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View Full Version : Diesel Prices today wtf??? 30c dearer than regular ULP



STV4SYT
19-05-2008, 10:25 AM
Just noticed this morning on the way into work, Todd Rd Servo, which is usually the cheapest around here 139.9 for ULP and 169.9 for Diesel. thats over $90 to fill it up!!!

Time the ACCC upped their act.

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217

Follow the link to lodge a complaint and hopefully get something done about this gouging as they call it.

Cheers

Steve

Logzy
19-05-2008, 01:06 PM
it really is absolute BS.:mad:
8 months ago Diesel was around + or minus 5c.
Now its 25c to 30c dearer.

I have followed the link to the toothless tiger who watches and does nothing, fo what its worth.:???:

STV4SYT
19-05-2008, 01:13 PM
Yep, ive been driving diesels in this country for about 3 years, and all along the diesel has been around and about the same as ULP, it has historically stayed pretty static with none of the weekly cycles just increasing as the median ULP increases and falling again when ULP falls. It has stopped falling.

What really surprises me is that there isnt more shouting coming from the transport industry.

Its got to be hurting them a lot more than it's hurting us.

neil
19-05-2008, 01:53 PM
Yep, ive been driving diesels in this country for about 3 years, and all along the diesel has been around and about the same as ULP, it has historically stayed pretty static with none of the weekly cycles just increasing as the median ULP increases and falling again when ULP falls. It has stopped falling.

What really surprises me is that there isnt more shouting coming from the transport industry.

Its got to be hurting them a lot more than it's hurting us.

Might I suggest you petrol lovers complain as well.
Its Diesel trucks that deliver your cars, fuel and groceries.
The increase on everything is being blamed on higher transport costs and thats
because of the increase of diesel costs.

Roobuls
19-05-2008, 02:06 PM
When crude oil comes into a refinery the refining process commences and the crude oil gets converted to useable fuel. The first stage of the process is that diesel is made. Then that is refined further to make petrol and other things. So it's not the refining process that is costing more !!!

Greg Roles
19-05-2008, 03:06 PM
Fair enough, but this is like paying a premium for a 2008 wine, vs something 10 years old. It's bullocks all round. I too followed the link, and all i can say is shop off the beaten track, I have found diesel even at BP 10 cents a litre cheaper in out of the way suburbs compared to the main road BP's on the same day. I am filling when I see a price rather than the car letting me know!

OvaltoJetta
19-05-2008, 03:32 PM
I paid 164.9 last Friday after searching the WA fuelwatch website (soon to be implemented nationally). I refused to pay 179.9 (until I'm forced to) that I saw when going to fill up at BP.

But at less than 10c per klm, the Jetta is still cheaper to drive per klm than a petrol Corolla.

VW Convert
19-05-2008, 03:38 PM
But at less than 10c per klm, the Jetta is still cheaper to drive per klm than a petrol Corolla.

Not to mention much more fun too! :)

Cheers

George

STV4SYT
19-05-2008, 04:19 PM
Cheapest today is

BP corner Heatherton Road and Hosken Street Springvale South 3172 161.9

Im just glad i got 3/4 tank left. should get me past pay day.

GoLfMan
19-05-2008, 05:25 PM
i cant believe the Aussi government isnt cracking down on this!
as has been said before all our transport industry is reliant on diesel, and its the cheapest to produce!

i think the oil complanies are just taking advantage of the fact that diesel passenger cars are becoming more popular

Greg Roles
19-05-2008, 05:32 PM
I think it's more the fact the transport industry is mainly all locked into contracts for fuel, and the rest of diesel users form a small minority. As oil prices rise, they can ease off the rise on the ULP majority, and squeeze the heck out of the diesel minority. It's all down to money and who will complain the loudest, in MHO anyway.

Or you can believe the China demand story....

cetane
19-05-2008, 05:44 PM
Knowns:
* Diesel engines are cheaper to run than petrol engines
* Diesel costs less to refine than petrol
* Because petrol is less dense than diesel, you get more volume from a given volume of crude when you refine it into petrol than you do if you refine it into diesel
* In other countries (particularly in SE Asia and Europe) diesel is king. It has been for years and years, it's we who are catching up
* Go back 20 or 30 years and diesel was always about 10c cheaper per litre than petrol

IN ASIA THE POPULATION IS BURGEONING AND THE EMERGING MIDDLE CLASSES ARE BUYING....DIESEL CARS!

So, it comes down to supply and demand. Our oil price is governed by the Tapis (Singapore) oil price. Automatically we pay more per barrel than the US spot price. Add this all together and you get high prices. You can't blame the Aussie government for diesel prices in isolation as it applies to ALL products of crude oil. If you want to blame anybody, focus on the Asian consumer, the lack of oil refining capacity, the knowledge that oil is running out and the hedge funds and speculators that are using oil as currency because the US dollar is so weak.

Unknowns:
* Just how high the price of diesel Will go..................

gldgti
19-05-2008, 07:02 PM
Knowns:
* Diesel engines are cheaper to run than petrol engines
* Diesel costs less to refine than petrol
* Because petrol is less dense than diesel, you get more volume from a given volume of crude when you refine it into petrol than you do if you refine it into diesel
* In other countries (particularly in SE Asia and Europe) diesel is king. It has been for years and years, it's we who are catching up
* Go back 20 or 30 years and diesel was always about 10c cheaper per litre than petrol

IN ASIA THE POPULATION IS BURGEONING AND THE EMERGING MIDDLE CLASSES ARE BUYING....DIESEL CARS!

So, it comes down to supply and demand. Our oil price is governed by the Tapis (Singapore) oil price. Automatically we pay more per barrel than the US spot price. Add this all together and you get high prices. You can't blame the Aussie government for diesel prices in isolation as it applies to ALL products of crude oil. If you want to blame anybody, focus on the Asian consumer, the lack of oil refining capacity, the knowledge that oil is running out and the hedge funds and speculators that are using oil as currency because the US dollar is so weak.

Unknowns:
* Just how high the price of diesel Will go..................

all true -

and i'd add that a similarly high demand for diesel distillate comes from the war effort in the middle east - the whole US armed forces runs on jet A kerosene (nice clean light diesel) and they are burning up a huge amount right now.

Logzy
19-05-2008, 08:11 PM
all true -

and i'd add that a similarly high demand for diesel distillate comes from the war effort in the middle east - the whole US armed forces runs on jet A kerosene (nice clean light diesel) and they are burning up a huge amount right now.

Last time i checked tanks run on normal everyday diesel.

TDI Dude
19-05-2008, 08:12 PM
Knowns:
* Diesel engines are cheaper to run than petrol engines
* Diesel costs less to refine than petrol
* Because petrol is less dense than diesel, you get more volume from a given volume of crude when you refine it into petrol than you do if you refine it into diesel
* In other countries (particularly in SE Asia and Europe) diesel is king. It has been for years and years, it's we who are catching up
* Go back 20 or 30 years and diesel was always about 10c cheaper per litre than petrol

IN ASIA THE POPULATION IS BURGEONING AND THE EMERGING MIDDLE CLASSES ARE BUYING....DIESEL CARS!

So, it comes down to supply and demand. Our oil price is governed by the Tapis (Singapore) oil price. Automatically we pay more per barrel than the US spot price. Add this all together and you get high prices. You can't blame the Aussie government for diesel prices in isolation as it applies to ALL products of crude oil. If you want to blame anybody, focus on the Asian consumer, the lack of oil refining capacity, the knowledge that oil is running out and the hedge funds and speculators that are using oil as currency because the US dollar is so weak.

Unknowns:
* Just how high the price of diesel Will go..................

Another factor in diesel pricing from Singapore, it that the largest consumer of diesel in Asia is the power industry. The oil companies charge what they want and the big power companies pay it as they have no choice. Further to that... here in Australia all the transport companies get a 15 cents per litre rebate from the Government, this applies to all vehicles over 5 tonnes tare only. So guess who's making lots and lots of money???? Yep you guessed boys and girls a) the oil companies and b) the Australian Government via taxes on diesel. Also the rebate for the transport industry is only given to them as an offset to their quarterly BAS statements (GST).

And you wonder why the watch pussy of a government agency is going to worry about diesel pricing when it affects how many every day citizens???? And on the flip side raises so much more revenue for the government without having to lift a finger or make one new policy statement that maybe seen as hurting their chance for re-election.

Lets face it my diesel friends we use less, pollute less and we pay the most... hmmm doesnt seem right does it!!! :mad:

Spoddy
19-05-2008, 09:41 PM
What really surprises me is that there isnt more shouting coming from the transport industry.

Its got to be hurting them a lot more than it's hurting us.

Not really - the price to the transport industry whilst higher than recent times is still around the $1.30 to $1.34 level.

As for the war - no impact as the oil hasn't come from Iraq for years and years so has no impact these days other than The US now has a steady supply in the country it occupies....

Logzy
20-05-2008, 06:51 AM
Its really amazing how many people believe the rubbish the oil companies are telling us, why the record profits then.??

gldgti
20-05-2008, 07:18 AM
the m1 abrams main battle tank (US ARMY) uses a turbine engine which runs on jet A kerosene.

BeigeJet
20-05-2008, 08:59 AM
Last time i checked tanks run on normal everyday diesel.


the m1 abrams main battle tank (US ARMY) uses a turbine engine which runs on jet A kerosene.

In fact the turbines in M1 Abrams can run on almost any liquid hydrcarbon however they choose to run them on Jet A Kerosene because of the consistent quality of the fuel. The very same fuel used in helicopter turbines. Australia has 59 Abrams tanks now! God knows why. Would been better spending the money on aviation military instead. Sorry a bit off thread.:)

Diesel price in Rowville this morning at Shell Coles Express was 178.9 cpl.:(

Safeway Caltex was 165.9 cpl and Mobil 165.9 cpl.

One day diesel will again be cheaper than petrol! But we might be waiting a while.

STV4SYT
20-05-2008, 09:39 AM
One day diesel will again be cheaper than petrol! But we might be waiting a while.



Lets hope so.

Is anyone brave enough to run Bio in their PD engine?

I saw a mk1 GLD down the street from me that has the "Runs on BioDiesel" sticker on the back.

Logzy
20-05-2008, 09:49 AM
Lets hope so.

Is anyone brave enough to run Bio in their PD engine?

I saw a mk1 GLD down the street from me that has the "Runs on BioDiesel" sticker on the back.

Correct me if I'm wrong but apparrantly the only reason we cant is because of the DPF.
I'd love to though, I'd even make my own just for the fun of it and to say F.U to the oil companies and the Government

Greg Roles
20-05-2008, 11:33 AM
Lets hope so.

Is anyone brave enough to run Bio in their PD engine?

I saw a mk1 GLD down the street from me that has the "Runs on BioDiesel" sticker on the back.

It's certain for my future. Further to Logs above, from what I've read in the erwin study bulletins, the normal golfs get an improved fuel heater for biodiesel overseas. I also recall some other problem that VW mentioned with PD and Bio, but it wasn't a major thing. I'll see if I can find it tonight. I figure with a few specific mods bio would be very usable, and that track is one I will go down in about 3-4 years when I own the car. Running a car on bio is the whole reason I bought the diesel, and plan to keep this awesome little car as fuel prices skyrocket in coming years. I wonder how my old GT Ford will be going then? Weekends probably!

Greg Roles
20-05-2008, 11:37 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but apparrantly the only reason we cant is because of the DPF.
I'd love to though, I'd even make my own just for the fun of it and to say F.U to the oil companies and the Government

I love the way you think mate, and I'll go you halves in the sticker for the back windscreen that says exactly that. In fact, I am rather keen to start a business importing those clever biodiesel units that are popping up all over the UK at the moment Drop your scraps in it everynight, plug it in, and top up your car each morning. About 2000 pounds, which is about a years fuel bill for me.....probably down to 9 months now!

FU to the oil companies indeed!:D

STV4SYT
20-05-2008, 12:18 PM
It's certain for my future. Further to Logs above, from what I've read in the erwin study bulletins, the normal golfs get an improved fuel heater for biodiesel overseas.

So we can run it in summer here then with no mods?

origin
20-05-2008, 02:39 PM
Hi Guys,

Come to 7 eleven at bunnerong rd matraville.. I filled up my passat last weekends..:D

$1.51 /liters.....:o


Cheers
origin

Spoddy
20-05-2008, 07:33 PM
Hi Guys,

Come to 7 eleven at bunnerong rd matraville.. I filled up my passat last weekends..:D

$1.51 /liters.....:o


Cheers
origin

I was too scared to use it - let us all know how the car runs after a few days....
Cheers and here's hoping :)

Spoddy
20-05-2008, 07:34 PM
Hi Guys,

Come to 7 eleven at bunnerong rd matraville.. I filled up my passat last weekends..:D

$1.51 /liters.....:o


Cheers
origin

BTW, they reduce the price to that every day at about 3pm.

STV4SYT
20-05-2008, 08:07 PM
Hi Guys,

Come to 7 eleven at bunnerong rd matraville.. I filled up my passat last weekends..:D

$1.51 /liters.....:o


Cheers
origin

it would take me a tank just to get there and back.....

JustCruisn
20-05-2008, 10:32 PM
I've been looking at getting diesel Jetta but watching the diesel price go up and up has made me think again. Darn fuel companies know how to screw us !!
So now I'm considering a 2yo Jetta Diesel, then convert to run on BIO or even doing a Gas/Diesel conversion.

Some one dig up the info for the conversion for me.



II am rather keen to start a business importing those clever biodiesel units that are popping up all over the UK at the moment

Need a business partner ??

origin
21-05-2008, 12:23 PM
Hi Spoddy,

My Passat is running fine until today 3 days in the row to the office...:D

I drove it hard everyday.. flooring and smoking all the way :D

diesel is diesel.... as long as I don't put bio diesel....it is no like petrol. You need to put premium unleaded otherwise no warranty...

I'll let you know in a month....took me 4 weeks before the next pump....

I wish I got spare tank. I could buy 1000l.....dump it at my front yard....:D

Logzy
21-05-2008, 12:50 PM
diesel is diesel.... as long as I don't put bio diesel....it is no like petrol.


No its not, remember oils aint oils.:n:
I'll only use BP diesel as its currently the only brand with 10ppm sulphur content.
Other brands are 50ppm
The lower the sulphur the better it is for the DPF.

Greg Roles
21-05-2008, 03:17 PM
http://www.biofuelsforum.com/using_biodiesel/427-06_vw_golf_tdi_advice_required.html

I'm getting involved and active on this forum to learn.

Interesting real world take:

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110008/article.html

Greg Roles
21-05-2008, 03:20 PM
Lets hope so.

Is anyone brave enough to run Bio in their PD engine?

I saw a mk1 GLD down the street from me that has the "Runs on BioDiesel" sticker on the back.

You just never know what fools may try!

smithy010
21-05-2008, 04:21 PM
Another factor in price is of course the sulfur level..

Since they've all gone to low sulfur fuel, it requires more processing, or choosing the right crude to start with, therefore increasing the price..

:)

origin
21-05-2008, 05:08 PM
Hi Logzy,

My passat doesn't have DPF... It doesn't make any different to me...

Is it going void my warranty if I don't use 10ppm??:o

I don't have sticker on my door tank if I need 10ppm...It said no bio....

No wonder I got a lot of smoke... 50ppm all the time.....:? Sorry

Greg Roles
21-05-2008, 06:34 PM
Well shyte if LOGZY does it......

BP it is!!:D

( payout disclaimer - already using BP as it is supposedly the highest performing diesel at the moment, and I am after the neddies... )

Logzy
21-05-2008, 07:11 PM
Hi Logzy,

My passat doesn't have DPF... It doesn't make any different to me...

Is it going void my warranty if I don't use 10ppm??:o

I don't have sticker on my door tank if I need 10ppm...It said no bio....

No wonder I got a lot of smoke... 50ppm all the time.....:? Sorry

All i was saying is Diesel is NOT Diesel and different grades (sulphur content) are available.
For the DPF lower sulphur is better as its the sulphur that produces the majority of the soot in the smoke.

mr_walker
21-05-2008, 07:22 PM
Check this link out, and bring up the page for Diesel fuels. And I thought there was only "just diesel".

http://www.caltex.com.au/products_oil_listing.asp?section=1

(I'm limited to Caltex because of my lease Starcard).

Golf Loon
21-05-2008, 09:49 PM
In fact, I am rather keen to start a business importing those clever biodiesel units that are popping up all over the UK at the moment Drop your scraps in it everynight, plug it in, and top up your car each morning. About 2000 pounds, which is about a years fuel bill for me.....probably down to 9 months now!

FU to the oil companies indeed!:D

Do you have a link to one of these?

Couldn`t you import one and get em copied and made here?

cetane
22-05-2008, 06:53 AM
According to this morning's ABC News report, the Indonesians are going to be considerably out of pocket when fuel goes up 28.7% to 65 cents a litre....That's right...65 cents! Apparently, the government has been subsiding fuel for years and now intends to "soften the blow" of rising world oil prices by incremental cuts to this subsidy.... Mmmm....If it's going up by 28.7% then it must have been around 46 cents before. Sure, we know that average earnings over there are only a fraction of ours, and there are a lot of very poor people, but to be paying a third of what we do for fuel does make you wonder. Even with our government's excise (around 38 cents) and GST take (around 15 cents) deducted from the price of diesel (here around $1.80) it brings the price of the product to $1.27. That means the Indonesian government is subsidising to the tune of 62 cents a litre after the 28.7% rise. For years Indonesia was a largish oil exporter, but like everywhere else the oil is running out. I wonder if they're restricting oil exports to provide for their own domestic market? Venezuela is doing the same, WA is preserving natural gas for it's own use....maybe Australia should follow suit before we run out of oil altogether.

cetane
22-05-2008, 07:00 AM
Do you have a link to one of these?

Couldn`t you import one and get em copied and made here?
Loon... the entrepreneur!

Actually, a good mate of mine is working on such a device right now. It's been trialled and it works. He and a couple of boffins at Hobart Uni are building a full scale plant that will turn virtually anything with a high hydrocarbon (fat/wax/oil) content into biodiesel. They already have customers such as abattoirs ready to install the plant and turn tallow and other fat waste into fuel. (Did you know that butchers have to pay for the disposal of their waste fat trimmings?)

OilBurna
22-05-2008, 07:24 AM
the bp refinery in brisbane is making a biodiesel from tallow (ie from cows) already...

Greg Roles
22-05-2008, 02:31 PM
So we can run it in summer here then with no mods?

OK I found the info on why VW doesn't recommend bio. First the upgraded fuel heater as bio solidifies more readily than dino diesel. Secondly, here's the extract from the DPF tech bulletin page 33:

"Operation with biodiesel is not possible. The extended injection period for active regeneration of the DPF can lead to unburnt fuel on the cylinder wall entering the engine oil from the piston movement. Normal diesel fuel vaporises itself out of the oil in normal operating conditions. Biodiesel cannot do this effectively due to it's higher boiling point. The oil is thinned as a result, which can lead to engine damage.

Further if the fuel contians a high level of sulphur, this can lead to impaired function of the DPF with higher fuel consumption as a result of increased regeneration."

It seems the DPF regeneration cycle actively reduces the throttle valve ( air in ), turns off the EGR cooler ( hotter exhaust recycling ) and overinjects diesel all in the name of raising exhaust temps for 10 minutes to burn off carbon buildup in the DPF. It does mention turbo pressures are "adjusted" so the driver notices no performance difference ( interesting!! ) This happens only when the sensors before and after notice a blockage. Removal of the DPF and leaving these sensors to continually monitor a non DPF exhaust section would probably mean this active burn off would never happen. Still if you ran an EGT gauge, I see no reason you couldn't allow for "oil thinning" by watching for any active burn off attempts.

So Steve, seems if you really want to run Bio, ditch the DPF, make sure your fuel heater is up to the task, and make sure the dealer doesn't catch on. Once my car belongs to me in a few years, and I move on from my current "drive a lot" sales role, my golf will become a bio convert, and hopefully a nicely performing one!

Greg Roles
22-05-2008, 02:38 PM
Do you have a link to one of these?

Couldn`t you import one and get em copied and made here?

If you have a look there are plenty being made here already, but I am looking for the more "pretty" and consumer friendly unit I saw a few months back. Trendy people wouldn't be into the agricultural looking ones presently available!

Seems as Autospeed so rightly point out, the problem is finding and collecting the waste oil etc to be used for production. Seems as oil prices rise, this will become more and more sought after.

Perhaps I can start a bio diesel machine import business, and a smiths crisps factory at the same time....hmmm

Anyone own a fish and chip shop??

origin
22-05-2008, 02:52 PM
Ahh ahhh,

Finally someone got it..If I put 50ppm diesel ... I need to drive it like maniac:D

as long doesn't void my warranty... I am fine with it....


Logzy ....We don't have much choice.....only BP.......not like oils , VW is void your warranty for wrong oil...but ain;t diesel....:???:


I guess 7eleven $1.51c......gone.....hopefully next month....:rolleyes:

Greg Roles
22-05-2008, 03:03 PM
Dude, anyone who thinks it's cool to visably pollute and contribute to the crap I have to breathe in when I am out exercising gets my contempt.

OilBurna
22-05-2008, 03:14 PM
mine has no dpf and they still reccommend no bio diesel has a sticker inside the cap. Must be to do with sulphur levels. If you want to risk your engine go for it.

Logzy
22-05-2008, 05:34 PM
Ahh ahhh,

Finally someone got it..If I put 50ppm diesel ... I need to drive it like maniac:D

as long doesn't void my warranty... I am fine with it....


Logzy ....We don't have much choice.....only BP.......not like oils , VW is void your warranty for wrong oil...but ain;t diesel....:???:


I guess 7eleven $1.51c......gone.....hopefully next month....:rolleyes:

God your posts are bloody hard for me to understand.:???:

Greg Roles
22-05-2008, 06:12 PM
Well I just got a phonecall from a lady at the AAAC fuel watchdog that I followed the link here to, and we had a decent chat. I'm quite impressed they take the time to call people personally, or perhaps it's the fact I didn't just write " It's fa rked". Anyway the bottom line was:

As the servo industry is deregulated, servo's can charge what they want. All the AAAC is going to do is have a diesel specific watchdog and monitoring site up by years end, listing specific businesses. Seems they are powerless to put pressure on anyone inflating fuel prices.

Secondly she did point out the fact it is all to do with the Singapore price index as previously mentioned. When I asked about the fact that both low sulphur and high octane ULP basically come from the higher grades of crude, she agreed the price difference isn't really fair.

She did say my point of other departments such as the aircare push and the whole environmental / impact side of things was a great point and was being passed up the chain. She thought if the departments concerned with pollution, emissions etc got involved, there would be more power to try and find reason to favor the latest wave of lower polluting euro diesels arriving on our shores. I pointed out people were actually choosing higher emission vehicles in my little VW world, purely based on diesel costs. She took note of that, and that seemed to be the main reason I got the call.

Anyone else get called, or did you all give them a serve?:D

STV4SYT
22-05-2008, 06:29 PM
Yeah, they called me on tuesday, but i was'nt in a position to have too much of a chat but she basically told me the same thing.

At least they are aware of it, and have the decency to chat to people about it.

BTW i found a trucking magazine in work, and the gov't subsidises diesel by 18.51c per litre. They are talking about removing it, then there will be more impact. though as it is a fixed rebate, 18.51 off diesel at $1 is the same saving as off $1.70 so it is still hurting. surprised more hasnt been done by the trucking industry.

jdd
23-05-2008, 02:35 PM
I just received the following response via email.



Thank you for your email of 21 May 2008 to the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission (the ACCC) regarding the price of diesel fuel. I understand from your complaint that you are now paying $182.5 per litre for diesel and that there has been a 33 cent rise in Melbourne in the last three weeks

The role of the ACCC is to ensure compliance with the Trade Practices Act 1974 (TPA), which is designed to encourage fair trading and discourage anti-competitive conduct through a specific set of competition and consumer protection rules.

Prior to 1 August 1998 the ACCC endorsed the maximum wholesale prices for petrol and diesel of the oil majors and established freight differentials. On that day petrol and diesel prices were deregulated and wholesalers are now free to set their own prices based on market conditions.

The benchmark for diesel is the spot price of Singapore Gasoil (with 50 parts per million sulphur content). There is generally a time lag of around one to two weeks between changes in international prices and changes in retail prices, due to the averaging formula used by refiners in Australia when setting their wholesale prices. This lag may be longer in country areas because fuel stocks are replenished less frequently by wholesalers and retailers in the country due to the lower volume of sales.

This benchmark has recently hit all time high levels, as a result of increased international demand. A significant factor contributing to diesel prices being higher than petrol prices in Australia in recent months is that the international benchmark price for diesel has increased relative to the international benchmark price for petrol. Over the period January 2008 to late April 2008 the price of Singapore Gasoil has been around US$15 per barrel (or Australian 11 cents per litre) higher than the price of Singapore Mogas 95 Unleaded.

Petrol prices in the major metropolitan areas and locations close to them tend to move in cycles. In the case of diesel there are generally no price cycles. This may be because a large proportion of diesel sales are on a contractual basis and therefore not at the pump price.

Further information on this topic can be obtained from the ACCC booklet, Understanding petrol pricing in Australia, which is available through the following link: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/759646.

In response to the increased rise in fuel and diesel prices the Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Competition and Consumer Affairs, the Hon Chris Bowen MP, announced Mr Pat Walker as the Government’s nominee for the new Petrol Commissioner. He also announced that he was asking the ACCC and the new commissioner to commence a renewed focus on LPG and diesel prices. As part of this monitoring, the ACCC closely monitors petrol and diesel prices in all capital cities and around 110 country towns. In addition, the ACCC follows developments in the petroleum industry and will enforce the provisions of the Act if there is evidence that it has been breached.

Additionally, On 15 April 2008 the Government announced the establishment of a National FuelWatch Scheme to promote competition and transparency in the petrol, diesel and LPG markets. The scheme will commence on 15 December and the ACCC is working on the implementation of the scheme.

Thank you for contacting the ACCC and I hope this information is of assistance.

Yours sincerely,

ACCC Infocentre

1300 302 502

Logzy
23-05-2008, 03:12 PM
I didnt get a reply.
Must be my bad attitude.j:

I didnt just tell them that it was far ked, I said it was far ken far ked.j:

Greg Roles
23-05-2008, 04:27 PM
Dear Mr Logz,

Thankyou for your recent e-mail outlining your concerns about the spiraling cost of diesel fuel in Australia. Whilst we were a little taken back by your rather descriptive references to what the oil companies could go do to a goat, we did manage to read between the expletives and agree that the cost of diesel does seem to be rather overpriced compared to the average price of ULP. The AAAAAC is planning to write the oil companies a letter, and that letter will point out how very very angry we are with them in full team America style. I am sure this will sort things out once and for all, and please feel free to never contact us again you rude mother **** ing piece of *** **** sucker,

sincerely,

AAAAAC consumer pacification program.

Greg Roles
23-05-2008, 04:29 PM
I just received the following response via email.

So if the price difference is 11c per litre crude, at the same profit margin, Diesel should only be 11c ahead, or less with the lower refining cost

jdd
23-05-2008, 05:23 PM
So if the price difference is 11c per litre crude, at the same profit margin, Diesel should only be 11c ahead, or less with the lower refining cost
In theory, yes up until late April as they state, this correlates somewhat with what we've seen at the pump.
I get the impression that email response is a standard pre-written template they modify slightly to suite the individual cases in an attempt to make them look like they’re concerned and caring.
I notice they failed to address, or even comment on most of my questions.

gareth_oau
23-05-2008, 06:27 PM
some food for thought for you.

If you use a BP issued credit card (at BP service stations), they offer a 5% discount. at $1.70/L thats still $0.085/L in your pocket.

The small print on the BP credit card says theres no interest-free period on the card - so if you use it as a debit card instead, ie buy fuel, and then immediately transfer funds to cover it, then you get the full 5% discount.

worth considering if yr buying a lot of expensive fuel

neil
24-05-2008, 08:31 AM
some food for thought for you.

If you use a BP issued credit card (at BP service stations), they offer a 5% discount. at $1.70/L thats still $0.085/L in your pocket.

The small print on the BP credit card says theres no interest-free period on the card - so if you use it as a debit card instead, ie buy fuel, and then immediately transfer funds to cover it, then you get the full 5% discount.

worth considering if yr buying a lot of expensive fuel

Re: BP card
For new customers its 10% for 3 months.
One of the catches is it costs $79.00 per year.

Did the email thing with ACCC and got a phone call back with excuses.

orsegtsport
24-05-2008, 09:49 AM
As the servo industry is deregulated, servo's can charge what they want. All the AAAC is going to do is have a diesel specific watchdog and monitoring site up by years end, listing specific businesses. Seems they are powerless to put pressure on anyone inflating fuel prices.



The West Australian newspaper claimed earlier this week that the disparity between diesel and ULP prices was largely due to price gouging, and that on average, the retail margin (the money the actual servo makes) on diesel is some 3 - 4 times greater than that on ULP.

Ah, so they are going give us another tax payer funded watchdog eh? Awesome. :rolleyes: Seems to me that their sole reason for existence is nothing more than a government PR stunt. I mean, have these 'watch dogs' achieved anything since their implementation (and that's not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely interested to know of examples)?

mr_walker
24-05-2008, 10:58 AM
In the news today:

Diesel takes the hit for fuel rises (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/diesel-takes-the-hit-for-fuel-rises/2008/05/23/1211183102972.html)

Logzy
24-05-2008, 11:33 AM
In the news today:

Diesel takes the hit for fuel rises (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/diesel-takes-the-hit-for-fuel-rises/2008/05/23/1211183102972.html)

Cant say i agree with some of the wankers comments in the article.
6 months ago there was only 5c/litre difference between ULP and Diesel so how can Mr Motormouth say they have both increased by 61%. Sure maybe over the last 4 years it averages that they have, now but the main increase on Diesel has been in the last 6 months.

F@#$wits.:mad::mad::mad:

Spoddy
24-05-2008, 09:16 PM
Cant say i agree with some of the wankers comments in the article.
6 months ago there was only 5c/litre difference between ULP and Diesel so how can Mr Motormouth say they have both increased by 61%. Sure maybe over the last 4 years it averages that they have, now but the main increase on Diesel has been in the last 6 months.

F@#$wits.:mad::mad::mad:

I agree. The focus on ULP and the fact that diesel is not yet big enough on the "family budget" watched by the politicians has given the oil companies another lever (and the fact that the govt has expanded the diesel fuel credits scheme for trucking fleets who get discounts from the oil companies as well).:mad:

mr_walker
25-05-2008, 08:59 AM
Spotted last night: 179.9

Damn ... when's this going to slow down?

neil
25-05-2008, 03:20 PM
On the Sunday program today Ross greenwood said " Oil will hit $200 a barrel
by Christmas and this will equate to $2.30 for petrol."
He also said "due to the last few weeks of the oil increasing the reserve bank
will have no option other than to increase official interest rates at there next meeting, This is due
to oil causing inflation to rise. He said when oil reaches $200 Australia will be in a recession."
His comments where based on an American annalist predictions who predicted
oil would reach $100 a barrel a few months back.

mr_walker
25-05-2008, 03:31 PM
On the Sunday program today Ross greenwood said

Sounds suspiciously similar to this report from a month ago:

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23621278-462,00.html

JustCruisn
25-05-2008, 05:40 PM
Ah, so they are going give us another tax payer funded watchdog eh? Awesome. :rolleyes: Seems to me that their sole reason for existence is nothing more than a government PR stunt....

Exactly. How about we cut the crap and spend the money on just reducing he fuel tax a bit. That would actually see prices fall a bit. I would make a bigger difference then all the ACCC hot air.

Spoddy
25-05-2008, 08:58 PM
Exactly. How about we cut the crap and spend the money on just reducing he fuel tax a bit. That would actually see prices fall a bit. I would make a bigger difference then all the ACCC hot air.

If the govt cuts the tax it just gives the oil companies more profit as they then just creep up the prices again....

dammfool
25-05-2008, 09:12 PM
saw 182.9 tonight in sydney

95vr6
25-05-2008, 09:22 PM
173.9 at Fairfield BP

Golf Houso
25-05-2008, 09:59 PM
179.9 at Fairfield Shell :(

That BP is always heaps cheaper, I usually get 98 from there, despite me being 30m's down the road from the shell :(

OilBurna
26-05-2008, 07:13 AM
don't forget that india and china and a few other asian nations actually subsidise prices, this is causing the demand, plus speculators. Today they are saying they expect the bubble to burst soon and the oil should be priced around $80/90 per barrel. Plus no truth to the rumour that there are lots of supertankers in the Persian gulf chock full of oil..

mollins
26-05-2008, 05:15 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/26/2255955.htm

gareth_oau
26-05-2008, 05:28 PM
The West Australian newspaper claimed earlier this week ...

Orsegtsport, you dont actually believe what you read in The West? - The only part I take seriously is Calvin and Hobbesj:

orsegtsport
26-05-2008, 08:45 PM
Orsegtsport, you dont actually believe what you read in The West? - The only part I take seriously is Calvin and Hobbesj:

Nah, reading it normally just makes me angry with it's glaringly obvious right-wing bias in most of the opinion pieces. I only buy it on Monday and Thursday for the Super Rugby section.... Although they are giving away a shiny new GTI this week. Hmmm....... I might have to buy every issue this week and enter the draw :)

STV4SYT
27-05-2008, 01:55 PM
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23763042-2,00.html

Excellent the Truckies are now involved.



TRUCK drivers have joined the protest against Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's petrol policy as he also deals with dissent from within the Labor Party.

Dozens of truckies have sounded their horns outside Mr Rudd's office in protest over rising petrol prices.

Transport owner-operators have driven through Brisbane's city centre today to raise awareness of the impacts of the rising cost of petrol.

When they reached Waterfront Place - which houses the office of Mr Rudd and other cabinet ministers - they honked their horns.

Meanwhile, Resources Minister Martin Ferguson has said he strongly supports the Rudd Government's planned national FuelWatch scheme despite opposing it in Cabinet as an anti-competitive waste of money.

thefullback
27-05-2008, 04:24 PM
please note i am not defending oil companies :mad: but here are some interesting facts
Shell Clyde refinery has been in a maintenance shutdown since early Jan (i am working on the shutdown). In this time they have not produced a drop, I am told they usually supply 40% of NSW requirements. All their fuel is currently imported finished product from Asia. They are spending 300 million + on plant up grades etc. Also found out LSD plant will be built in November for operation by Jan 09.
Currently best diesel they can produce is 50 ppm.
None of this seems to get reported and may account for current high price of diesel.:???:
In my view the cost to produce a barrel of oil has changed little, so maybe we should be after the speculators and/or the system that allows these price rises to occur.:n:

Logzy
27-05-2008, 04:58 PM
please note i am not defending oil companies :mad: but here are some interesting facts
Shell Clyde refinery has been in a maintenance shutdown since early Jan (i am working on the shutdown). In this time they have not produced a drop, I am told they usually supply 40% of NSW requirements. All their fuel is currently imported finished product from Asia. They are spending 300 million + on plant up grades etc. Also found out LSD plant will be built in November for operation by Jan 09.
Currently best diesel they can produce is 50 ppm.
None of this seems to get reported and may account for current high price of diesel.:???:
In my view the cost to produce a barrel of oil has changed little, so maybe we should be after the speculators and/or the system that allows these price rises to occur.:n:

Ok, So lets say thats shells excuse for high prices.
What about BP and Mobil.???

Also shell are not doing the upgrade for ULSD 10ppm out of the goodness of their hearts or anything. Its because of new legislation coming in regarding sulphur content.
Really whats $300million to shell anyway. What were their profits last year.?
Proportionally i probably spend more of my income modding my car.:D

cetane
27-05-2008, 06:14 PM
so maybe we should be after the speculators and/or the system that allows these price rises to occur.:n:
Ahhh.... Now we get to the nub of it!

OvaltoJetta
27-05-2008, 06:30 PM
An interseting letter to the editor on the weekend suggested that:

"If we as a society, suddenly stopped buying brand X indefinately, then brand X executives would have to reconsider their prices because no one was purchasing any fuel from them. Then, until such time they reduced their prices, they would slowly go broke. Once brand X reduced it's prices to attract customers back we would all then use brand X therefore forcing brands Y and Z to also reduce their prices to be competative".

Who knows. It would take some co-ordinating and promoting on a national basis. Any volunteers?

$185.9 for diesel at my local BP in Perth today & tomorrow

thefullback
27-05-2008, 07:34 PM
this may be the answer
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php
check the vids
plenty of cheap coal and aging power stations around:D

OilBurna
28-05-2008, 07:17 AM
interesting article here.......

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/32429FC13C8BB9D9CA257455001A7C0E

cetane
28-05-2008, 07:18 AM
"If we as a society, suddenly stopped buying brand X indefinately........ Who knows. It would take some co-ordinating and promoting on a national basis. Any volunteers?

$185.9 for diesel at my local BP in Perth today & tomorrow

If it were washing powder or cooking oil or a brand of clothing that the correspondent was writing about, Jan, then sure....It would work. Unfortunately we're dealing with a global commodity priced at a global level and a manufacturer/wholesaler/retailer relationship that although they deny it is in cahoots. I think that the only positive spin-off of this sad affair of rising fuel costs is that it may make people think twice about hopping in the car, jumping on the tractor or firing up the truck for unnecessary trips. I know that it's done that for me, so now (living 25km form the nearest shop) I plan my visits to town rather that just heading off in the car for a minor purchase. I kill my tractor engine rather than leaving it idling for long periods and I walk rather than use the ATV. If fuel prices go up by 30% then we must learn to economise on our vehicle use by a corresponding 30% to maintain the status quo. Now that would really hurt the oil companies...Wouldn't it?? (Not to mention our oil reserves would last a little longer.) The days of cheap oil are over...Get used to it!

velly_16v_cab
28-05-2008, 08:25 AM
not sure if you have seen what is happening in the uk....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7420792.stm



a good graph at the bottom of the page, fuel is still cheaper here now than it was in the uk 9 years ago!!!

cetane
28-05-2008, 09:52 AM
India and China subsidise their fuel (same as Indonesia did until this week....Are they still doing it but to a lesser extent:???:)

It's interesting to read what's happening in other countries. For a long time the oil-price-rise-doubters (don't worry.. it's only temporary and it'll go down again...) and the "Peak Oil? Nonsense!" factions have said, "No matter what, people won't change their driving habits". But after reading this I wonder.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7421778.stm

Spoddy
30-05-2008, 09:33 PM
Tried the cheap diesel just to see what would happen - tank pretty empty (light on) so put in $10.00 (man that wasn't much anyway!) and whilst it seemed to run OK man did it blow smoke - not black stuff but that magical white stuff I had problems with when I first got the car... :rolleyes: but hey I had to check ;)

As soon as I found another BP filled it to the brim and no more smoke:D and it smells nicer too.

STV4SYT
31-05-2008, 01:13 PM
$82 for 47 litres last night. :(

mr.damage
01-06-2008, 10:34 AM
$82 for 47 litres last night. :(

No good. I payed $1.35/l for my bio100 on friday. Glad my polo was one of the first to land here . It dose not have the no bio sticker on it or the section in the manual about not using it. It still has a section about it being ok. It realy p*&sed the guys off at the local dealer when i took it in for service and they noticed it had bio in it when they changed the fuel filter.
The head of the service department came to tell me i had voided my warranty.
I asked him why and all he could come up with was that it said I wasnt to use it on the sticker and in the manual, so I asked him to point out the section in the manual and the sticker. (burned). I then asked him after he picked his jaw up off the workshop floor for any valid reason why i cant use it. The only reason he could come up with is that the aus polo has no fuel heater.
This is no real problem if you use quality bio with a low tallow content and take a few simple precautions. In winter i keep a small jar of bio in the shed next to the car and on very cold mornings check it to see if it has gone cloudy it only did it one day last winter and it was -3 that morning . all i had to do was give the glow plugs 2 cycles and it started all be it a bit harder than normal then let it idle for a few mins b4 taking off.
If I know we are in for a cold burst of nights near 1 deg i put $5 of normal diesel in per tank of bio and have no starting problems at all.

gldgti
01-06-2008, 09:50 PM
hey mate -

welcome! good to hear someone else using the bio - tell me, where abouts do you get yours? at $1.35/l thats a lot cheaper than i'm paying for mine (10c/l cheaper than regular diesel here in gosford, which is now about $1.85.


on the fuel price side, to the hatred of everyone, i know, i will say this: its about bloody time. we've been paying too little for fuel (and energy), for a very, very long time. now, we get the reality check. bring on the efficiency revolution i say.

- and yes, i pay my own bills.

mr.damage
02-06-2008, 07:46 AM
welcome! good to hear someone else using the bio - tell me, where abouts do you get yours? at $1.35/l thats a lot cheaper than i'm paying for mine (10c/l cheaper than regular diesel here in gosford, which is now about $1.85.

Hi gldgti,
My bio supplier is a bit out of the way for you. But if you are ever down in Melbourne stop in at Fina fuels in Thomastown . Just remember he is only open 9-5 mon-fri . They make the fuel there on site and the guys are always helpful and willing to answer any questions you might have. The place is a bit tricky to find .
Sorry if this sounds a bit like an ad but they have been great and I will tell anyone who is interested about them and @ 1.35/l why not.:)

origin
02-06-2008, 01:47 PM
Hi Spoddy,

Still going without white smoke after 2 weeks of cheap diesel.....:D

$10 is a lot for diesel...:???: ....It save me $18 from empty tank....

I filled it up again on sunday after 2 weeks off test without problem on the same servo $151.9 for $16....going ...going.....:o


BIO-100 <--- cost our food supply high.....:rolleyes:

Spoddy
05-06-2008, 11:03 PM
Hi ya Origin,

I noticed today was the first time they aren't selling the diesel at 151.9.

I don't get to go to botany very often - like once in a blue moon - I live in the Blue mountains and doing the sums after tolls and the distance I only come out square.... so I'll stay round instead:D

MultiplexMan
06-06-2008, 06:12 AM
on the fuel price side, to the hatred of everyone, i know, i will say this: its about bloody time. we've been paying too little for fuel (and energy), for a very, very long time. now, we get the reality check. bring on the efficiency revolution i say.

- and yes, i pay my own bills.

Got to agree with you there. It had to happen eventually and its happening in our lifetime. The big crunch will not be us filling our tanks (though that hurts) but the knock on effects with bulk transport and the cost of living.

It will be interesting to see if the "inefficient" vehicles disappear off our roads. I doubt it. :(

If they do, and people start to plan their trips, car pool, use public transport, walk to the train station...etc, (I know not all of us have the option) perhaps local demand will decline? After all we live in a market driven economy - supply/demand rule still applies.

I just plan my trips more carefully and factor fuel cost into every trip now. No different when using the telephone: mobile or land line or waiting if you can email (cheapest). ;)

Did I mention I'm tight? :rolleyes:

PS Still love my Kombi Beach TDI. :)

STV4SYT
06-06-2008, 09:23 AM
Im pretty disgusted with the current company car tax rules, where it actually lowers your tax bill the more km you do.

U basically get rewarded for polluting the environment.

I used to work at a company where people who were short of km's on their company vehicle would do things like drive to Brisbane instead of flying just to lower their liability. And all to often i heard the phrase "I don't give a f**k i don't pay fuel anyway"

things like this should be reconsidered and go to a model like in the uk where it is based on the co2 emissions of your car and km is unrelated.

Holden and Ford would be up in arms though for any changes like that.

tezza
06-06-2008, 09:40 AM
Guys can someone please explain to me why when the Tapas price goes up the prices at the pump go up almost immediately, yet when the price comes down it can takes weeks to be reflected at the pump :?

Greg Roles
06-06-2008, 12:41 PM
Profit. It's always about the money.

cetane
07-06-2008, 07:04 AM
Guys can someone please explain to me why when the Tapas price goes up the prices at the pump go up almost immediately, yet when the price comes down it can takes weeks to be reflected at the pump :?

This happens because consumers have not "teeth" to prevent it. It's the same with rises/falls in interest rates. The RBA announces a rise in the cash rate and a few days later you're paying for it. When they announce a fall, it's weeks before you feel any benefit. I'm not entirely sure of why the Tapis price is always substantially higher than the New York spot price, but it's probably something to do with local supply and demand. Anybody know :???:

gldgti
07-06-2008, 09:28 AM
BIO-100 <--- cost our food supply high.....:rolleyes:

all the biodiesel made in australia is made from waste veggie oil, not purpose grown crops.

its a different story for ethanol though.... despite the enormous potential for waste derived ethanol, almost all of the ethanol used in fuel here is derived directly from sugar cain.

all of our landfills and organic waste disposal depots should be used for collection of methane (natural gas) and reprocessing organic solids into ethanol. there are a few plants being built that do this - i think theres a waste grain into ethanol plant being built near Warren, NSW.

to make biodiesel, they even use old sump oil.... so i cant see how making biodiesel could create a social or environmental problem here, since all of it is made from an already waste product.

silvershadow
07-06-2008, 11:03 AM
This is no real problem if you use quality bio with a low tallow content and take a few simple precautions. In winter i keep a small jar of bio in the shed next to the car and on very cold mornings check it to see if it has gone cloudy it only did it one day last winter and it was -3 that morning . all i had to do was give the glow plugs 2 cycles and it started all be it a bit harder than normal then let it idle for a few mins b4 taking off.
If I know we are in for a cold burst of nights near 1 deg i put $5 of normal diesel in per tank of bio and have no starting problems at all.

In my past employment, I had experience with diesel-powered mining and construction equipment which was hired to customers. I can always remember a large portable diesel air compressor which was shipped to the Snowy Mountains in the middle of winter with a tank full of non-alpine blend diesel. The operator checked the fuel before the first start of the engine in the morning and seeing the fuel was clear with no trace of wax, turned the glow plugs on for a few minutes then hit the starter - a few stutters then nothing. The operator then proceeded to flatten the battery trying to start the engine. When our service technician stripped the fuel injection system, there was liquid fuel on the intake side of the injection pump and a solid gel in the high pressure discharge lines - these had to be removed and heated with a gas torch to melt the gel as the daytime temperature was not sufficient. The heating could not be done "in situ" as other components would be damaged by the torch.

The problem was caused by the cold fuel "gelling" when it was pressurised. This is the reason why diesel vehicles sold in cold climates are supplied with fuel heaters as standard notwithstanding the fact "alpine blend" diesel is standard supply from retail outlets.

You have been lucky with your experience so far.

SS

mr_walker
07-06-2008, 01:22 PM
Nonsense! Much of the biodiesel made in Aus is made from slaughterhouse waste - fats and oils from dead cows, pigs, sheep etc.

You can have dead cow on your seats, *and* in your tank! :D

Passatwind
07-06-2008, 02:58 PM
Im pretty disgusted with the current company car tax rules, where it actually lowers your tax bill the more km you do.

U basically get rewarded for polluting the environment.

I used to work at a company where people who were short of km's on their company vehicle would do things like drive to Brisbane instead of flying just to lower their liability. And all to often i heard the phrase "I don't give a f**k i don't pay fuel anyway"

things like this should be reconsidered and go to a model like in the uk where it is based on the co2 emissions of your car and km is unrelated.

Holden and Ford would be up in arms though for any changes like that.

I'm with you on that one. I am surprised the FBT laws on company cars have lasted this long. Last year I pushed to do 25,000 km. Funny thing is I worked out that if I only do 15,000 km in a year, the additional tax liability is roughly offset by the reduction in running costs! So basically these people that bust a gut doing many excess kms are living in a fool's paradise.

gldgti
07-06-2008, 04:08 PM
Nonsense! Much of the biodiesel made in Aus is made from slaughterhouse waste - fats and oils from dead cows, pigs, sheep etc.

ahh yes, that too..... i should've just said waste oil, not waste veggie oil.... sorry :-)

neil
07-06-2008, 05:22 PM
No good. I payed $1.35/l for my bio100 on friday. Glad my polo was one of the first to land here . It dose not have the no bio sticker on it or the section in the manual about not using it. It still has a section about it being ok. It realy p*&sed the guys off at the local dealer when i took it in for service and they noticed it had bio in it when they changed the fuel filter.
The head of the service department came to tell me i had voided my warranty.
I asked him why and all he could come up with was that it said I wasnt to use it on the sticker and in the manual, so I asked him to point out the section in the manual and the sticker. (burned). I then asked him after he picked his jaw up off the workshop floor for any valid reason why i cant use it. The only reason he could come up with is that the aus polo has no fuel heater.
This is no real problem if you use quality bio with a low tallow content and take a few simple precautions. In winter i keep a small jar of bio in the shed next to the car and on very cold mornings check it to see if it has gone cloudy it only did it one day last winter and it was -3 that morning . all i had to do was give the glow plugs 2 cycles and it started all be it a bit harder than normal then let it idle for a few mins b4 taking off.
If I know we are in for a cold burst of nights near 1 deg i put $5 of normal diesel in per tank of bio and have no starting problems at all.

Regarding fuel heater: Ryco make one, does not look much different to
the standard filter/water trap type.

About to do a blend of 25% WVO and dino diesel in my old ute and plan
to add the fuel heater.
neil.

mr.damage
09-06-2008, 09:10 AM
Regarding fuel heater: Ryco make one, does not look much different to
the standard filter/water trap type.

About to do a blend of 25% WVO and dino diesel in my old ute and plan
to add the fuel heater.
neil.

Cool let us know how you go Neil.
Plus could you let us know where you found it and how much.

Subaru Gal
13-06-2008, 06:51 AM
An interseting letter to the editor on the weekend suggested that:

"If we as a society, suddenly stopped buying brand X indefinately, then brand X executives would have to reconsider their prices because no one was purchasing any fuel from them. Then, until such time they reduced their prices, they would slowly go broke. Once brand X reduced it's prices to attract customers back we would all then use brand X therefore forcing brands Y and Z to also reduce their prices to be competative".

Who knows. It would take some co-ordinating and promoting on a national basis. Any volunteers?


Hi There Travellers, :)
Hope I have done this right, sorry if I have not, I am new to your forum.

This boycotting of BP Australia is already happening, boycotting BP NZ too.

Apparently, BP is the biggest up driver company. The talk is of course that if we boycott BP for long enough, they will be forced to lower their prices, in the attempt to get customers back. By lowering their prices, other gas stations will follow suit to stay in business. :D

I would like to add, that we do not wish to hurt independanty owned BP's. Therefor there is no need to boycott some BP's.

Generally BP owned sites are called 'Connect', or 'Express', independents are called BP-2Go or BP-Shop. Have a look at the glaringly obvious signage on the building or the towers outside the station. They will tell you.

I for one stopped buying from BP a few weeks ago, as did my husband who spends over $500 a month on fuel just to get to & from work.
Blue Mt to Wetherill Park.

Can it really work? Who knows, guess we will never know until we try. Trying sure beats sitting around just b*tching about it all.

Anyway, I still believe it is worth a try, i'm happy to boycott BP Aus for as long as it takes, unless someone can prove to me it will make no difference.
:?

Have a great day travellers!

Logzy
13-06-2008, 07:16 AM
Hi There Travellers, :)
Hope I have done this right, sorry if I have not, I am new to your forum.

This boycotting of BP Australia is already happening, boycotting BP NZ too.

Apparently, BP is the biggest up driver company. The talk is of course that if we boycott BP for long enough, they will be forced to lower their prices, in the attempt to get customers back. By lowering their prices, other gas stations will follow suit to stay in business. :D

I would like to add, that we do not wish to hurt independanty owned BP's. Therefor there is no need to boycott some BP's.

Generally BP owned sites are called 'Connect', or 'Express', independents are called BP-2Go or BP-Shop. Have a look at the glaringly obvious signage on the building or the towers outside the station. They will tell you.

I for one stopped buying from BP a few weeks ago, as did my husband who spends over $500 a month on fuel just to get to & from work.
Blue Mt to Wetherill Park.

Can it really work? Who knows, guess we will never know until we try. Trying sure beats sitting around just b*tching about it all.

Anyway, I still believe it is worth a try, i'm happy to boycott BP Aus for as long as it takes, unless someone can prove to me it will make no difference.
:?

Have a great day travellers!

Sorry but as good as it sounds:rolleyes: I wont be boycotting BP as they are the only ones that have the 10ppm Diesel.
Good luck in your quest though, maybe in 10 years you will be able to buy BP fuel again if all goes to plan.:confused:

cetane
13-06-2008, 07:23 AM
G'day and welcome to our forum, Subi Gal!

I reckon that there'll be a few diesel drivers who won't move away from BP Ultimate because of the perceived quality benefit. (I'm not one of them ;)

Going elsewhere to buy your fuel is fine as long as everybody does it and it would mean a LOT of people would have to do it before BP would feel an impact on their profits. I agree wholeheartedly with you when it comes to supporting the independents. Poor b*s*rds are being squeezed out by corporate predators and the duopoly of the big two supermarkets are the worst.

IMHO the only way to reduce the price disparity between diesel and unleaded is to increase refining capacity. If the demand for diesel is rising as fast as it is, then the oil companies must produce more of it. It doesn't really matter either way to them as the profit would be the same, it's the speculators that are cashing in on demand being greater than supply.

Trouble is that the oil companies are reluctant to spend on refining infrastructure as they know that oil supply has peaked..... so why invest money in processing plant for something that's going to run out before the life expectancy of the hardware?

STV4SYT
13-06-2008, 09:53 AM
It must be working, there was a Queue at the BP i drove past this morning.

Greg Roles
13-06-2008, 05:13 PM
Hey c'mon you big meanies, it's a GREAT post if you read it....

I will be bypassing the BP OWNED sites, and finding the BP independants.....

THANKS for the tip Subie Gal. :D

Passatwind
13-06-2008, 08:30 PM
C'mon, it is BS. BP is no worse than any of the other majors. Maybe it is a Shell plot. There are bigger things at stake, like the future of the planet.

neil
13-06-2008, 08:54 PM
C'mon, it is BS. BP is no worse than any of the other majors. Maybe it is a Shell plot. There are bigger things at stake, like the future of the planet.

Yeah I thought it might be the opposition starting the campain.
I use only BP and he is an independent, and always 5 cents cheaper,
problem is the servo has just been demolished for a new one.
Does anyone know if the Normanhurst BP is still going to be Independent or
will it be taken over by BP as there seems to be heaps being spent on the new servo.

neil
13-06-2008, 08:59 PM
Cool let us know how you go Neil.
Plus could you let us know where you found it and how much.

My apologizes Mr Damage.
I meant racor and not ryco filters.
Shop around big price differences in the racor product.
See link re racor:
http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.7100150cebe5bbc2d6806710237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=f5c9b5bbec622110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCR D&vgnextfmt=default&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextcatid=2724805&vgnextcat=300RC%20SERIES%20FUEL%20FILTER/HEATER/WATER%20SEPARATOR