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McCosker
11-05-2008, 11:49 PM
Hey, i've got my 1st track day comming up and i was wondering if anyone has some tips on where to secure the fire extinguisher. i dont really want to be drilling holes that are really obvious when the extinguisher isnt there.:?

Surely someone has had to do this before.

quozl
12-05-2008, 01:49 AM
Both of mine are in front of each seat so in reach of the driver and co driver when they are harnessed in their seats as per the CAMS regulations.

Wherever you decide to put them make sure they are secure (IE not just cable tied in) as the last thing you want is a 5KG metal missle flying around the cockpit if you have a big off. Pictures below and more general pictures of them in the interior can be seen in my gallery here (http://images2.rdefined.com/v/AlWalker/)

Cheers Al

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/05/ExtinguisherPics001-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/05/ExtinguisherPics002-1.jpg

McCosker
12-05-2008, 10:33 AM
OK this looks reasonable. So did you just drill through the floor and put bolts through?
Im not that keen on drilling holes throught the floor, but if thats the only way i will just have to man up and start drilling.

Flaps
12-05-2008, 12:02 PM
Both of mine are in front of each seat so in reach of the driver and co driver when they are harnessed in their seats as per the CAMS regulations.

Al, How can you reach the floor when harnessed in?

DUB 20V
12-05-2008, 12:10 PM
put in in the cup holder there is room for 2 of them lol :D:D:D

Bluerex
13-05-2008, 08:48 AM
Al, How can you reach the floor when harnessed in?
I think if you needed the extinguisher, you might have undone your harnesses first:D

C

Peter Jones
13-05-2008, 08:21 PM
Read the manual!:)

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/general/0609_Schedule_H_Q208.pdf

3. SPEED EVENTS, RACES AND DRIFTING
Each automobile of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Categories in a speed event or race must be equipped with a fire
extinguisher which complies with the following conditions and is properly fitted at a suitable location:
(i) it must comply with Australian Standard 1841 (save that extinguishers which meet AS1841.2 are not permitted).
Note that Halon extinguishers (1201 or 1311, including BCF) are not permitted under civil legislation;
(ii) it must be of at least 900g capacity;
(iii) it must remain restrained under an acceleration of 25G;
(iv) it must be capable of removal by the driver without the aid of tools.
The fitment of an “on-board” extinguishing system homologated by the FIA shall be acceptable as an alternative
to the fitment of a separate extinguisher.

Pete

McCosker
13-05-2008, 09:31 PM
I have been through the manual and it tells me what i should have, but not how to put it/where to put it in the car.
It looks like i may just have to screw it to the floor somewhere. I was just hoping that someone else had done this to their streetcar already and could give me some tips. Thanks Quozl for the pics, i think i will try the same.

Peter Jones
13-05-2008, 09:48 PM
Passenger side footwell.

Captive end of bracket forwards.

Mounted through floor with grade 8.8 M6 bolts and mudguard washers either side of bracket and floorpan.

Loctite on bolts.

Gauge against tunnel to prevent passenger from damaging it .

Passed CAMS Scrutineering @ Phillip Island April 2008

Australian Standards approved extinguisher purchased from Autobarn
Packaging also indicates CAMS approval.

Scrutineers will check fixing, condition, clamps, pressure, safetys and dates.



http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/04/P1290394-1.jpg

evorobin
13-05-2008, 10:06 PM
Read the manual!:)

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/general/0609_Schedule_H_Q208.pdf

3. SPEED EVENTS, RACES AND DRIFTING
Each automobile of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Categories in a speed event or race must be equipped with a fire
extinguisher which complies with the following conditions and is properly fitted at a suitable location:
(i) it must comply with Australian Standard 1841 (save that extinguishers which meet AS1841.2 are not permitted).
Note that Halon extinguishers (1201 or 1311, including BCF) are not permitted under civil legislation;
(ii) it must be of at least 900g capacity;
(iii) it must remain restrained under an acceleration of 25G;
(iv) it must be capable of removal by the driver without the aid of tools.
The fitment of an “on-board” extinguishing system homologated by the FIA shall be acceptable as an alternative
to the fitment of a separate extinguisher.

Pete

No mention of a date stamp. Most scrutineers will want a stamp no?

Peter Jones
14-05-2008, 06:40 AM
No mention of a date stamp. Most scrutineers will want a stamp no?

Yep,I think that must be covered by the Australian Standard rather than the CAMS Manual.

Pete

The_Hawk
14-05-2008, 07:28 AM
Have you ever seen a fire extinguisher being tested?
Basically they wipe the dust off, pick it up and ensure if "feels right" then check the gauge is still in the green.... oh and they stamp the plate. Such a high tech testing procedure.

DaveMack
14-05-2008, 07:31 AM
Have you ever seen a fire extinguisher being tested?
Basically they wipe the dust off, pick it up and ensure if "feels right" then check the gauge is still in the green.... oh and they stamp the plate. Such a high tech testing procedure.

Hmmm ... not the way it was done when I worked ar Wormald's, Aaron. But that was at least 20 yrs ago. :D

Dave

Bluerex
14-05-2008, 08:03 AM
I have had the different testing processes explained to me in the past, but to avoid confusion I have posted the question on the BMSC forums (http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/rallying-technical/16584-fire-extinguishers.html#post169617). Hopefully there will be some clarification forthcoming :D

Charles

The_Hawk
14-05-2008, 08:09 AM
Hmmm ... not the way it was done when I worked ar Wormald's, Aaron. But that was at least 20 yrs ago. :D

Dave

Maybe the guys that used to test my offices were just slack :rolleyes: j:
What was the way back then Dave?


Will be interesting to see the official answer.

DaveMack
14-05-2008, 08:13 AM
Maybe the guys that used to test my offices were just slack :rolleyes: j:
What was the way back then Dave?


Will be interesting to see the official answer.

Reaching back thru the cobwebs of memory then, Aaron ... weight was the big factor and a sound record keeping regime. If the date was longer than required (think it was 12 months back then) then the gas cartridge was swapped out for a new one and if the weight was below minimum requirement, the unit required a full recharge.

But accuracy of ancient memories could be faulty. :D

Dave

evorobin
14-05-2008, 09:22 AM
They hit it with a rubber mallet and if it doesn't go off they stamp it. I had a guy do a few of my extinguishers. As it was went to mallala they didn't even scrutineer the car :rolleyes:

JustCruisn
14-05-2008, 01:06 PM
I've screwed mine to the front of the seat.
It sits under the driver's knees, never really gets in the way. I didn't want it on the floor as it might get covered by the seat when moved forward etc.
There is already a screw in the front section, so I just had to add 1 new hole.

I dunno if it will withstand 25 G-forces though.

zedub
14-05-2008, 02:04 PM
I've screwed mine to the front of the seat.
It sits under the driver's knees, never really gets in the way. I didn't want it on the floor as it might get covered by the seat when moved forward etc.
There is already a screw in the front section, so I just had to add 1 new hole.

I dunno if it will withstand 25 G-forces though.

any chance of posting a pic? ta

Bluerex
15-05-2008, 06:33 AM
For those interested, this is the word from our top firey/scruit......


the extinguishers must be manufactured in accordance to AS 1841 and maintained under AS 1851.

Basically every 5 (level 4 check) years the extinguisher needs to be Hydrostaticly tested from the date of manufacture. The other checks required are a level 1 or 2, which under the standard must be done every 6 months. Shedule H contradicts the standard, so when I discovered this I spoke to technical services who agreed that it was wrong and was happy for us in Canberrs to enforce the 5 year test. Scruiteneers should be able to do the level 1 and 2 check, but should be trained appropriately.

With regard to scruiteneering, I had a chat to the Chief at ROC and he agreed that we should only really be concentrating on the 5 year pressure test and visual inspection of guage etc.

Fire bombs are in a whole other class dont go there.

Cheers


Tim

JustCruisn
16-05-2008, 09:08 AM
any chance of posting a pic? ta

Sure

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/justcruisn/P1020763.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/justcruisn/P1020765.jpg

McCosker
16-05-2008, 10:00 AM
Bloting it to the seat is an interesting concept, i wouldnt have thought of it.
did you put a small plate on the other side of the plastic to make things a bit stronger?
I will now have to look at mounting it to the seat, otherwise i will tec screw it to the floor.

Thanks for the pics

JustCruisn
16-05-2008, 12:25 PM
I used one original hole, but used a longer screw. And I used a clip from aftermarket speaker for the 2nd screw to tap into.

zedub
16-05-2008, 01:25 PM
good idea, don't think it'll work with my seats tho.. oh well..

thanks for the pic tho

Bluerex
16-05-2008, 08:11 PM
Guys, I really I mean REALLY would not present an extinguisher in a plastic bracket for scruitineering. Metal bracket CAMS friendly extinguishers are available from Bunnings for $30.

C

JustCruisn
16-05-2008, 09:01 PM
Did McCosker really want a CAMS approved install ?
I know the thread went into all sorts of detail about CAMS regulations and crap about how to test an extinguisher but at the end of the day for a cheap basic install for a daily driver / occasional track car this does it really matter ?
Plastic mount setup cost less than $20

McCosker
16-05-2008, 09:50 PM
Yeah, it is just for a ocassional track car, for now. i still want to buy the right gear once, so i do have one with a metal bracket.
Thanks for all the assistance eveyone.
Now i have eveything sorted, all thats left is to get to the track on sunday.:)