonymaroney]

NiekSavio...

So that's about 6.06L/100km, and if you used 52L you would travel 858kms. That sounds to be about what I get....but I get that with the a/c off most of the journey, and 1-2 people in the car. So I'm probably still not going as well as you. Your engine "might" loosen up more and give you better mileage, but mine didn't really. After about 5000km it was giving numbers like what you are seeing, and it has stabilised at that.
Did you run your engine in fairly hard or fairly gently like me? Running it in too gently seems to potentially give issues, so it would be interesting to know what sort of running in you have been doing.
Cheers,
Tony

[lunar1]

Still running the V 103 2.0 MY08, I'm closer to 920-940 on long hauls if I behave.

On the general premise of economy w/TDI -- I just like being able to have a heavy foot to use the torque anytime and not fret about taking a hit at the filling station.

Drive it like I stole it, and still stop as often as gramma in her petrol.

[NiekSavio]

NiekSavio...

So that's about 6.06L/100km, and if you used 52L you would travel 858kms. That sounds to be about what I get....but I get that with the a/c off most of the journey, and 1-2 people in the car. So I'm probably still not going as well as you. Your engine "might" loosen up more and give you better mileage, but mine didn't really. After about 5000km it was giving numbers like what you are seeing, and it has stabilised at that.
Did you run your engine in fairly hard or fairly gently like me? Running it in too gently seems to potentially give issues, so it would be interesting to know what sort of running in you have been doing.

Cheers,
Tony

Hi Tony,

I have been running it in mainly city driving. So a lot of stop and starts but not giving the engine heaps. Looks like I have driven my car very similair to what you have.

I have read somewhere that city driving is actually good for running in a car compared with freeway driving, but then again you hear or read a lot of different suggestions about running in a car.

A mate of mine at work drives a Jetta 2.0 TDi and got nearly 1300 km's from a tank full on a trip to and around Brisbane. He admitted though that he drove up to Brisbane with an average speed of about 90 km/h.

Regards, NS

[Mofo]

Hi All,

Sorry to rehash an older thread but I just managed to crack 1100km on a tank in the beast and I'm feeling pretty chuffed with myself. :banana:
Amazing what pleasant weather, favourable winds and no air can can do.
This was on my normal weekly commute from the coast to Brisbane but with, admitedly, no major traffic issues due the sh*ty ours I work!
Always managed to get 1050-1070km so I was well please to get past 1100, had 0km left on DTE but you've go to live a little hey!
1101.4km and I'd fuelled up with 53.54L which = 4.86l/100km.
Now for 1200!!!:cuckoo:

[rearrange]

Hi everyone

Reading all of your comments leaves me a little disappointed in my 2009 Caddy TDI's economy. The worst figure it returned was 8.1L/100kms, and the best is 7.4 which I got yesterday after a 800km trip from Adelaide to Penola and back (no a/c needed, no luggage, 1 x 60kg driver, good weather, virtually no other traffic, 110km/h - Cruise Control set, using BP Ultimate Diesel). The worst figure doesn't bother me as I know that my inner city stop-start driving is bad for economy (my previous Golf VR6 auto averaged around 11.5 for the same use). But I would have expected the rural driving to return a much better result. 7.4 doesn't even match the official URBAN cycle of 7.3 for the Caddy. :(

To reach the 5.3L/100km Official Extra-Urban figure for the Caddy I imagine I'd have to drive at 80km/h, downhill, with a tail wind! Are any other Caddy TDI manual drivers getting a better result?

[kaanage]

Is that the new CR version or the old 1.9 PD?

Preeny has one of the latter and says here (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f69/end-diesel-cars-nigh-57081-3.html#post647227) that he has gotten 7.6l/100km average for Orange to Drysdale whilst towing a CAR TRAILER with the Mk1 on the back (and I don't doubt him for a moment)

[Preen59]

lyes i know diesels are slow, just like in le mans (audi/peugeot)

Quote worthy. :)

[gldgti]

Hi everyone

Reading all of your comments leaves me a little disappointed in my 2009 Caddy TDI's economy. The worst figure it returned was 8.1L/100kms, and the best is 7.4 which I got yesterday after a 800km trip from Adelaide to Penola and back (no a/c needed, no luggage, 1 x 60kg driver, good weather, virtually no other traffic, 110km/h - Cruise Control set, using BP Ultimate Diesel). The worst figure doesn't bother me as I know that my inner city stop-start driving is bad for economy (my previous Golf VR6 auto averaged around 11.5 for the same use). But I would have expected the rural driving to return a much better result. 7.4 doesn't even match the official URBAN cycle of 7.3 for the Caddy. :(

To reach the 5.3L/100km Official Extra-Urban figure for the Caddy I imagine I'd have to drive at 80km/h, downhill, with a tail wind! Are any other Caddy TDI manual drivers getting a better result?

I don't think the cruise control will do you any favours if your going up and down any hills. on a dead flat road, cruise might be better than the foot, but the brain is much better at being economical once hills come into play. (note, i've no idea if there is much in the way of hills i your area)

[Preen59]

I don't think the cruise control will do you any favours if your going up and down any hills. on a dead flat road, cruise might be better than the foot, but the brain is much better at being economical once hills come into play. (note, i've no idea if there is much in the way of hills i your area)

I beg to differ (With the VW cruise, some suck balls).

I find that the VW cruise control works tops and I am always going up and down hills on the highway where I live. The Mk4 and later cruise control is super sharp and very responsive. You don't get the delay you get with some other, older cruise control units.

When i was on the highway I was even using the cruise towing the car trailer, no issues what soever (except of course, down hills when I had to use the brakes). :)

[Preen59]

Is that the new CR version or the old 1.9 PD?

Preeny has one of the latter and says here (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f69/end-diesel-cars-nigh-57081-3.html#post647227) that he has gotten 7.6l/100km average for Orange to Drysdale whilst towing a CAR TRAILER with the Mk1 on the back (and I don't doubt him for a moment)

I should mention that I am running a piggy back module (TDI- Turbo Diesel Innovations).. But this only accounts for ~5% better economy.

Don't be too concerned with your figures when the engine is new. They definitely use more fuel when they're tight. Wait until you've got about 10k on it and see what it's doing. :)

[kaanage]

I find that the VW cruise control works tops and I am always going up and down hills on the highway where I live. The Mk4 and later cruise control is super sharp and very responsive. You don't get the delay you get with some other, older cruise control units.
I think that gldgti is suggesting that a driver can get better economy than the cruise control as the driver can make small speed adjustments anticipating changes in the terrain (eg increase speed a bit downhill to help roll up the next hill while bleeding off a bit of speed) rather than just holding at a set speed all the time. This makes your fuel economy figures even more impressive.


Don't be too concerned with your figures when the engine is new. They definitely use more fuel when they're tight. Wait until you've got about 10k on it and see what it's doing. :)
I was disappointed with the fuel economy that I got with my 9N3 Polo TDi on a trip from Melbourne to Sydney and back when it was quite new (5.1l/100km actual). It seems to have improved as I've added mileage (now just over 10Mm).

Adding 2 stroke oil @ 200:1 seems to have helped too.

[rearrange]

Is that the new CR version or the old 1.9 PD?

Preeny has one of the latter and says here (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f69/end-diesel-cars-nigh-57081-3.html#post647227) that he has gotten 7.6l/100km average for Orange to Drysdale whilst towing a CAR TRAILER with the Mk1 on the back (and I don't doubt him for a moment)

Mine is the old 1.9. It now has 9600kms on the clock. I did same Adelaide to Penola trip when the car was new at Easter last year and it returned 7.5L/100km with a passenger, lots of luggage, and lots of full acceleration overtaking all the slow moving holidaying breeder-wagons. I just can't believe this latest trip didn't beat that figure by more than 0.1L difference.

[rearrange]

I don't think the cruise control will do you any favours if your going up and down any hills. on a dead flat road, cruise might be better than the foot, but the brain is much better at being economical once hills come into play. (note, i've no idea if there is much in the way of hills i your area)

At least 600km of the 800km trip is flat roads. The Adelaide Hills are at one end, but they are hardly steep and 110km/h is easily maintained. I'm not expecting to set any economy records ... I'm not that sort of driver ;)

[Preen59]

Gees mate you should be able to beat those numbers.... :)

Re: cruise control..

I haven't found any improvement from using the foot over the cruise on the Caddy at all. :)

[William_Foster]

I have a 6R TDI Polo with DSG [With all the options, whichmakes it heavier than the standard] and I haven't really been overly impressedwith the fuel economy so far [I only use Caltex Vortex Diesel]. The brochurestates combined fuel consumption of 4.6, urban 5.5, and extra urban 4.0; so farI have done nearly 4,000kms and have average 6.0 in total; which includes fourtrips of 400+ kilometres and I have only seen a figure in the high 4's once ortwice.

I was told that once the motor bedded in a little the fuelperformance would improve, but there is no sign of it yet.
Yesterday I tried manual up shifting and using the DSG onthe downshifts on a 70+ kilometre journey on rural roads and found thatreturned a better than usual figure of 5.6; but till not brilliant. I havemucked around with cruise control and didn't find any noticeable difference inmy car.

Am I just being too picky to be expecting better fueleconomy?

[kaanage]

Sadly, your report is in line with the experiences of UK Polo 6R 66kW TDi owners. The issue seems to be the implementation of the DPF is poor so a lot of fuel is "wasted" due to frequent regeneration cycles. In addition, the low end torque seems to have been tuned out, probably to prevent driving below 1900rpm to avoid even more frequent regen cycles. This means that you don't get to drive in the diesels most economical rev range.

As a comparision, my 9N3 Polo TDi, which has the 1.9 PD engine with no DPF, can be driven off idle (literally - I often shift up at 1500rpm) and I get around 5.5l/100km around town and 4.5l/100km in the country. Preeny's Caddy uses the same engine

[gldgti]

I think that gldgti is suggesting that a driver can get better economy than the cruise control as the driver can make small speed adjustments anticipating changes in the terrain (eg increase speed a bit downhill to help roll up the next hill while bleeding off a bit of speed) rather than just holding at a set speed all the time. This makes your fuel economy figures even more impressive.


exactly. What i'm really arguing is basic physics - its more efficient to do as kaanage described above than to keep the same speed. even going +5 to -5 from your cruising speed from the bottom of a hill to the top saves you fuel.

[rearrange]

Gees mate you should be able to beat those numbers.... :)


Thanks Preeny ... maybe I should try towing a Mk1 Golf on a trailer behind me everywhere? ;)

[kaanage]

Just did a trackday and the Polo still stayed under 12l/100km despite my best efforts to stay on full throttle for as much of the time as possible.

[5pot]

I managed 966km in my '05 Golf 2.0 TDI between Melbourne and Sydney. No fuel light either so I reckon I could have broken 1000 fairly easily before needing to refuel.

[Preen59]

Thanks Preeny ... maybe I should try towing a Mk1 Golf on a trailer behind me everywhere? ;)

Maybe! I have new figures with proof from towing the Mk1 back home. I'll load the picture later.

[gldgti]

I have a 6R TDI Polo with DSG [With all the options, whichmakes it heavier than the standard] and I haven't really been overly impressedwith the fuel economy so far [I only use Caltex Vortex Diesel]. The brochurestates combined fuel consumption of 4.6, urban 5.5, and extra urban 4.0; so farI have done nearly 4,000kms and have average 6.0 in total; which includes fourtrips of 400+ kilometres and I have only seen a figure in the high 4's once ortwice.

I was told that once the motor bedded in a little the fuelperformance would improve, but there is no sign of it yet.
Yesterday I tried manual up shifting and using the DSG onthe downshifts on a 70+ kilometre journey on rural roads and found thatreturned a better than usual figure of 5.6; but till not brilliant. I havemucked around with cruise control and didn't find any noticeable difference inmy car.

Am I just being too picky to be expecting better fueleconomy?

The engine wont be really nice and loose and with good compression for quite a while - 20,000km at least before it gets nice and bedded in.

[William_Foster]

Thanks for the tip GLDGTi; I will keep an eye on it over the long term.

[Preen59]

As promised..

Here's proof of the mileage. This was towing a car trailer with a Mk1 on the back. A few heavy parts in the car. In the Van i had a full Mk1 Golf front clip, 2 GT3 seats, some other random parts, a tool bag and my gear. I ended up with 7.4l/100km over the intire trip. Pic is as I was cruising up the Hume. Actual GPS speed said 107km/h.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/248606_10150216965773007_686043006_6972091_4512225 _n.jpg


And here's the milage from a trip to Forbes on Tuesday..

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247254_10150218435808007_686043006_6986827_963140_ n.jpg


Tell me your pruis can do that. Go on.. :P

[rearrange]

As promised..

Here's proof of the mileage. This was towing a car trailer with a Mk1 on the back. A few heavy parts in the car. In the Van i had a full Mk1 Golf front clip, 2 GT3 seats, some other random parts, a tool bag and my gear. I ended up with 7.4l/100km over the intire trip. Pic is as I was cruising up the Hume. Actual GPS speed said 107km/h.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/


And here's the milage from a trip to Forbes on Tuesday..

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/


Tell me your pruis can do that. Go on.. :P

I'm jealous. I'm going to print that out and show it to my Caddy on the hope that it is embarrassed :)

[kaanage]

Get a remap - then you will get more torque at low rpm (as well as more power at high rpm) so you can shift earlier and use less accelerator. Plus it makes the whole car (van) more fun to drive, although you WILL use more fuel if you use the extra top end all the time.

Plus try a good (TC-W3 or JASO FB or higher) 2 stroke oil @ 200:1 in your fuel since you don't have a DPF.

[kaanage]

Not bad for a tankful with no country mileage (used the vent cheat on fillup so 55 litres). The skinny tyres that I've now fitted will get more out of the next tank
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/fuelrangeJPG-1.jpg

[hiho]

Drove from Keith to Melbourne on 20l with worn tie rod ends when I picked up the 1.6TD. Thats just on 4L/100kms at 120km/hr.

[harlie]

Well I'm starting to think we need much more than 1000km to a tank to make VW diesel ownership worthwhile.

Our pampered 2.0tdi golf died in the peakhour city traffic last night, delivered to Austral VW on a truck, I've been quoted $4800 for injectors - "VW state that all should be replaced if 1 fail" - extended warranty ran out 3 weeks ago.

I'm now thinking that $4800 buys a hell of a lot of extra petrol!

[Evaded Motorsport]

Remove it from them, get it to JMAC and source some injectors from overseas.

I'll do some looking and source the parts for you. You obviously have one of the models with all the dramas. Greg Roles may be able to help you out as well.

[harlie]

Thanks for that, one Q - who is JMAC?

[Transporter]

Thanks for that, one Q - who is JMAC?

View Profile: Jmac - VWWatercooled Australia (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/members/jmac/) :)

[kaanage]

Our pampered 2.0tdi golf died in the peakhour city traffic last night, delivered to Austral VW on a truck, I've been quoted $4800 for injectors - "VW state that all should be replaced if 1 fail" - extended warranty ran out 3 weeks ago.

Looking at your post history, I see you have the ordinary 103kW PD :(
Even through the thread is for the ending in the 125kW GT, have a look at http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f28/103kw-125kw-tdi-pd-piezo-siemens-injector-failure-thread-54215.html and maybe register in the group that Greg Roles has set up. You'll see that some people have successfully argued for splitting the cost on injector (and loom) replacement after warranty has recently expired

[Mofo]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/09/IMAG0012-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/09/IMAG0013-2.jpg

This was at the end of my weekly commute from Brisbane to the Goldy. Got to the Nerang BP with DTE 0 and a smile on my face :banana:
As we all know, the l/100km is always very optimistic, in real terms my overall tank was 4.98l/100km but I was still a little gutted I couldn't break the 4 in the first shot!
That'll probably be my last great tank for a while, with the heat hitting in the last few days, the aircon will take the edge off my economy runs.

[gokartgti]

Great readings you guys are getting...

[Buller_Scott]

Tell me your prius can do that. Go on.. :P

can someone explain the prius to me please?

so.... it's better for the environment / more fuel efficient, because in addition to using normal petrol, some big fcking diesel powered excavation equipment digs up a whole bunch of dirt and places it into the tray of a huge fcking diesel powered tonka truck, all the way over in the mines where my dad's a consultant in indonesia.

from there, the coal gets extracted from all that dirt, and it's sent on a 12 km long conveyor belt out to one of the ships waiting at port. once this ship is full, it makes the ~1000's kilometer journey to australia, where it's processed at a power station into electricity to be put into the power grid, which you use to fuel your prius...

so how, exactly, is that beneficial to the environment?

the amazonian tribes that are saved each and every time someone drives their prius - are they saved when the massive CAT mining truck fires up in the morning? or when the cook serves breakfast to the crew who are taking the coal that is required to fuel a prius, to a country 5,000km's away?

[stickshift3000]

can someone explain the prius to me please?


The prius is just a means for people to feel a little bit better about themselves as we all fvck the planet up well and proper together.

Yes, car companies claiming to produce environmentally friendly cars is ironic in its own right...

[gldgti]

so my wife who is still on her L's drove the octavia for the first time about a week ago. with her driving, half country roads and half freeway (at 80km/h) we were averaging 4.4l/100km (200km drive)

i know we all know it, but it does make a difference to drive a little slower :-) (ok a lot slower)

also, in the 10,000km i've done with the octavia, i'm certain that it uses between 5-10% more fuel using the cruise control compared with my foot, for my daily commute (hilly freeway).

still havn't managed to crack the 1000km tank yet but i'm sure if i actually try I will, easily... but I'm getting about 950/tank without trying.

[5pot]

can someone explain the prius to me please?

so.... it's better for the environment / more fuel efficient, because in addition to using normal petrol, some big fcking diesel powered excavation equipment digs up a whole bunch of dirt and places it into the tray of a huge fcking diesel powered tonka truck, all the way over in the mines where my dad's a consultant in indonesia.

from there, the coal gets extracted from all that dirt, and it's sent on a 12 km long conveyor belt out to one of the ships waiting at port. once this ship is full, it makes the ~1000's kilometer journey to australia, where it's processed at a power station into electricity to be put into the power grid, which you use to fuel your prius...

so how, exactly, is that beneficial to the environment?

the amazonian tribes that are saved each and every time someone drives their prius - are they saved when the massive CAT mining truck fires up in the morning? or when the cook serves breakfast to the crew who are taking the coal that is required to fuel a prius, to a country 5,000km's away?

You forgot that they need to mine for the NiMH batteries' raw materials too... and then they have to recycle them somehow, if they're recycleable at all... or rather, if it's economically/financially viable to recycle them...

[Gigitt]

You forgot that they need to mine for the NiMH batteries' raw materials too... and then they have to recycle them somehow, if they're recycleable at all... or rather, if it's economically/financially viable to recycle them...

read this... a quick link
The Prius Bad for the Environment? (http://helenathegreat.hubpages.com/hub/Prius)

Main issues relate to:
Dust to Dust study from Total cost of Production to End Of Use.

Then there is the outrageuos Prius battery raplacement program costs to concider.

[wai]

can someone explain the prius to me please?
The Prius and just about all hybrid vehicles are there so that vehicle manufacturers can meet their fleet average gas mileage targets. There is no account taken of the initial charge in the batteries or where the charge came from. As a result, they start the test with fully charged batteries.

[ParaBul]

read this... a quick link
The Prius Bad for the Environment? (http://helenathegreat.hubpages.com/hub/Prius)

Main issues relate to:
Dust to Dust study from Total cost of Production to End Of Use.

Then there is the outrageuos Prius battery raplacement program costs to concider.

This is an interesting topic that's been discussed in various forms on countless websites over the last few years. I've never had much time for the Prius, but because I now need a new car, and will benefit from fuel efficiency, I had another look at Toyota Hybrids, and even test-drove a the Lexus CT200h (hybrid) - and pick up a Golf GTD this Friday. :D

However, I do think that the Toyota hybrid system is something that people love to hate, and it has received unfair treatment.

The "Dust to Dust" study has been strongly criticised, and is suspect at best. Something like http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf is a much more scientific assessment.

In my (limited) experience, I noted that the "Dust to Dust" supporters love to talk about the Prius highway economy; a friend of mine owns a Prius, and reports that highway returns the worst economy. Why won't critics talk about city cycle economy, where the hybrid system is supposed to be best?

I had long thought that a replacement battery pack for a Prius is $10k; the Lexus sales rep assured me it's only $2k - but he is a car salesman, and I didn't get it in writing, so I don't know that I should trust him. :) Is $2k outrageous? Volkswagen told me I should budget $1k for a 60k km service, so $2k after 10 years doesn't sound totally outrageous to me.

It also occurs to me that the original criticism looks at the US market, after shipping the Prius from Japan, and presumably shipping it back again. What happens if the same assessment is performed in Japan, and the H3 has been shipped across the Pacific twice?

I believe that the batteries are recyclable, but how much of the nickel in any given battery is "recycled", I have NFI. I noticed a criticism of the amount of copper in the motors; how much of that is recycled?

Critics of electric vehicles also love to talk up the coal fired power stations creating the electricity (incidentally, much of the coal is mined here in Australia, even if it is crap coal). But Australia also has significant gas powered, hydro, and wind power, so (theoretically) the pollution created in order to generate electricity is reducing, and the current proposed carbon tax / ETS will effectively tax that pollution - but it won't be taxing the pollution that comes from my exhaust pipe. Regardless, in the context of the Prius, who cares? The Prius charges its batteries from its on-board internal combustion engine, so coal-fired power stations are irrelevant.

OK, I think I'll stop now. And before anybody gets too upset, I didn't buy a hybrid - they're too slow.

[sparkie]

Can we get back on topic please? This is a thread about how far people have been getting on one tank of fuel, start something about hybrids vs TDis yourselves (please!!)

[gldgti]

Last tank I ran BP dino diesel instead of biodiesel (got to 0km range and chickened out 10km from my usual servo with B100). Fuel economy for the dino tank was the same on average as my normal b100 average, a little surpised about that. Smoke out the back was up though, and the idle was a little rougher.

without wanting to be responsible for someone putting bad fuel in their lovely TDI, i'd almost say anyone who knows a good quality biodiesel outlet should feel safe enough using it in their PD TDI.... but ofcourse I wont actually say that, will I? :-D

[Buller_Scott]

would conservo fuel qualify as good quality BD? there're a couple of outlets in melbourne.

[gldgti]

would conservo fuel qualify as good quality BD? there're a couple of outlets in melbourne.

thats not something I can answer unfortunately.

As has always been the case, there's still no enforcement of the australian standard. The standard itself exists, and it requires the biodiesel to be as good or better than any european standard for biodiesel (which VW warrant) - so if you know the fuel conforms to the standard, then it should be just fine.

Whether it conforms is really entirely up to the producer/distributor. In my case, I've been able to use the fuel over a long period of time in cars that it didnt matter so much, and found it to be excellent. That, coupled with the fact i've mentioned before that the servo that i get the fuel from has awards for fuel storage clenliness.

As a start, it might be worth your while getting a 5l jerry can full of it, put a jar of it in the fridge and see what happens...As i remember fuel conforming to the standard shouldnt jell above about -6, but its easy enough to google around and find the standard and check. (try starting at dutchaussies website).

Try asking the proprietors about their fuel storage etc... you never know, they might be very helpful. Ask them about how much of it they sell and who buys it, and if they have lots of regular customers.

[Buller_Scott]

thanks for the info gld!

i think for the mean time i might persevere with the usual suspects in terms of fuel outlets, and keep poppin that 2 stroke in the tank.

i DO like the idea of biodiesel though. we're all fcking up the planet in some way, but if i can reduce things a little (i only buy recycled toilet paper, refuse to buy bottled water etc)....

[5pot]

If you want a place that manufactures and sells to the likes of Caltex, try Biomax in Laverton North. They manufacture here and sell a bio-dino mix at a bowser that they have on-site. It ranges from B5 to B20, depending on the season. They set their price ten cents below caltex's diesel price I think. Something like that anyway.

Be aware though, the nozzle they have at the bowser is too big for a MkV golf. I learned that the hard way. Twice.

I've got dino in my car at the moment but I ran a couple of tanks of B10 just prior to my last re-fill and the car ran fine. It still conforms to the diesel standard so, I don't see why it would be bad for your vehicle. Economy was the same for me. I'll be heading there for another tank once I've used my current tankful.

I'm curious what 100% bio would do in my car but I don't have the cash to stump up for a new motor/injectors/other fuel-related part of choice so, I'm sticking to the bio-dino mixes for now!

FYI, this company has a MkV TDI (1.9? it has no reference to the capacity of the engine so, I assume it's the 1.9) Golf that they run on the same mix that they sell at their bowser.

[kaanage]

Phil Buggee has run a Fiat Punto TDi on Biomax B20 in quite a few competitive events over the last couple of years like Targa Tasmania and the Adelaide Tarmac rally with no ill effects.

[Dave198]

I haven't read every post in this thread about economy and biodiesel and stuff, but I have a MY07 2.0 TDI and it says on the inside of the fuel flap, 'Not for Biodiesel'.
I guess there is a reason for saying that, but I am not sure why.
I am also a bit surprised how many want to run their tanks dry to see how many K's they get out of a tank.
The lower the level of fuel in the tank, the more chance there is of picking up some accumulated muck off the bottom of the tank.
As good as the filters are, a minute bit of muck in the fuel could cost you an injector, especially with CRD. Deep pockets needed there.
In my opinion, play it safe and only run down to about half a tank and then fill up again. It is still very easy to work out your lts. per 100 kms that way.
I also have a 12HT powered Landcruiser and never let that go down below quarter of a tank.
I figure that I have to fill up at some stage, and there is less likelyhood of condensation in the tank if it is kept fairly full.
cheers

[Gigitt]

I haven't read every post in this thread about economy and biodiesel and stuff, but I have a MY07 2.0 TDI and it says on the inside of the fuel flap, 'Not for Biodiesel'.
I guess there is a reason for saying that, but I am not sure why.
I am also a bit surprised how many want to run their tanks dry to see how many K's they get out of a tank.
The lower the level of fuel in the tank, the more chance there is of picking up some accumulated muck off the bottom of the tank.
As good as the filters are, a minute bit of muck in the fuel could cost you an injector, especially with CRD. Deep pockets needed there.
In my opinion, play it safe and only run down to about half a tank and then fill up again. It is still very easy to work out your lts. per 100 kms that way.
I also have a 12HT powered Landcruiser and never let that go down below quarter of a tank.
I figure that I have to fill up at some stage, and there is less likelyhood of condensation in the tank if it is kept fairly full.
cheers

Fuel is picked up from the bottom of the tank, so I don't see the logic in not using all the fuel in your tank... other than in areas where there are hot days and really cold nights and condensation can form inside the tank - then water sinks to bottom of tank... then thats what your water tap is for on the fuel filter!

[gldgti]

There's a lot of other threads about bio....

I typically use a tank a week and pretty much always take about 50L to fill it up, in a 55L tank. With such high turnover of fuel, I see no problem with running it low. Perhaps if I was using a tank every month or so I would think differently.

Do a search around about biodiesel and you will see than every VAG car after about 2003 has that written inside the fuel cap (if its a TDI) and it has nothing to do with the car's ability to be fuelled by biodiesel - rather it has to do with the operators ability to fill it with high quality compression ignition fuel. I'm an old hand with bio so I know the risks :-)




I haven't read every post in this thread about economy and biodiesel and stuff, but I have a MY07 2.0 TDI and it says on the inside of the fuel flap, 'Not for Biodiesel'.
I guess there is a reason for saying that, but I am not sure why.
I am also a bit surprised how many want to run their tanks dry to see how many K's they get out of a tank.
The lower the level of fuel in the tank, the more chance there is of picking up some accumulated muck off the bottom of the tank.
As good as the filters are, a minute bit of muck in the fuel could cost you an injector, especially with CRD. Deep pockets needed there.
In my opinion, play it safe and only run down to about half a tank and then fill up again. It is still very easy to work out your lts. per 100 kms that way.
I also have a 12HT powered Landcruiser and never let that go down below quarter of a tank.
I figure that I have to fill up at some stage, and there is less likelyhood of condensation in the tank if it is kept fairly full.
cheers

[Dave198]

gldgti, I am not sure what you mean about "it has to do with the operators ability to fill it with high quality compression ignition fuel".
Does that mean that I am a goose if I don't know what is high quality fuel?
Quoting from page 46 in my Tips & Maintainance manual. " Your vehicle is notsuitable for use with RME (biodiesel) and must not be filled up or be driven with RME fuels. If you use RME fuels your fuel system could be damaged."

I did not join this forum to have a go at anybody, I joined it to learn a bit about my newly acquired TDI.
I have been around diesels for about 40 years and I have seen recently someone who has a damaged fuel system due to a bad bit of fuel.
They had to sell their vehicle because they could not afford the $10K plus repair bill.
I haven't got that amount of money either to spend on repairing the fuel system. If the book says my engine is not suitable for Bio, that's good enough for me.
cheers

[kaanage]

gldgti is saying that VW are applying a blanket restriction because they don't trust people not to use dodgy home brewed biodiesel and want to avoid ANY warranty arguements that could be caused by this.

I'm not saying that all home made biodiesel is dodgy but there are no regulations on making the stuff so an idiot could just pour in oil collected from back of the local fish and chip shop, have the car run for a short while and then try and make a warranty claim when it all went pear shaped.

[kaanage]

Got 3.7 l/100km (trip computer avg) on the 15k run home from work today. Allowing for the 7.5% optimism of the trip computer vs measured mileage, that's less than 4 l/100km on a route that isn't dead flat :)

[gldgti]

gldgti, I am not sure what you mean about "it has to do with the operators ability to fill it with high quality compression ignition fuel".
Does that mean that I am a goose if I don't know what is high quality fuel?
Quoting from page 46 in my Tips & Maintainance manual. " Your vehicle is notsuitable for use with RME (biodiesel) and must not be filled up or be driven with RME fuels. If you use RME fuels your fuel system could be damaged."

I did not join this forum to have a go at anybody, I joined it to learn a bit about my newly acquired TDI.
I have been around diesels for about 40 years and I have seen recently someone who has a damaged fuel system due to a bad bit of fuel.
They had to sell their vehicle because they could not afford the $10K plus repair bill.
I haven't got that amount of money either to spend on repairing the fuel system. If the book says my engine is not suitable for Bio, that's good enough for me.
cheers

I wasnt having a stab at all - I was trying to say what kaanage was referring to - VW can't guarantee (in many countries) that if you fill up with biodiesel it will conform to a standard - as such they have to say not to use it.

If you know your fuel source and you know its good, then there's no reason a PD engine can't run perfectly well on it - but thats a risk to take, for sure.
Personally, I know the risks, I know the fuel, and if anything should go wrong I know I can fix it for the cost of parts, and I'm willing to take that risk in my position - but I never said anyone else has to or should.

I read that part of my user manual too - i read all my manuals.... I'm "that guy":http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/11/P1010541-1.jpg

[transporterq]

Just completed the trip to Melbourne and back for the VW show, was a great show. Used just over half a tank of diesel there and about the same to get back. Did not record anything on the way over, but just filled up, taken 40 litres and covered 727.1 Km's, that’s around 5.5 L per 100 Km's, if my sums are correct. It has taken a few more days to gat back, but I will post that reason in the "103kW/125kw TDI PD Piezo Siemens injector failure thread" soon.

[kaanage]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/01/fuelrange1-1.jpg
Lost my nerve at 1201km today coming home from the Melbourne monthly cruise and poured in the 10 litre carry can of diesel I was carrying. Then filled up at a servo at 1277km with a total of 60.74 litres of fuel.

Based on the 4.76 / 100km average mileage (about 75% suburban, 25% cruising), the car had used 57.1 litres of fuel when I chickened out - pretty good for a car with a 45 litre fuel tank!!

[gldgti]

holy cow.... assuming you can squeeze about 48-49 L in there, your looking at 4l/100km... thats incredible for the real world.

Hang on now I'm really confused.... you put in 10l from your jerry can, and you put in 60.74 at the pump.....minus about 4l for your 77km.... so your fuel tank is holding 66 odd litres?

Somethings gone astray :-) (perhaps in my head)

[ian]

I'm just happy that i can fill in Sydney and drive to Brisbane and still have enought fuel to drive around before i have to fill up .in my GT sports

---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------


holy cow.... assuming you can squeeze about 48-49 L in there, your looking at 4l/100km... thats incredible for the real world.

Hang on now I'm really confused.... you put in 10l from your jerry can, and you put in 60.74 at the pump.....minus about 4l for your 77km.... so your fuel tank is holding 66 odd litres?

Somethings gone astray :-) (perhaps in my head)
The tank holds 55 litres but you can squeze in a couple of extra litres/

[gldgti]

pretty good for a car with a 45 litre fuel tank!!

^^^this is whats confused me^^^

my octavia is supposed to be 55l but I can often put in 55-57l.... assuming theres some fuel left, it must hold a little more.

[kaanage]

Hang on now I'm really confused.... you put in 10l from your jerry can, and you put in 60.74 at the pump.....minus about 4l for your 77km.... so your fuel tank is holding 66 odd litres?

Somethings gone astray :-) (perhaps in my head)

Sorry, the 60.74 litres includes the 10 that I added from the can at 1201km. At the servo when I was at 1277 km, I put in 50.74 litres.
From the average mileage (60.74 / 1277 * 100 = 4.76 l / 100km), I reckon that I had used 57.1 litres at the 1201 km point (60.74 / 1277 * 1201).

Still pretty happy with the mileage, given it's real world use - I do work it hard for economy so it's nice to see it work.


^^^this is whats confused me^^^

my octavia is supposed to be 55l but I can often put in 55-57l.... assuming theres some fuel left, it must hold a little more.
The Polo is supposed to hold 45 litres in the tank but if I vent it (you can do this in the MkIV Golf and 9N Polo while filling up) then you can put in about 10 extra litres. Obviously the Polo holds a bit more than 45 litres even when filled normally :)

[ohammond]

Hey all,

Picking up my Mk VI 103TDI DSG tomorrow hopefully - so it will be interesting to see how it compares to my Mk V 103TDI 6sp Manual - especially given that the VI has the sports pack fitted.

Having rattled off 380K+ in less than 6 years in the MkV i've had the chance to see a lot of 1000km+ tanks (adjusted for GPS) with a best run of 6 consecutive tanks with the last one being 1112km. Regularly saw it into the low 4's/high 3' per 100km over 100+km distances (Coffs to Newcastle @4.0 at the bowser)- with a best of display value 2.6L/100 from Moss Vale to the start of the F3.

[gldgti]

wow, those are great numbers.

almost makes me consider trying to sell my octy 1.9 to get a 2.0l..... nah.

[jazd]

All I can say is that you must drive extremely slow...

[jamie88]

My lowest was 3.9. Newcastle to Sydney. With mum in the car lol

[ohammond]

You don't have to drive slow to get good economy - Lake Macquarie to Wahroonga returns 4.5-4.7L/100km and averaging 100-105.
That 2.6 figure was averaging 100 and was done seeing how low i could get it - that said its quite easy to get into the 4's and high 3's on the open road sitting on 100kph just by driving smooth and pre-emptively.

[gt_pumbz]

I average 5.3 to 6/L country/freeway about 70% of the time.
I juss got my gt sport recently so im still enjoying it :D have to drive at least 22km to catch up with friends.
But for some reason i can squeeze 365k from full to 3/4 then the fuel gauge goes on a binge session...
But still happy with the economy for now :D


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-37.492986,145.070386

[sparkie]

Way back in 2008, I started this thread about Tdi economy, and I've been keeping a tab on things ever since. Today I finished the best run I ever did, 1070 kms in one tank, and I still had not run out, although it was getting hard to start for some reason. My journeys are all on the Sunny Coast Hinterland so a fair few hills and not many long highway runs, and after the first few days I wasn't even trying to get an economy run; so air con was used and little coasting to junctions, etc. I filled the tank to the brim again and put in 42.1 litres into a 40 litre tank, that makes 25.41 kms to a litre or less than 4 litres to 100kms! This is a 1996 Tdi with 240,000 kms on the clock!!! Modern diesels are only now getting that kind of economy, with all the bells and whistles they have in terms of fancy electronics (although I must admit my engine has an electronic EMS. Gotta Love Tdi Economy

[kaanage]

Modern diesels are only now getting that kind of economy, with all the bells and whistles they have in terms of fancy electronics

Also add in all the çrap that modern cars have to lug around for safety, emissions, comfort... There is a study that points out cars in general haven't improved in average economy over the last 30 years (I guess the big '70s V8/inline 6 family cars get balanced out by the SUVs)

[Gigitt]

You have been robbed!!!

Mk3 have 55lt fuel tanks. with 7lt being reserve.

[vk]

You have been robbed!!!

Mk3 have 55lt fuel tanks. with 7lt being reserve.


I have a MK5 Gt Sport TDI
And driving from the mornington peninsula to the city on eastlink and monash, I can usually get this:
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/02/A8rsR-1.jpg

And here is my recent tank (including city driving and local driving)
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/02/fijzm-1.jpg

I feel like my fuel economy might just be too good, maybe something is wrong with my car :D
The lowest I have seen it is 3.8 on the way to bendigo!

[gt_pumbz]

Far out, best i can get is 950 and that was travelling to n from rosebud to nothern suburbs in melb 4 times within a week. Guess alot of hill roads chewed up heaps. Ive got the same car as you, best out of a 1/4 from full was 360 then it juss binges, u got mods on your car??


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-37.492876,145.070310

[vk]

Far out, best i can get is 950 and that was travelling to n from rosebud to nothern suburbs in melb 4 times within a week. Guess alot of hill roads chewed up heaps. Ive got the same car as you, best out of a 1/4 from full was 360 then it juss binges, u got mods on your car??


---
I am here: Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-37.492876,145.070310)

No mods mate. Rns and Sub if that small battery drain counts for anything. This was from about 140km a day to city and back including traffic on monash :s

[stormshark]

Far out, best i can get is 950 and that was travelling to n from rosebud to nothern suburbs in melb 4 times within a week. Guess alot of hill roads chewed up heaps. Ive got the same car as you, best out of a 1/4 from full was 360 then it juss binges, u got mods on your car??


---
I am here: Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-37.492876,145.070310)

Wow that's still pretty good,I'm normally around 8-850km although seems getting better with more km(98k now),mainly hwy driving although does get some stick!Are you last 2 gts manual.

[vk]

Wow that's still pretty good,I'm normally around 8-850km although seems getting better with more km(98k now),mainly hwy driving although does get some stick!Are you last 2 gts manual.


Nah mate I am DSG as well!

[gt_pumbz]

Im a dag unfortunately, its the only spec that was missing from my list,

[gt_pumbz]

Lol fat fingers... DSG


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-37.492392,145.070168

[sparkie]

You have been robbed!!!

Mk3 have 55lt fuel tanks. with 7lt being reserve.

Wow, that's weird, I spent a good while rocking the car as I filled it to ensure there were no air bubbles. I'll just have to do another test run and run it right out!

[Gigitt]

Wow, that's weird, I spent a good while rocking the car as I filled it to ensure there were no air bubbles. I'll just have to do another test run and run it right out!

dont forget you can vent the tank to get more in... flick the little plastic button just inside the fill hole and it releases air out of the expansion return line - it can give you 4-5 lt more in the tank.

When I run the tank into the low red I can fill it about 53-56 lt vented to the brim.

[gt_pumbz]

I usually refill half into red, but i dont vent incase i overfill it lol. I always fill to the nearest litre. Eg 51.3 ill go to 52
Not enjoying the fact that the price never drops inline with fuel prices. Taxes upon taxes


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?b1x2od

[Mysticality]

Due to work pay day, I fill up once a fortnight.
Averaging around 1,700km/f'night... 3 jerry cans in the garage and the 55ltr tank lasts. Just.
I think the most I put in it in total was 125ltrs; halfway into red.

Averaging around 6.7L/100km according to behind the dash.
Averaging around 6.7L/100km according to fuelly.
:D

[gldgti]

Towing a tinny for 300km down the highway at 100-110km/h, I got 7.2l/100km yesterday. Also roofracks with fishing rods ontop and plenty of tools in the boot. The bloomin boat causes a lot of drag - barely notcied it at all around town or up hills, just makes lots of high speed drag!

PS - this was in the octavia of course

[owenvcox]

yep, love TDI economy.
Ive managed 6.7 for a 600km round trip in my Kombi Beach. The best thing is, the more gear you put in the fuel economy gets better as the T5 rolls as soon as the road points down hill, and its heavy to start with.
Ive found the Volkswagen specified combined average (8.2 per 100) is spot on for the Beach.

[gldgti]

yep, love TDI economy.
Ive managed 6.7 for a 600km round trip in my Kombi Beach. The best thing is, the more gear you put in the fuel economy gets better as the T5 rolls as soon as the road points down hill, and its heavy to start with.
Ive found the Volkswagen specified combined average (8.2 per 100) is spot on for the Beach.

I reckon too much weight in the octavia makes the economy a bit worse just because of the change in attitude..... some eibachs coming soon to fix that though!

I;ve noticed with all my diesels that they get better highway fuel economy after they have been lowered :-)

[kaanage]

Driving home last night at 7pm (just past peak traffic), mainly on major roads
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/03/120327distance-1.jpg http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/03/120327mileage-1.jpg
Even allowing for the worst case of recorded MFD optimism (going by refill/distance vs MFD mileage) of 10%, that's still better than 4l/100km:banana:


I;ve noticed with all my diesels that they get better highway fuel economy after they have been lowered :-)
As well as the other changes, Bluemotion models are lowered vs normal ones.

[gldgti]

Driving home last night at 7pm (just past peak traffic), mainly on major roads
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/03/120327distance-1.jpg http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/03/120327mileage-1.jpg
Even allowing for the worst case of recorded MFD optimism (going by refill/distance vs MFD mileage) of 10%, that's still better than 4l/100km:banana:


As well as the other changes, Bluemotion models are lowered vs normal ones.

Good work!

As for the bluemotion cars - I thought they looked a bit lower but I couldnt be sure. I saw a passat bluemotion the other day and htought it looked very sporty indeed.

[kaanage]

On EXACTLY the same route, I could only manage an indicated 4.2 l/100km today :P

Mind you, I was an hour earlier so had to wade through the midst of peak hour traffic :rolleyes:

[sparkie]

Best run ever, filled the 1996 Mk3 Tdi to the brim as directed, zeroed the trip counter, ran 1202 kms on a 55 litre tank, equals 4.58 l/100km, I could have gone another 50km or so but I chickened out! Now to try again an economy run - no air con, coasting down hills etc!

[maxrob200]

Read that a couple in US did an economy run in a stock Mk6 Jetta manual and got 2600km out of a single tank! Well. I tried to drive economically last week in my Mk 5tdi manual and damn all I got was a measly 30km over my 1000km normal range. I didnt turn off airconditioning etc - creature comforts are needed in winter, just made sure I shifted early and in a higher gear and didnt rev hard at all. Back to my normal driving!

[Gigitt]

Read that a couple in US did an economy run in a stock Mk6 Jetta manual and got 2600km out of a single tank! Well. I tried to drive economically last week in my Mk 5tdi manual and damn all I got was a measly 30km over my 1000km normal range. I didnt turn off airconditioning etc - creature comforts are needed in winter, just made sure I shifted early and in a higher gear and didnt rev hard at all. Back to my normal driving!

I doubt that.
55lt 2600km = 2.11 lt/100k = 133.59 mpg
that is a guiness record

I read years ago a new Land rover Defender130 300TDI in Australia did a record braking trip on 1 fill up something like 1600-1700km... was not till you read that they fitted the factory extra extended fuel tanks giving them 70lt standard tank + 100lt ext tanks = 170 lt... it still averaged 10-11 lt/100km which is the average we all get in them (I have a Defender130)

[jazd]

I doubt that.
55lt 2600km = 2.11 lt/100k = 133.59 mpg
that is a guiness record
Thats exactly what it was haha. And it was 84 mpg.

VW Passat Sets World Record for Distance Traveled on a Single Tank | AutoGuide.com News (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/vw-passat-sets-world-record-for-distance-traveled-on-a-single-tank.html)

They were a couple that have been doing efficiency driving records for ages, and it was all certified with a sealed fuel cap et al.

[wfdTamar]

Here's the world record (it was in a Passat)

2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI SE Sets World Record for Distance on One Tank of Fuel (http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/05/2012-volkswagen-passat-tdi-se-sets-world-record-for-distance-on-one-tank-of-fuel.html)

84.1 MPG (US gallons) = 101 MPG (UK gallons) = 2.796 litres per 100 km

Fuel Consumption Calculator (http://www.markporthouse.net/rangie/fuelconsumptionconversion.htm)


A 2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI SE with the six-speed manual has just set the record for maximum range on one tank of fuel with an astounding run of 1,626 miles. The Passat with the 6MT is officially rated by the EPA at 43 mpg highway, 31 city and 35 combined and has an 18.5 gallon fuel tank. Estimated highway range for the Passat is 795.5 miles.

The trip from Houston, Texas to Sterling, Virgnia took John and Helen Taylor, "The world's most fuel-efficient couple," three days over which they averaged 84.1 mpg. The Taylors swapped drivers frequently and never drove more than 14 hours per day. Assuming they drove exactly 14 hours per day and stopped for a total of 45 min per day, we're looking at an average speed of something like 41 mph. On the highways the Taylors said they did exactly 60 mph. To properly simulate "real" use, the Taylors also loaded the car with 120 pounds of luggage.

The Taylors are self proclaimed driving efficiency experts and hold over 90 fuel economy and driving records around the world and have made a living from conducting fuel-efficient driving workshops.

Previously the record was held by a VW Passat 1.6 BlueMotion diesel in Europe.

[maxrob200]

Yep, thats the one! That is a ridiculously low amount of fuel used for the distance covered! Two up with 120 lbs of luggage and at 60mph average!

[gldgti]

Here's the world record (it was in a Passat)

2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI SE Sets World Record for Distance on One Tank of Fuel (http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/05/2012-volkswagen-passat-tdi-se-sets-world-record-for-distance-on-one-tank-of-fuel.html)

84.1 MPG (US gallons) = 101 MPG (UK gallons) = 2.796 litres per 100 km

Fuel Consumption Calculator (http://www.markporthouse.net/rangie/fuelconsumptionconversion.htm)


A 2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI SE with the six-speed manual has just set the record for maximum range on one tank of fuel with an astounding run of 1,626 miles. The Passat with the 6MT is officially rated by the EPA at 43 mpg highway, 31 city and 35 combined and has an 18.5 gallon fuel tank. Estimated highway range for the Passat is 795.5 miles.

The trip from Houston, Texas to Sterling, Virgnia took John and Helen Taylor, "The world's most fuel-efficient couple," three days over which they averaged 84.1 mpg. The Taylors swapped drivers frequently and never drove more than 14 hours per day. Assuming they drove exactly 14 hours per day and stopped for a total of 45 min per day, we're looking at an average speed of something like 41 mph. On the highways the Taylors said they did exactly 60 mph. To properly simulate "real" use, the Taylors also loaded the car with 120 pounds of luggage.

The Taylors are self proclaimed driving efficiency experts and hold over 90 fuel economy and driving records around the world and have made a living from conducting fuel-efficient driving workshops.

Previously the record was held by a VW Passat 1.6 BlueMotion diesel in Europe.

"Self proclaimed" - and rightly so I reckon :-)

Thats awesome.

I got a 982/tank in the octy last week.... thats pretty good for my weekly rout. Also, there was a 300km chunk of that tank where I had 6x 4.8 sticks of 90x45 framing timber AND 7 sheets of zincalume corrugated steel roofing sheet on the roof racks :-)

[wfdTamar]

Trying to think what they could have done to decrease their consumption (besides the usual techniques). Drive only on flat interstate highways. Wait for a tailwind. Ask around at a truckstop diner for a truck going a long way that you could draft behind (or do it anyway).

I've got 5.5 at 110kmph easy in my car which is the PD version of their engine (in a Skoda wagon 4x4). I could see getting 4-4.5 at 100kmph if I was a bit careful, so being extremely careful I could imagine it feasible to get low to mid 3's.

Here's their site:

http://www.fuelacademy.com/

They used a special fuel on a round the world trip (and used 'Shell Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel' on the US trip).

'The Taylor’s car ran exclusively on fuel containing our new Fuel Economy Formula which contains a Synthetic Viscous Friction Improver, formulated to help reduce friction right at the heart of the engine, helping minimise energy waste.'

They got 3.13 in a Peugeot 308 HDi Diesel round Australia.

Tips on the site for fuel saving (nothing revolutionary).