Whiteline RSB + Liftoff Oversteer

[shaneth]

With one of the other threads going slightly off topic i thought i would start a new thread so we can discuss it properly. For those that have it, what are your thoughts. PLease elaborate on all details. And please NO BICKERING, if you differ in opinion then so be it, everyone is entitiled to there opinion.

Personally like i have said before, one of the cheapest and effective suspension mods i think you can do. Have never experienced any oversteer at all and that is on the hardest setting.

[Flaps]

I have mine on the medium setting and I get lift off oversteer on the track.

[GT3]

Has happened, but once you know the threshold, you can avoid it/back off in time.

[99gti]

Not a polo but I can hang my rear end out like a drift car on a 90 degree bend :D

Just control the front with the throttle and keep the rear out - loads of fun.

[Timbo]

I think the key word is "unintended" :driver:

[99gti]

Lol - the first time it happened it was. Subsequent attempts were self induced

[VW GTI]

With one of the other threads going slightly off topic i thought i would start a new thread so we can discuss it properly. For those that have it, what are your thoughts. PLease elaborate on all details. And please NO BICKERING, if you differ in opinion then so be it, everyone is entitiled to there opinion.

Personally like i have said before, one of the cheapest and effective suspension mods i think you can do. Have never experienced any oversteer at all and that is on the hardest setting.

Shaneth, could the fact that your car doesn't have enough power (yet) be the reason you haven't experienced it?

[philthy]

Had a fat whiteline RSB on my mazda astina. Was fun but as noted by others had a tendency to make the car snap oversteer in a big way.

Went round a corner in the wet one night a bit quick and the back end let go and smacked into the gutter. That's called learning the hard way.. (stuffed pretty much the whole rear suspension)

I'm sure the sway bar would be fine if you set the rest of the suspension up to suit, but on its own I agree that it's dangerous. Never again.

[Blitzen]

I have had mine on for a few months now and love how it has made the car handle...After reading what was said in the other thread this morning, a couple of mates and I went for a bit of a drive out to Litchfield National Park, and had a bit of fun through the windies out there. The speed limit out there is 130km/h, and varying degrees of tightness to the corners(long open flat out corners, to tight 2nd/3rd gear corners, many tightening), and I really tried to get some lift off over steer(really tried!!), and had nothing...I did however find out my mates Mazda 323 Familia GTR 1.8T AWD is no match for a Polo GTI on semi slicks in terms of acceleration and cornering...:biggrin::biggrin:
I think if you are going to track your car alot or compete in tarmac rallies, you might want to think twice about adding it, but for day to day driving and weekend windie stuff fun, I personally think it is a great addition to the car.
Also, I (ME) really think whether the car has been chipped or not wouldn't have too much of a difference to the way the car handles the rear sway bar. I think that tyre choice and driver abilitly have more of a bearing on it. I have found though, that the Rear Sway Bar had made it easier to scandi flick into corners on the Continentals, but it is much harder to do on the Federals.

[MACCAA]

Talk about urban myths!
Timbo and I have extensively tested RSB's at Wakefield,Winton and Eastern Creek..
We have had ZERO handling problems with it on it's stiffest setting.Even attempts to upset the handling with trail braking and lift off into corners have failed.
Please don't tell us of other makes of cars with rsb's and handling problems.The variables[tyres,pressures,shocks,alignment ]are such as to make any comments meaningless.
All things being equal,a correctly set up Polo GTI with a RSB is very forgiving.
We have done the testing and our results lap-time wise prove it.
If you're having problems with a RSB you need to look a bit further at set up or driver input...
Cheers
Len

[VW GTI]

Talk about urban myths!
Timbo and I have extensively tested RSB's at Wakefield,Winton and Eastern Creek..
We have had ZERO handling problems with it on it's stiffest setting.Even attempts to upset the handling with trail braking and lift off into corners have failed.
Please don't tell us of other makes of cars with rsb's and handling problems.The variables[tyres,pressures,shocks,alignment ]are such as to make any comments meaningless.
All things being equal,a correctly set up Polo GTI with a RSB is very forgiving.
We have done the testing and our results lap-time wise prove it.
If you're having problems with a RSB you need to look a bit further at set up or driver input...
Cheers
Len

You should at least say 'in my opinion' rather than pretending that what you've said is gospel. Maybe you don't have the driving skills to be able to make it happen, or the rest of your set up made it non-existent.

[Flaps]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/06/ih017029-1.jpg

[MACCAA]

You should at least say 'in my opinion' rather than pretending that what you've said is gospel. Maybe you don't have the driving skills to be able to make it happen, or the rest of your set up made it non-existent.

Whatever.....

[MACCAA]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/06/ih017029-1.jpg

Ha Ha Ha Flaps
Cheers
Len

[99gti]

Take a chill pill and relax u lot...

[DaveMack]

I've had mine on the stiffest setting for more than six months, tracked it at Morgan Park and had no problems (maybe I didn't lift off enough in the corners :biggrin:).

One thing I would add is ... there is such a thing as approaching a corner too fast ... and if you are not prepared to admit that (at least to yourself), you WILL come to grief sometime either from snap oversteer or simply understeering right off the corner (and perhaps over a ledge ... voice of experience here :duh:).

Dave

[Blitzen]

I have had mine on the stiffest setting the whole time. The only way to fly!! I really don't know what all the fuss is about...The thing is the dogs bollocks.

[Bubu]

When I spoke to Whiteline about getting my a RSB for my Charade (this is where somebody will say its not relevant because its not a Polo), they said they recommend getting the front one done also or I may experience some rear oversteer. I realise that a RSB helps the front bite harder and turn in but too much of that can cause your FWD car to oversteer.

I dont yet have aftermarket swaybars fitted to the Polo so I cant comment on the Polo. But in theory a really stiff RSB can cause oversteer.

[GoLfMan]

i get bloody induced oversteer in my 97' Polo with no sway bar

its just how you drive it you can induce oversteer in basically anything

[GT3]

Whiteline

Swaybar size. The swaybar size that we, and most aftermarket companies, specify is only the physical size/diameter of the material. This however does not indicate the rate or resistance of the swaybar, as there are other factors that would need to be accounted for to be calculate the rate. These are the width and length of the swaybar, whether the swaybar is made from a solid bar or a hollow tube and the strength properties of the material used. In simple terms, the longer the swaybar the softer it will be, and the shorter the bar the stiffer the swaybar will be.

Swaybar rate/stiffness. Even if the swaybar rate is known, it in itself is still of little relevance to the overall outcome and handling balance of the car. This is because handling balance depends on the swaybar and swaybar link installation and motion ratio, and by applying all these factors it is only then possible to finally end up with swaybar roll resistance.

Once the swaybar roll resistance has been established, and adding spring resistance and suspension mechanical resistance, it is possible to work out the total roll resistance which determines the handling balance.

I think you can see that this is starting to get quite complicated. As you are aware, most vehicles are designed with and understeering balance. This is because it is a safe state, but is not necessarily fast. However, this is easily fixed by fitting a larger rear swaybar.

To sum up, for your car we have designed a rear swaybar only to be used together with the original front. The result is reduced body roll and understeer by balancing the total roll resistance between front and rear of the car, without actually inducing oversteer.

Wojtek Rogulski (Polo GTI RSB developer)

[GT3]

Balancemotorsport.co.uk

Uprating the bar at one end only means that pair of tyres must carry a higher load. Depending on the handling balance of front to rear this will either increase or decrease outright grip. For example on a Mk4 Golf if you uprate the front bar only the car will reduce it's outright grip level as it already has too much front roll stiffness and not enough rear. To make the Golf Mk4 handle you need a stiffer rear bar only.

This is the case for most front wheel drive cars - uprate the rear bar - which makes the rear of the car work more and prevents understeer. If you bought front and rear you would tend to run the front soft and the back hard. In a rear wheel drive car you'd tend to uprate the front bar more than the back as you can steer with the throttle. Four wheel drive vary between these two depending on a number of factors including torque split. For example Audi Quattros need rear bar only in most cases. Another factor to consider is feel - body roll can be nauseating so adding anti-roll bars makes the drive more pleasant, again without ruining ride.

Go too far on the bar which is connected to the driven wheels and you will run into traction problems. This is why you tend to uprate rear bar on FWD and front bar on RWD. However do bear in mind that increased grip can come not only by optimising the tyre loads front to rear but also by better geometry underload. Excessive body roll on most macpherson strut cars causes unfavourable geometry change - eg loss of camber and caster. A stiff anti-roll bar combination will keep the wheel closer to it's optimum angles.

Another big plus of the anti-roll bar is they are often easily adjustable. You may have spent a lot of time and effort setting up coilovers to ensure the best weight distribution, you then find for instance the front end is understeering on a tight circuit you've not visited before. It is much easier to adjust an anti-roll bar than change the springs.

[Timbo]

The (current) Polo (GTI) is fundamentally an understeering car, both through its layout as a FWD car with much of its weight over the front axle, and by design, because understeer is regarded by all mfrs as a 'safer' handling characteristic than oversteer.

Despite this, it is still possible to induce an oversteer reaction in the stock GTI...but doing so involves some fairly abnormal driving actions.

If you wish to drive on a track or in any form of handling event, or even a bit faster on the road, most experienced drivers want to reduce the understeer characteristics of the car, and fitting a RSB is the easiest and cheapest way of doing this. Whiteline seem as good as any others I've fitted; it's a good Aus product and I know Whiteline undergo extensive testing (are there others for the Polo GTI available in Aus?)

Having fitted the RSB -- yes, the GTI's natural understeering characteristics are reduced and yes, there is a greater susceptibility to oversteer. Indeed, as above, it is even easier to induce some oversteer reaction...but basically, doing this still involves some "unnatural" driving acts to unbalance the car mid-corner. It's not something anyone should experience in normal -- even 'spirited' -- driving.

So, does fitting a RSB lead to "unintended" snap oversteer on the GTI? I say "NO". But I am not saying that you cannot induce snap oversteer on the GTI, even with no RSB.....just that in doing so one must have acted unnaturally (or failed to act sensibly) to induce the situation.

The RSB and "snap oversteer" issue goes way back to something Lams banged on about on Vortex, relating to a MkIV Golf GTI fitted with a RSB. I recall asking at the time what other factors were present during that situation (ie, was it wet, what were the tyres like, were pressures up to scratch, was the rest of the suspension OK) but I don't recall seeing an answer (he may have...just don't recall seeing it).

Finally, the Golf GTI is quite a different car to the MkIV GTI, as anyone who has searched for suspension parts knows. It has different weight distribution, as is the case with Astinas, Charades etc. So, while it is always useful to draw on those experiences, they are not necessarily precedents.

[DaveMack]

That about covers it, Timbo. :)

Dave

[shaneth]

Well said timbo. And i couldnt agree more.

[mitch_gti]

I wont go into too much depth, but after the swaybar upgrade the polo was a very different car to drive.

After a couple more changes like springs, slightly higher pressures and front strut brace the polo handles EXTREMELY well.

Its hard to tell just driving around town, but a recent cruise through old pac and berowra opened my eyes to what the modified polo is capable of.
What an incredible little car (after you spend some cash on it)
I could not find its limits and it always felt safe, very neutral and I had zero understeer.
Also, it was great exploring the higher gears which you normally dont get to experience.

Would love to take this car to a track.

[DaveMack]

Would love to take this car to a track.

DO IT! You won't regret it! :biggrin::driver::biggrin:

Dave

[Blitzen]

. :biggrin::driver::biggrin:

Dave[/QUOTE]

I didn't know the Polo GTI had a Maclaren F1 seating set up!!:nana:

[DaveMack]

. :biggrin::driver::biggrin:

Dave

I didn't know the Polo GTI had a Maclaren F1 seating set up!!:nana:

Hehehe ... mine does (well ... in my mind when I'm on the track). :biggrin:

Dave

[Guy_H]

I think Timbo & Len & ~ 10 years each track experience helps them out a little!

I agree, wrong tyre pressures, unknown roads, approaching corners too fast - certainly most QLD' drivers can probably remember a case of "snap oversteer" that sent a certain Golf over on its roof on a drive day a while ago.

Mind you, on the track it pretty hard, all that lovely consistent surface, lots of room for error - stuff you don't get on a mountain road.

Good place to demonstrate it is on a big skidpan with lots of room & try some high speed "moose" maneuvers - for those who have not experienced it, it will become clear very quickly.

Suggest everyone tries to get out on a skidpan to see what their car can do!

Here is Al walkers quick demonstration of lift off oversteer in an R32:

(and yes, it happens that quick)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGQHXeBNw7U

[FL00DY]

Yeah I think it has as much to do with driver skill and control as it does the RSB.

Either way I think for such small $$$ the RSB is a must, once you learn the differences and limits of the car.

[Timbo]

With respect, Guy, I think care needs to be exercised as to whether those incidents were attributable to the fitment (or not) of a Whiteline RSB to those cars, as that is the implication of your post above. And that is the specific topic of tis thread and poll.

There are corporate reputations involved here, as I'm sure you'll appreciate :)

[FL00DY]

Here is Al walkers quick demonstration of lift off oversteer in an R32:

(and yes, it happens that quick)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGQHXeBNw7U

Whilst I know Al is rather experienced in that kind event, it seems he was perhaps a bit quicker then he should have been.

[Guy_H]

Whilst I know Al is rather experienced in that kind event, it seems he was perhaps a bit quicker then he should have been.

And the rear was too stiff for this type of circuit.

Timbo, I'm on your side, but you must admit there is a hell of a difference between saying car X is good at Wakefield while car X may oversteer on a windy mountain road with a different surface & no room to cross the double white lines?

[VW GTI]

Guy, does power/torque have anything to do with experiencing it?

ie: would a car with lots of power experience snap oversteer more easily than the same car without the mods?

[Guy_H]

Not really Sam, its more how & when you apply it (like at the wrong time) - remember trying to drive that MR2 with bald tyres around the skidpan? - zero power & multiple spins (and that was trying to get it onto the skidpan :biggrin:)

[VW GTI]

remember trying to drive that MR2 with bald tyres around the skidpan? - zero power & multiple spins (and that was trying to get it onto the skidpan :biggrin:)

I didn't get to drive it, they retired it cos of the metal showing through the rubber problem before it got round to me. Let's just say I would have been able to handle it - no-one can prove otherwise for the moment :)

[Timbo]

Timbo, I'm on your side, but you must admit there is a hell of a difference between saying car X is good at Wakefield while car X may oversteer on a windy mountain road with a different surface & no room to cross the double white lines?

I'm not saying that. What I am trying to address is the general contention which seems always to be sourced back to comments by Lams and you, that fitting a Whiteline RSB to a Polo GTI will lead to unintended snap oversteer. IMO, there's no evidence to support the contention, which maligns -- generally -- the beneficial effects of fitting of RSBs to Polo GTIs, and specifically, Whiteline.

In my opinion, based on extensive evidence driving on both road and track, and backed up by the experience of MACCAA and others, fitting a Whiteline RSB to the Polo GTI will reduce the more extreme understeer characteristics of the stock car without giving rise to any increased risk of unintended snap oversteer during normal or even 'spirited' road use. The exception to this (as illustrated by the Al Walker video) is where the driver makes radical changes in direction at speed and unbalances the car...the consequences of which can hardly be pinned back to the RSB! :duh:

[FL00DY]

I'm not saying that. What I am trying to address is the general contention which seems always to be sourced back to comments by Lams and you, that fitting a Whiteline RSB to a Polo GTI will lead to unintended snap oversteer. IMO, there's no evidence to support the contention, which maligns -- generally -- the beneficial effects of fitting of RSBs to Polo GTIs, and specifically, Whiteline.

In my opinion, based on extensive evidence driving on both road and track, and backed up by the experience of MACCAA and others, fitting a Whiteline RSB to the Polo GTI will reduce the more extreme understeer characteristics of the stock car without giving rise to any increased risk of unintended snap oversteer during normal or even 'spirited' road use. The exception to this (as illustrated by the Al Walker video) is where the driver makes radical changes in direction at speed and unbalances the car...the consequences of which can hardly be pinned back to the RSB! :duh:

I love these new smilies :D :moonie:

[MACCAA]

We didn't just try it at Wakefield,Guy.Also at Eastern Creek and Winton.I think between the three tracks we covered just about every type of corner!
I did my level best to provoke it,braking into corners and backing off but to no avail.Actually,I was suprised just how benign it was!
You're too kind mentioning my 10 years track experience.....but it's more like 30.......
I think that if you're inducing this type of handling on public roads,you seriously need to slow down.Come along to a track day and do it safely.
Cheers
Len

[Timbo]

You're too kind mentioning my 10 years track experience.....but it's more like 30.......

MACCAA and I are currently searching far and wide for suppliers of RSBs for Zimmer frames j::biggrin:

[Guy_H]

Well Tim, I'm sorry I will have to disagree with your point here:

Inherently VW designed the Polo to be a safe car - understeer by its nature teaches & warns you to back off - thats why VW do not install a device that makes ANY of their cars oversteer or anything close (even the more sporty R32 - understeers like a pig in standard form).

Remember the giant Audi TT recall in 1999 - The recall changed the front control arms, put a stiffer front swaybar in & a smaller rear bar (as well as a boot spoiler) to fix the high speed lift off oversteer problem it had (cost Audi hundreds of thousands), but after two deaths from memory, the writing was on the wall.

The journalists hated it, they liked the "sporty" handling before the modifications - but if you watch Top Gear or Fifth Gear or read Motor - the only good car is one that will oversteer full lock on a racetrack :).

Your car & Lens have a host of modifications on them, including suspension, brakes, wheels & tyres (or a combination of some of them).

I have to agree with VW in this case, for the average Polo owner, on average Australian roads, with stock tyres (and pressures checked every service or so) - adding a sway bar will (in this case) make the car perform outside its design parameters. VW set the suspension as it is for a reason.

We have had customers (and we get many with various driving skills) have "offs" - I can guarantee you that I have 3 that did a rear sway bar only mod, and had "unintentional" spins on public roads. one did major damage, one did minor damage, the third was lucky & didn't hit anything.

One way to test it independently is to use Safe Drive Training up here in Brisbane - they do all of Fulcrum suspensions "test" work after it leaves the R&D department. They do a combination of high speed & low speed maneuvers.

Instead of arguing about it, why not supply two polo's & have them blind tested by a pro? - I am sure there are benefits to mods, but I have seen too many people have accidents & I don't want any of my customers ending up in a box.

http://www.sdt.com.au/about-safe-drive-programs-sus.html

[Guy_H]

P.S. - our little Polo also did a bit of track work & testing without any swaybars - it never had understeer, nor oversteer at any of the tracks we went to - it cut a 1.12 at Morgan Park, and it also cut a pretty good time at Fairburn Hill climb too which is fast & technical.

My co-driver even stuck two wheels in the dirt off the outside of turn one (?) at Eastern Creek at 200 plus - he had to back off & managed to pull it back in (brown stains) - so it handled pretty well.

Disclaimer - we did have semi slicks, PSS9 coilovers & all drivers had a fair bit of track experience too. :nana:

[shaneth]

I have to agree with VW in this case, for the average Polo owner, on average Australian roads, with stock tyres (and pressures checked every service or so) - adding a sway bar will (in this case) make the car perform outside its design parameters. VW set the suspension as it is for a reason.


Yes but whiteline designed the RSB to compliment the rest of the car without making any other mods. I understand if you dont want to recommend them to your customers but the way it is read here is if you put a rsb on your car your going to have an off, no questions asked.

And i agree vw sets parameters for a reason, but generally that is for the everyday joe blow who cant drive a car to save his life can get in one and not have an accident. And i think the majority of car manufactures would do this.

[Guy_H]

I'm not going to take the thread off track and I have not seen any of the Whiteline testing procedures & how they set up their test Polo for high speed maneuvers (Shane - maybe you can ask them for their test procedure please).

But no - I would never recommend one to any Polo customer (ANY BRAND) unless it had a balanced, matched front one. - That goes for Golf V, R32, Golf IV as well.

personally I would rather see the money spent :

A: Upgrade polo Brakes
B: Upgrade spring rates & Dampers (matched

Anyone is welcome to stick one on, its not how I would advise my customers to spend their cash.

[99gti]

I'm not going to take the thread off track and I have not seen any of the Whiteline testing procedures & how they set up their test Polo for high speed maneuvers (Shane - maybe you can ask them for their test procedure please).

But no - I would never recommend one to any Polo customer (ANY BRAND) unless it had a balanced, matched front one. - That goes for Golf V, R32, Golf IV as well.

personally I would rather see the money spent :

A: Upgrade polo Brakes
B: Upgrade spring rates & Dampers (matched

Anyone is welcome to stick one on, its not how I would advise my customers to spend their cash.


Hence why I did both at the same time :D

If I'm not being a silly bugger and induce over steer, I will generaly get all 4 wheels drfting before either end lets go. In short, it gives me more than sufficient warning to say slow down...

[MACCAA]

Getting two cars tested[one with,one without] would be a good idea,Guy.
Whilst I agree Timbo's and my car are somewhat modified....there are a couple of stockers down here who have fitted rsb's and then ventured on the track and are happy with the results.
I do a bit of driver training occasionally,and there's no way I'd recommend a mod that I thought could bring someone unstuck.
I'd be interested to see a two car test as you suggest.Maybe you could do it at one of your drive days under controlled conditions.
Speaking of your drive days,when are you coming back to NSW??
Cheers
Len

[FL00DY]

I'm not going to take the thread off track and I have not seen any of the Whiteline testing procedures & how they set up their test Polo for high speed maneuvers (Shane - maybe you can ask them for their test procedure please).

But no - I would never recommend one to any Polo customer (ANY BRAND) unless it had a balanced, matched front one. - That goes for Golf V, R32, Golf IV as well.

personally I would rather see the money spent :

A: Upgrade polo Brakes
B: Upgrade spring rates & Dampers (matched

Anyone is welcome to stick one on, its not how I would advise my customers to spend their cash.

What the? $200-$300 for a RSB against $1000-$2000 for the two mods you just mentioned? That makes no sense.

However I agree that a driver, say a red P plater, installing an RSB is crazy. Guy I think the point that some are making is that flat out ignoring an RSB as a decent mod is wrong. We all have different skill levels and an RSB wont be right for everyone. It's entirely possible that those customer you mentioned could have had those spins with or without the RSB. Like I said earlier, I only had it once through a round-a-bout, I didn't spin but it was a shock and my heart was in my throat. Did I learn what I did? Sure did. Did it reduce my times on the track? Well I think it did, but it also could have been learning the track.

Maybe it's something in the water in QLD :D

[Timbo]

However I agree that a driver, say a red P plater, installing an RSB is crazy.

Interesting point. Seems it's OK to sell some P plate drivers mods like an ECU reflash :eek: Without any consideration about brake mods :duh:

Personally, and from what I've read, I reckon fitting a RSB to a Polo GTI is less risky :frown:

This is not a line of argument I wish to pursue, but I am sure you get the point.

[FL00DY]

Interesting point. Seems it's OK to sell some P plate drivers mods like an ECU reflash :eek: Without any consideration about brake mods :duh:

Personally, and from what I've read, I reckon fitting a RSB to a Polo GTI is less risky :frown:

This is not a line of argument I wish to pursue, but I am sure you get the point.

This is true also. Not to hi-jack the topic, but along with all the restrictions on P platers, maybe they need to be fully licensed to be allowed to have any kind a of performance mod.

[Timbo]

:brutal: don't go there, Floody (I can feel the heat already :eek: )

[GT3]

I'm too accustomed to my WL RSB now, but these were my observations immediately after installing and testing one:

"A Whiteline adjustable rear sway bar was fitted to my Polo GTI yesterday and I did some extensive testing/driving with it fitted.

Here's the pros and cons:

On the positive side - it dramatically stabalises the car when cornering, eradicates the bounce and excessive roll and understeering characteristics of the stock Polo GTI. Once I became familar enough and accustomed to the car's new handling dynamics, I was able to drive the car at a much faster speed, which indirectly makes the car a hell of a lot faster. I had it on the softest setting and I don't understand why you'd want a harder setting, there is virtually no sway or roll whatsoever. It's also got neutral handling characteristics - very race car like.

On the negative side -

There is quite a significant transfer and distribution of weight as a result of the increased load directed to the rear. It "feels" as if the rear of the car is raised and the steering has become very light and less direct. Not sure I like that. It's as if there is no flex left in the rear to respond and balance things out. It's ok once you get used to it, and a good (and wise) driver will know when the car is reaching its traction limitations, but otherwise, it provides a false sense of security (zero roll) and a less experienced driver would easily exceed the car's handling threshold and lose it unintentionally. No probs if you're a race car driver but ....

In conclusion, I have mixed feelings about the sway bar. It's difficult to go back to a stock set up once you've driven the car in the new stable and well, much faster mode. But it comes at price - safety !! ..and you'd have to drive it carefully in the wet because who knows where that traction threshold is in wet conditions."

[Guy_H]

It will be hard to test - I would have hoped that Whiteline would have already tested it.


Yes but whiteline designed the RSB to compliment the rest of the car without making any other mods. I understand if you don't want to recommend them to your customers but the way it is read here is if you put a rsb on your car your going to have an off, no questions asked.


Do they also make a front swaybar too? how do they reason that adding one on the rear makes athe Polo perfect & adding one on the front would make it dangerous again? - I really stand by my comment, regardless of driver experience.

I suppose the best test would be having to do a lane change at 100kmph - they do this at the large vehicle maneuvering area at Mount Cotton - those who have done the SDT days (level 2) would have experienced this.

This is something that could happen to any driver on the highway at any time, those who have done it know that a stock polo will BARELY make this lane change with an experienced driver - the ESP goes nuts & shuts the cars down in an effort to keep it in a straight line.

How many people here have had to do an emergency lane change at highway speeds in a Polo GTI ? (either in real life or at driver training?) - I know I have, & certainly Sam, Eddy and quite a few others that have done the SDT days.

Maybe we should start a poll on that :)

I also agree that chipping some cars (Polo) can also make them a handful to an inexperienced pilot. I suppose the only saving grace is the brakes, as poor as they can be at times, will at least pull you up from high speeds well once (generally not time & time again).

And a lot of it all comes back to driver training for the L plates, they just don't teach you accident avoidance when you get your "L" plates do they? (Its been a long, long time since I got my "L" plates :frown: )

[Timbo]

It will be hard to test - I would have hoped that Whiteline would have already tested it.

Do they also make a front swaybar too? how do they reason that adding one on the rear makes athe Polo perfect & adding one on the front would make it dangerous again?

AFAIK, Whiteline undertake quite considerable testing, but I'll let them or their agents respond, if they choose to.

Yes, they make a 22mm front, either fixed or adjustable; the rear is 20mm and again the choice is fixed or adjustable. Adding one to the front just dials back in some understeer, so it's "safe" (although if you've ever experienced the plough understeer of a HQ Kingswood or most 4WDs, how it can be described as "safe" eludes me :eek: ). Personally, I wouldn't bother although I would simply comment that replacing the stock front bar with an adjustable one at least gives more options.

As to that manoeuvre...have you tried it in a Porsche 911?

[Guy_H]

As to that manoeuvre...have you tried it in a Porsche 911?

You mean a "widow maker" :biggrin: yes I have. Give me a 997 Turbo with lots of electronics any day :)

[Flaps]

I would have hoped that Whiteline would have already tested it.

Since my car(ex Ash's) was the 'test' car for WL sway bars on a Polo, I doubt it. :???:

[insanekiwi]

I had rears fitted first, and liked the better 'turn in' response. Did have one scary episode of almost having snap oversteer on windy road.

Now I have fitted the front sway bar (whiteline) as well, and feel the car is more balanced. It won't try to oversteer like before, but feels more controllable, able to corner with more confidence and knowing what to expect...

I am happy with both front and back. Track day was only done with both fitted, and the car felt really balanced and never felt unsafe at any point. Never felt the snap oversteer either with it.
:driver:

[GT3]

Apparantly this is Timbo and MACCAA in action testing the WL RSB. As you can see, no snap-oversteer :biggrin:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5rpMzEnIfzE&feature=related

..and WL gave the thumbs up after seeing how well the RSB worked on this Polo:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9QVL7kkhkJs&feature=related

[GTIJNR]

On the negative side -
but otherwise, it provides a false sense of security (zero roll) and a less experienced driver would easily exceed the car's handling threshold and lose it unintentionally.
and you'd have to drive it carefully in the wet because who knows where that traction threshold is in wet conditions."
[/I]

When its snap oversteer depending who drive what and doing whatever i rather b safe than sorry... i rather slam a wall slightly head on "under under" than wack it side way or in the asss "over...SH*&T over"... wierd huh, may be i'm unexperienced lol.
its a cheap mod and great value for money but on high speed or uncontrolled public (wet)road ... dunno
and y making ur rear end more dependent like?

[GTIJNR]

I would definitely put a RSB on to have fun on a track but will REMOVE it for every day else i'm on public road...