What cam is this? Suggestions for replacement?

[Peter Jones]

The heads off white due to blowing a head gasket at Phillip Island. I thought I'd investigate cams while it's all apart. Can anyone identify this cam for me?

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/04/P1290532-2.jpg

Here's what I know

It's hydraulic. Two of the lifters seem stuck which I'd already guessed from the tappity noises when the car was cold, I'll replace the lot.

Engine is MK 2 1800 K-Jet engine no GX 095 597

I'd like to know if this is the standard cam and hear your suggestions on replacements based on continuing to run the K-Jet with extractors and 2.5" exhaust. Porting and valves might be done too.

Pete

[Golf Loon]

I dont think its a G Grind, they should have a G on it.

Probably standard cabrio cam.

Put either a G Grind, I have if you need, or pm demoIII as he has a tasty can for sale.

[Peter Jones]

I dont think its a G Grind, they should have a G on it.

Probably standard cabrio cam.

Put either a G Grind, I have if you need, or pm demoIII as he has a tasty can for sale.

I'll be in touch :)

I thought you'd know.

Pete

[Jarred]

Depends if you want driveability as much?

I know some Autotech cams can be had for about 120USD, these specs vary (of course) but something like a 270 sport, will be a nice strong cam, lumpier than a G grind, and work from about 3kRPM up to 7k+RPM. The bigger cams *may* require HD valve springs though. Should net about 10 Horse on a standard engine, so with some P&P + extractors and exhaust maybe higer comp ratio, you could be looking at comfortably 20 Horse I reckon.


Anyways. That's just my opinion. Tim (Golfworx) knows his cam's. PM him if he doesn't chime in here, I'd take his word over mine any day! :)

[Peter Jones]

A couple of more questions,

How big are the valves in the "Big Valve" 8v head?

What is the spec of the G Grind cam? 268 degrees?

Any links or websites I should read?

I'll drop the head off this week and see what the go is.

Pete

[deemoE36]

I dont think its a G Grind, they should have a G on it.

Probably standard cabrio cam.

Put either a G Grind, I have if you need, or pm demoIII as he has a tasty can for sale.

yeh thanks matt

i got a 270 deg cam, quiet lumpy and it really does give so much more from above 3K rpm all the way through to 7k rpm! i was surprised that it got there cus with my stock one, for what ever reason i couldnt even reach 6K rpm

[Oneofthegreats]

With head work & oversize valve's etc., it comes down to how much you want to spend.
Here's a mob in the states that port's a very nice 8V with some good flow number's. $800 US

http://scch-heads.com/viewhead2.php?id=17

Down side it's for a JH US spec 8V & that it really need's 10+:1 CR & a decent size cam to make full effect.

This place also does alot of nice mk1 part's to like a Spherical Shifter, Spehrical bearing ball joint Kit, Bump steer Elimination kit, Tubular Control Arms MKI & MKII etc.
Check out their part's section.

Also another place in the U.K. have have some very nice CNC head's with some even nicer result's.

http://www.cncheads.co.uk/vw_golf_8v.html
http://www.cncheads.co.uk/vw_golf_8v_bv.html

As far as I know the GX never came with a "G" grind cam as it was the low HP gti engine & as such came with a very low performance cam. It's also a hydraulic cam.

The RV (high output) engine had the hydraulic version G grind which wasn't as big as the solid version

The true G grind came in the DX solid cam GTI's like my 83 GTI & had a very nice lump to it & would start pulling strong after 3500rpm. Much more lumpier than a Autotech 270.

283° advertised
225° at 0.050"
0.423" lift

Just letting you know that your not alone with this engine code, my old beater engine, which I fitted to the GTI is a GX too!

GX engine cam - I don't have the advertised duration only these
duration @ 0.050" 210°/209°
Lift - .393"
Lobe center's - 110°

I fitted a Autotech 270 to my beater engine & made a nice difference. Also fitted Autotech's heavy duty valves spring's, Vernier Cam pulley & new OEM lifter's, which goes without saying.

Duration: 270° at 0.1mm check,
Lift: 0.449"
112° lobe center

Has alittle lump to the idle & has good manifold vacuum.

A word of warning though with big cam's & K-Jet. If it's too lumpy, the airflow reversion can upset the airflap causing very poor performance. I remember someone fitted a airflap off another vehicle (can't remember which one) which was thicker & heavier which eliminated the problem.

If I stick with the 8v hydraulic, I'd like to try a TT 276° with a Auto tran's & 3000rpm stall.

276° Advertised
234° @ 0.050"
.449" Lift
110° Lobe Center

Another note is that if you pick a cam with over .449" lift, you may have to clearance the lifter bore's. but if the head's apart, then this can be done quite easily.

As far as valve sizes go.
Inlet 38mm or 40mm?, 8mm stem
Exhaust 33mm, 8mm stem

You can go
I 41mm, 7mm stem
E 34mm, 7mm stem

I 42mm, 7mm stem
E 35mm, 7mm stem

If you choose not to fit oversize valve's, a cheap mod to do is to back cut the valves, which can improve flow.

Porting, well that's in the eye of the beholder.
I reckon a nice clean up of the down turn's, throat's & around the guide's, fitting 7mm stem valve's,opening the port's upto the gasket's, & also skimming the head to bring the CR up alittle should be benificial.

Hope this info help's you out Pete.

[Peter Jones]

Thanks for the info, it's options I'm after, your feedback is great.

I think the approach I will take is that I will build another motor next year with all the trimmings, so for this build I'll just go one step further than it's at currently.

If the Hydraulic G Grind or Autotech cam is known to work OK with the K-Jet, I might head down that path for now.

For the headwork I've had an initial chat with my head guy and we'll see what he can come up with. I'll pass on your suggestions.

At this stage I don't want to go down the radical modification path too far, what I'll try and establish is a setup that has been seen working in the past.

I'll save the major engineering work for the project motor later on.

That said, I'll up the valves if I can and port to match.

I'll get the head and manifold tanked and media blasted, those K-Jet manifolds look like a bugger to clean out otherwise.

Keep the suggestions coming! If I get the head setup right I can always play with different cams later on.

Interesting point on the GX vs RV motors. Do you have any detail on what the mechanical differences were?

Pete

[Oneofthegreats]

Thanks for the info, it's options I'm after, your feedback is great.

Interesting point on the GX vs RV motors. Do you have any detail on what the mechanical differences were?

Pete

No problem's Pete. Glad to help out.

The major difference's were compression & cam's as advertised.

GX 8.5:1 85HP,
RV 10.0:1 112HP

When I measured my GX corrected, it was as follow's

Deck height - 1.00mm
Head gasket height - 1.65mm
Piston Crown Volume - 17.69cc
Deck Height + Gasket Volume - 13.6609cc
Cyl. Head Volume - 30.00cc

Compression Ratio
Piston Crown Volume - 17.69cc
Deck Height + Gasket Volume - +13.6609cc
Cyl. Head Volume - +30.00cc
Total Combustion Chamber Volume = 61.3509
Swept Volume - 445.398
= 506.7489
Total Combustion Chamber Volume - +61.3509
= 8.2598:1 Compression Ratio.

My setup's been tried & tested, although it hasn't been on a dyno for quite sometime, but from ET & MPH with only the spare removed, I've been told it's on par with a US Spec G60.
Roughly 100WHP.

Mine's a GX with the compresion raised to 9.4246:1 Corrected & balanced with the clutch/flywheel assembly.
- Autotech 270 Cam
- Autotech Heavy Duty Valve Springs
- Autotech Vernier Pulley - retarded 1-2°
- Autotech Intermediate Pulley
- Stage 1 Ported intake manifold from this bloke http://www.scientificrabbit.com/
- Match Ported Audi Throttle body
- Volvo 240 2.2L Fuel Distributor & Airflow sensor flap assembly, swiss cheesed airbox, K&N air filter & rocker cover breather blocked off. Now routed into a filtered Powerade Bottle! Yeh Yeh, I know, but it works!
- Late Model stock GTI distributor without vac. advance. Big Difference. (Can't remember ignition timing spec, approx stock 3° ATDC)
- HD 210mm clutch kit
- Very old Hurricane 4-2-1 Extractors
- 2" exhaust system, hotdog (can't remember the length) & straight through offset rear muffler with 2.5" tailpipe
- 4 spd Stock Diesel gearbox with a ABD short shift kit & weighted shifter rod.

[Peter Jones]

Wow, you keep some pretty detailed records there.

I forgot I'd have to account for the head gasket volume, my engine building experience has mainly been with the aircooled stuff . :)

That's very useful stuff to know. I think I've still got enough gear to cc everything at home, if not I can soon make it up again.

Sound like the head's going to be a bit thinner by the time I'm done.

I always run the highest octane fuel I can get so the compression should be fine. Cooling has never been an issue with this motor. (Until the hose burst.)

Sounds like the budget solution would be to increase the CR, grab Matt's G Grind and back cut the valves.

Next option Autotech 270, bigger valves and springs, porting.

Beyond that and I may as well start building a 16v 2.0L.

Any thoughts on the ramp angle of the G grind lobes and the need for heavier springs? I had this motor reving clean off the tacho and into the fuel gauge (7500+ ?) with no sign of valve bounce with the stock cam.

Pete

[Oneofthegreats]

When it comes to building engine's, I like to keep detailed record's of what get's done & what goes into them.

The engine was rebuilt in 98, so it was a far while ago now. Has clocked up over 370+k with only a headgasket failure.

I wouldn't suggest skimming the head super thin to raise the CR, as this can cause mixture & ignition problem's.

I ended up fitting new piston's which had a smaller volume & higher deck height.

I should have posted this up before to save confusion
Here's all the dismantled & assemble spec's


GX Engine

Bore - 81mm
Stroke - 86.4mm
Swept Volume Per Cylinder – 445.398cc
Engine Capacity - 1781.582cc


As Dismantled/As Assembled

DeckDeck height -
1.00mm/0.60mm
Head gasket height -
1.65mm/1.65mm
Piston Crown Volume -
17.69cc/11.27cc
Deck Height + Gasket Volume -
13.6609cc/11.5989cc
Cyl. Head Volume -
30.00cc/ 30.00cc

Compression Ratio

Piston Crown Volume -
17.69cc/11.27cc
Deck Height + Gasket Volume -
+13.6609cc/+11.5989cc
Cyl. Head Volume -
+30.00cc/+30.00cc
Total Combustion Chamber Volume
=61.3509/=52.8689
Swept Volume -
445.398/445.398

=506.7489/=498.2669
Total Combustion Chamber Volume -
+61.3509/+52.8689

Compression Ratio
= 8.2598:1/9.4246:1

Cam Specs – Stock GX

In Opens 15°BTDC
In Closes 55°ABDC
Ex Opens 55°BBDC
Ex Closes 15°ATDC

Duration In + Ex 250°
Lift @ Lobe .360”

As you can see, a Autotech 270 is a much bigger cam.

If you just going to fit a Hydraulic G Grind, I wouldn't bother about HD valve spring's, just lifter's. But on the other hand, if the engine has had a hard time for most of it's life, new spring's wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Just out of interest sake, the Autotech 270 is $129.95US. They should post to OZ.

[Peter Jones]

Ok, that makes sense, thanks for taking the time to write it all up.

For now I don't really want to tear the whole motor down, so I don't think I'll be replacing pistons until I tackle the project motor.

If I do the pistons and rings I'd have to bore it and while I'm there I'd have to do the big ends, and if I did those I'd have to do the mains etc etc.

First rule of any project. Define scope.

I'm in the defining scope phase at the moment and trying to get a feel for what can be done beyond just sticking the head back on.

Hard to say what sort of life this motor has had. The previous owners were a couple of kids that neglected it. I don't think they could have driven it to hard because the fuel pump was stuffed when I got it and the throttle cable was so badly adjusted that the secondary wasn't pulling in. I think the owner before them must have fitted the 5 speed and K-Jet motor.

All the kids did to it was cut AND oxy the front springs:n:

I'll see what my head guy has to say. it might be possible to get that CR up by other means, he's pretty handy at designing and shaping combustion chambers. Just depends how generous he's feeling. I don't know if he's still got the pantograph, that thing always amused me. He had all the VW combustion chamber reference models to go with it once upon a time.

I'll go and check out autotech tonight, I've already spent too much time on the net at work today.:D

Pete

[Jarred]

Pete, If you are planning on doing a project engine, it might be wise not to use up all your favours with you head fella. He could come in very handy for some full on work on perhaps a 2L 16V, which I'm my opinion is probably worth it as a next step.

8V are good for street and general use, but you can get so much more power out of a 16V, it's almost not funny.

having said that, my scope on this project would (just briefly): get the head back on with a bit of work (stage 1 kinda stuff; "mild street" perhaps) and get some more laps under your belt. Learn how to drive/race first, then by the time you are really confident, and at the absolute limit with the 1.8 8V you'll be able to pop in a worked 16V and progress from there.

That's just what I'd do, just my 2 cents. It's not really worth sinking a whole lot of coin in an engine you are planning on replacing in the near future. :?

[Peter Jones]

There's plenty of favours left in that bucket, I needn't worry on that score.

I've spent many weekends down at the shop repairing or re-wiring his phones, internet, alarm, mills, lathes lights etc. I just finished the phone cabling in his new house after Christmas. Basically we never charge each other for labour, just out of pocket material expenses. I can go down there and use any of the machines myself if he's busy or I can do some of the grunt work for him while he works on my stuff. These days we don't get to catch up too often because I work in town now and it's hard to get to the shop when he's open. To get the head to him I'll have to pop around to his place one night this week because he's not opening up on Saturdays any more.

Agree with you on the conservative approach for the moment, there's bigger things to come.:D

Pete

[Peter Jones]

Good range of cams here.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/categories/176/8V_Hyd_Camshafts

Makes me want to build a crazy 8v.:)

Pete

[Oneofthegreats]

Just letting you know Pete.

From what I've read, BBM are more of just supplier/distributor. There own product's are sceptical & over priced IMHO!

Eg. The cam's spec's are the same as TT (Techtonics Tuning) cam's right down to the TT part #'s & are more than likely the same cam's.

http://techtonicstuning.com/camsspecs.asp

[Oneofthegreats]

8V are good for street and general use, but you can get so much more power out of a 16V, it's almost not funny.


Just out of interest sake.

It's actually been very well documented that it's easier to gain NA power out of a 8V on a cost vs power ratio due to the 16V poor cyl head design, which has been regarded as the worst designed VW cyl. head 2nd behind the VR6.

I've only read this & haven't done it, but they say it's also easier to extract double the output of an 8V vs 16V NA tuned.

In saying that though, if I had some spare coin for a nice daily driver, I personally wouldn't mind building a simple 2L 16V setup with Microtech LT8, EFI Hardware 45mm throttle bodies (The Badger5 complete 16V setup is £2350.00 GBP http://www.badger5.co.uk/ ), CR 10.9:1, cleaned up port's, TT 276° cams, 4-1 extractor's & 2.5" full flowing system.
Should make easily 200+hp properly tuned & be reasonable on the go juice.

But for less money, I could also throw a turbo on the 8V & make the same HP easier & with a ton more torque, which I reckon would be much more fun!

6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Your choice.

[Jarred]

Yea, I agree Tim.

Although I know nothing about the head designs, just from driving my 1.6 in the Golf, it was a much easier engine to drive, (and thrash) than my 1.6 16V (in the laser)

Sure the 8V was modified slightly, but the 16V you really have to ring it's neck to get power out of it, where as the natural tourqey-ness of the 8V makes it a much more streetable engine IMO.

Having said that. If I were to spend some dosh on a "race" engine, I would go a 2L 16V for sure. A nice set of cams, and well pretty much all the work the Preen is doing to his engine, I'd do if I was building a full blown Race engine. hence my recommendation to Pete.

Sure an 8V can get good power, more so with a turbo (duh) but a turbo on a 16V, would be exponentionally beneficial.

OF course it comes down to money. 8V has half the cams and valves, so it's already a bit cheaper. but money now object (or less of an object) a 16V for it's tunability.

Having said all that. I'm pretty sure I've just reapeated what you've said Tim, but just using different words! hahah oh well. :rolleyes:

[Golf Loon]

Beau and I were talking about this last weekend. A crazy 8v is quicker and more reliable than all but the most extreme 16v.

Also consider the american aba crossflow heads they can make stupid power from an 8v and can run kjet ;)

[GoLfMan]

i think i'd be more inclined to build myself a pretty crazy 2L 8v twins, big valve head, serious porting and all the exhaust hizzle dizzle for racing.

Torque wins races ;)

[twin eng, twin turbs]

A couple of more questions,

How big are the valves in the "Big Valve" 8v head?

What is the spec of the G Grind cam? 268 degrees?

Any links or websites I should read?

I'll drop the head off this week and see what the go is.

Pete

The valves in your head are 38mm inlet and 33mm exhaust. If you are interested i have a fully ported and polished head identical to yours with extensive porting and polishing, new valves 38mm x 33mm, guides and seals. It has had 0.08mm machinced off the deck and the combustion chambers cc'd, polished and matched. Its perfect for a street car and is surplus to my needs so i will be selling it. pm me if your interested :)

[Jarred]

Also consider the american aba crossflow heads they can make stupid power from an 8v and can run kjet ;)

I've thought about getting one from the US, already worked, and putting it on twins probably. But then again, I don't really have money for it, so I'll have to stick to GX's and so on an so forth... Oh well.I'll live.

[Preen59]

Golfworx, stop stealing my cams ideas!

Jarred, stop stealing everything else!! j:j:j:

Really its 8v for street, but if you want something with serious poke for competition, 16vs are the deal.

The 16v head is actually quite a good head. According to a guy from Greece named Spyros (oh its getting worse and worse here isn't it? haha) who is building a 1000hp (yeah thats three zeros) 2.1L 16v, he chose the VW 16v over a cosworth BDA or BDG because they have a better head and flow better.

[Oneofthegreats]

Beau and I were talking about this last weekend. A crazy 8v is quicker and more reliable than all but the most extreme 16v.

Also consider the american aba crossflow heads they can make stupid power from an 8v and can run kjet ;)

This is very true.

I've seen build up thread's on Vortex about ABA 8V's making some very nice hp & torque numbers both NA & turbo'd.

This is turning out to be one of the best thread's in a while.

[Jarred]

.... who is building a 1000hp (yeah thats three zeros) 2.1L 16v, ....

firstly.Spyros. hahaha

secondly :o:o:o!!!

I'm geussing this is turbo'd and must have some serious work done to it!

Got a link by anychance? :D

[GoLfMan]

This is very true.

I've seen build up thread's on Vortex about ABA 8V's making some very nice hp & torque numbers both NA & turbo'd.

This is turning out to be one of the best thread's in a while.

links to these threads mate? and whats the availabilities of these heads?

[Jarred]

links to these threads mate? and whats the availabilities of these heads?

just look on vortex, I've see a fair few threads with guys with ABAs on megasquirt and etc, but due to the quantity of threads on vortex, you might have to do a bit of searching.

From what I gather, ABA's are reasonably common in the US, but just shipping, and finding *just* a head that someone would be willing to send out, wouldn't make it worth while IMO.

For the money spent buying it, and getting it shipped over (due to it's weight) I think i'd be more economical monetarily, to spend the money on a head available here, and get more work done to it. If that makes sense at all.

Then again, I'm just spit balling here :?

[GoLfMan]

GROUP BUY j:
if we shipped bulk itd be sweet...
im just keen on the idea of not having the inlet over the exhaust so i dont get heat soak in my DCOE :(

[Oneofthegreats]

Golfworx, stop stealing my cams ideas!

Jarred, stop stealing everything else!! j:j:j:

Really its 8v for street, but if you want something with serious poke for competition, 16vs are the deal.

The 16v head is actually quite a good head. According to a guy from Greece named Spyros (oh its getting worse and worse here isn't it? haha) who is building a 1000hp (yeah thats three zeros) 2.1L 16v, he chose the VW 16v over a cosworth BDA or BDG because they have a better head and flow better.

DOH!!!

Sorry Preen. I totally forgot about that :confused:.
If I was going 11.0:1 CR on a semi race engine, I'd go bigger cams, but for most people if it's a purely street engine on PULP & maybe ULP, 276's would be very nice.

Although saying that, the people that know me from my past I would go bigger cause I love the rough idle & run a bigger stall.;)
My old every day'r ute had a 3000rpm stall.

I've read of a 1000+hp 16VT that split in half

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/04/1027hpVW15v2-2.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/04/1027hpVW16v-2.jpg

[GoLfMan]

now thats a break up that cost more than a divorce j:

[Jarred]

and you thought divorce was nasty and expensive! hhahaha

as for big cams with phat idles, I'm in love!

[Preen59]

now thats a break up that cost more than a divorce j:

HAHAHA, solid.

That's not it. CHECK OUT THE ROD LENGTH!!

I'll post a link to the forum when i find it.

[Preen59]

Oh yeah turbo, some weird small to big setup. He was talking something like 7 or 8 atmospheres (100/120 PSI) boost wise. Crazy.

[Preen59]

You think about it though, it's achievable.

BMW did it in F1 back in the 80s using standard off the production line cast iron 318i blocks.

1500 horsepower in qualifying trim pumping around 8 atmospheres.

They used to early entry the corners to make the straights longer because they got more benefit from the extra straight line speed than carrying corner speed! Black smoke plooming out the back of them.

Oh, and get this... 1.5 litre, 30mm stroke!

[Jarred]

F1 engine's are a whole nother topic! they are just insane, simply put.

Mind you, I've never like F1. Too much technology, and not enough actual talent.

I much prefer super saloons or pro street stuff. Mind you. I barely watch motorsport anymore. But I'll shut up now, because this is way off topic! :D

[Peter Jones]

Didn't know there was a 8v crossflow head. I'm beginning to plan a trip to the US early next year, I might have to pack light.

Keep the ideas coming, It's been a long while since I last built any motors and this is a great refresher. My motor experience is with aircooled stuff to so the watercooled specs are great knowledge to gain.

I've never really played with turbos, and I'm comfortable programming and setting up EFI or any other electronic system. (Designed and built my own efi computer at tafe). but somehow the idea of big sidedrafts and a silly cam is what appeals at the moment. I deal with complex electronic systems all day long, there's a lot to be said for the sheer simplicity of a big carby.An 8v would be a lot simpler to fit in the engine bay too.

Plenty of time for research and chin wagging.

Pete

[twin eng, twin turbs]

I cant beleive that pick of the 16vt block split in half! Thats unreal, sure says something for the quality of the other components used in the engine build up that it didnt break a conrod first and throw it through the side of the block! Ive seen some massive hp turbo 16v's and not just vw's using nitrous to bring the engine into boost quickly and eliminate the turbo lag associated with big turbos even though they are roller bearing units. I can remember brian at gti imports having some 8v cross flow heads from the states, he might be worth a try peter. But a better bet is ebay motors usa for the head, check this out, Item number: 370044397810. Its a 2l 8v cross flow head fully reco'd! Or a standard used one Item number: 320244682519. You can find heaps of goodies on ebay motors usa!;)

[Golf Loon]

That is an awesome pic. Imagine the bang that made letting go!!

I`d love to see an ABA crossflow motor in Oz.

I`d also like to see you get a head into your suitcase Pete!

I reckon a specialised junk yard in the US could surface mail you a head in 6 weeks for under $100.

[99gti]

Holy crap batman! That's my new wall paper - how cool is that!

[abreut]

I saw that split 16vt doing the rounds on vortex a while ago. Looking at it again, and being in the process of fabricating a short runner intake manifold myself, I can't believe how crap that intake manifold is. And the IC pipes have some horrible bends in them. Goes to show though whats achievable on what looks like only 2" IC pipes! Puts things in perspective. Mind you you can just see the exhaust manifold - spaghetti city.

[Peter Jones]

I`d love to see an ABA crossflow motor in Oz.



Sounds like a good idea to me!

Wonder what's out there in the way of manifolds:rolleyes:

Looks like the K-Jet would have to go.

I could start off with twin sidedrafts and progress to ITBs later on.

Hmmmm

Pete

[Golf Loon]

There was a fabulous Mk1 in Golf+ a couple of months ago with an aba engine running kjet in the uk. It is a rare setup over there too, but the yanks love it.

[GoLfMan]

you know you wanna get a whole shipment of ABA heads in loon :D

[Golf Loon]

you know you wanna get a whole shipment of ABA heads in loon :D

I`m not biting mate. I brought in 10 16vs and it took 4 years to get rid of em all! :o

[evorobin]

I`m not biting mate. I brought in 10 16vs and it took 4 years to get rid of em all! :o

Not 02 gearboxes though ;)

[Jarred]

ABA would help clear up the clutter, for sure.

ITB's, or quad carbs, defiantly the go, but I would be looking more forward to twin DCOE's! :D

[GoLfMan]

ABA would help clear up the clutter, for sure.

ITB's, or quad carbs, defiantly the go, but I would be looking more forward to twin DCOE's! :D

dude quad carbs FTW, cheaper than DCOE's and prob sound just as horn :D

[Peter Jones]

Have you ever tried to tune multi carb setups?

2 side drafts is about my limit.

I helped out syncronising 6 down drafts on a V12 Jag engine once. Never again!


Pete

[Jarred]

I helped out syncronising 6 down drafts on a V12 Jag engine once. Never again!


:o :o!!

wah there. I would lve quad IDF's or smething similar on a V8! aaahhhh! yea baby.

Jsh is right though, PM Dom abut the quad bike carbs. Very similar to ITB's, and cmpact design, + gd price makes them a very option! :)

[Preen59]

:o :o!!

wah there. I would lve quad IDF's or smething similar on a V8! aaahhhh! yea baby.

Jsh is right though, PM Dom abut the quad bike carbs. Very similar to ITB's, and cmpact design, + gd price makes them a very option! :)

Pitty they look like crap compared to a pair of DCOEs. :D

And yes i CAN say that, because i DO own a pair. j:

[Golf Houso]

There was a mk1 caddy in PVW recently running on quad snowmobile carbs which was interesting.

Quick question can you run American spec ABA cams and cam gears, lifters etc in 2E golf motors? Like the ones you get from TM tuning and MJM autohaus?

I'm looking for a few things to put into my golf.

[abreut]

a question - are the cross-flow 8v's in some mkIV's over here, I think they were used in beetles, ABA's?

A mate of mine is a mechanic at a euro workshop and he has now scored two cross-flow 8v heads. I forgot to ask him what they are off. We are thinking about building up our old rally golf with a set of twin dellortos. I think the cam is the same as a counter-flow hydraulic 8v's btw, I 'll see if I can get some numbers off it this w/e.

[Golf Houso]

Cool, thanks for that. I'd be kicking myself if I bought $500 worth of mean parts and being told by my mechanic after the valves were bent that they weren't the right ones :mad:

I do believe they are the same,but I'd still like to hear it from someone telling me that its the case, I just emailed mjm and I'm waiting for a response. Get ready 2.slow drivers!

Crossflow head? :D gimme!

[abreut]

No worries but let me check first because I could be wrong!

[Peter Jones]

After lots of indecision I bit the bullet and ordered one of these and some HD springs to go with it.


268° (Advertised)
109 071 (Part Number)
$130.00 (US$)
245°/244.5° (Duration @.020" In/Ex)
232.5°/231° (Duration @1mm In/Ex)
226°/225° (Duration @.050" In/Ex)
.440" (Lift)
110° (Lobe centre)
2.8° BTDC (In open @ .050")


All Hyd. Except OBD II Fair Idle** (Comment)


http://techtonicstuning.com/showpart.asp?partnum=109.071

I was torn between just popping a G Grind in there or ordering a new Cam, in the end I just figured I'd go for broke. I reckon this is about as far as I could go on the GX motor running K-Jet.

Maybe I should have gone slightly lower spec but what the Hell, I can always use it in my project 2.0L cross flow later on.

Pete

[Oneofthegreats]

Not a bad choice Pete. I've got some tool's here to fit the Valve Spring's with the head on if you need to borrow them.

You can still go a fair bit bigger even with K-Jet.
The Autotech 270 is a tiny bit bigger & I never had any trouble's with it on K-Jet & can recommend this to anyone. Very smooth idle.

I just ordered a 276 cam.
It's the second largest hyd. I could find & should be pretty lumpy. 10whp increase they reckon & power come's on strong from 4000rpm.

Hopefully have it next week & have it installed next weekend. Will give an update how it is.

On the flip side, you should try & upgrade your K-Jet to a Volvo 240 2.2L setup with a Audi throttle body.
The improvement is fairly substantial & is easily noticable.

One other thing you mentioned in your PI post is about revving your engine into to the fuel gauge.
I can safely say this, as I had a stock GX at one time & the problem is, it's not making anymore power after 5500rpm, so your just flogging a dead horse revving it that hard.
The 268 will make nice power, but still revving it this hard is a waist.

I revved my 270 to 6700rpm cleanly & it was just starting to nose over at the end of Symmond's Plain's at a indicated 195km/h with a stock Diesel 4 speed.
I'd only rev it to 6200rpm between gear shift's & let the improve bottom end response & torque pull through the gear's.
I also had the cam timing retarded by 2 degree's for alittle more in the top end.

[Peter Jones]

Not a bad choice Pete.

You can still go a fair bit bigger even with K-Jet.
The Autotech 270 is a tiny bit bigger & I never had any trouble's with it on K-Jet & can recommend this to anyone.

I just ordered a 276 cam.
It's the second largest hyd. I could find & should be pretty lumpy. 10whp increase they reckon & power come's on strong from 4000rpm.

Hopefully have it next week & have it installed next weekend. Will give an update how it is.

On the flip side, you should try & upgrade your K-Jet to a Volvo 240 setup with a Adui throttle body.
The improvement is fairly substantial & is easily noticable.

One other thing you mentioned in your PI post is about revving your engine into to the fuel gauge.
I can safely say this, as I had a stock GX at one time & the problem is, it's not making anymore power after 5500rpm, so your just flogging a dead horse revving it that hard.
The 268 will make nice power, but still revving it this hard is a waist.
I revved my 270 to 6700rpm cleanly & it was just starting to nose over at the end of Symmond's Plain's at a indicated 195km/h with a stock Diesel 4 speed.
I'd only rev it to 6200rpm between gear shift's & let the improve bottom end response & torque pull through the gear's.

Point taken about the rpm. My car has the very tall ratio 5 speed in it and with the GX motor there's just not enough power to bother changing up a gear before the next corner. 4th Gear is next to useless as the car barely accelerates in 4th - it just doesn't have the power. It also takes a long time to wind out in 3rd. So what happens is that I just hold 3rd a bit longer between corners rather than changing up to 4th. There's more acceleration to be had above 5500 in third than there is to be had by changing to 4th (No Joke!).

4th is sort of like overdrive in the car you only use it for constant speed, there's just no acceleration.

Even around town you can't get any power out of it at low RPM. Even just pulling out of a suburban side-street in second gear it struggles. It's always liked to rev though.

I think everything is working OK it's just the lowest powered of the 1800s with the tallest ratio box.

It's a work in progress, all your suggestions and comments are being taken on board, I've got a lot of learning to do yet.:)

With regard to the throttle body, the chap doing the headwork at the moment is seeing what he can come up with on that front. I've pretty much left all that up to him to work out. His last suggestion was a large bore single valve TB, again I'll trust him to do the right thing there. Likewise I left him mumbling away about bigger valves and porting etc. His eyes just sort of glazed over as he was rubbing the head in a very intimate way. Sometimes it's better not knowing. I'll post photos and details when I get it back.

I'll do the Volvo 240 fuel distributor thing too as soon as I can lay my hands on one. There's a good cleaned set of injectors on the way too to replace my mismatched set.

I was toying with the idea of the tt 276degree cam (http://techtonicstuning.com/showpart.asp?partnum=109.074)but I didn't want to go too nuts with this as I still want to build a motor from scratch next year. I pick up the base 2.0L motor tomorrow in fact.(And the bigger cam was also another US$70)

I have a diesel 4 speed in my other Golf which is going to be swapped out for a Cordoba 5 speed soon. I'll see how the head mod goes at improving torque/power and then make a decision about putting the 4 speed back into this car.

Pete

[Golf Houso]

Are these parts you have purchased Peter Jones, going to go into that 2e vento motor you just acquired? I always see the whole "fits all 8v hydro" caption on so many items and have a bit of trouble believing it, I guess its true now.

What HD springs did you get?

[Golf Loon]

What gearbox code is it?
We just took a 4T diesel box out of the rocco. had the tallest 2nd to 110kph! and 4th and 5th were so similar on the highway.
That was only being pushed by a 1.6 8v carby, so would be awesome with a bigger motor.

[Peter Jones]

Are these parts you have purchased Peter Jones, going to go into that 2e vento motor you just acquired? I always see the whole "fits all 8v hydro" caption on so many items and have a bit of trouble believing it, I guess its true now.

What HD springs did you get?

They'll go in the GE 1800 K-jet for the moment.

The 2.0 is a longer term project.

These are the springs, nothing too extreme.
http://techtonicstuning.com/showpart.asp?partnum=109.081S

Pete

[Peter Jones]

What gearbox code is it?
We just took a 4T diesel box out of the rocco. had the tallest 2nd to 110kph! and 4th and 5th were so similar on the highway.
That was only being pushed by a 1.6 8v carby, so would be awesome with a bigger motor.

Must have a look at that one day :) Once the head is back on I'll figure out the whole gearbox thing.

Pete

[Preen59]

Hey Pete,

The TT springs and valves are Supertech. I found that out after i purchased the valves for my 16v from them.

Get on Ebay and look them up, you can get them cheapest from an Ebay store in the US. That's where i'll be purchasing my springs from.

This is the cheapest place for valves, springs and retainers. Buy your stud kits from them at the same time and you'll save on postage.

http://search.stores.ebay.com/Performance-Closeout_vw_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ3QQfsnZPerformanceQ2 0CloseoutQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ221766068QQsofpZ0

[Preen59]

Here is that 1000HP mk2.

http://www.vwfixx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=25719&st=0

As promised.

[Peter Jones]

I looked up all the gearbox codes and now I'm more confused than ever.

Here's the list.

White MK1 '79 Golf (Track car) 1800 GX KJet (85hp)

FF09091
1 2 3 4 5 R&P
3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 3.89

Red Golf MK1 '79 (Runabout) 1800 (ex '96 Cordoba) ADZ Weber DGAV (89hp with mono motronic)

GC (Diesel)
3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 N/a 3.89

Spare Gearbox

CHB20036
3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.85 3.67

So just on the face of it the ratios between Red and white are identical for 1st 2nd and 3rd.

I had thought based on performance that Red's box had lower ratios, I guess Red just simply has heaps more power.(Which isn't really confirmed by the factory numbers)

So I guess the plan still is to put the spare gearbox into Red. It was out of a Cordoba so it should be a good match for the motor.

The plot for white is another question. I suppose I'll see what the headwork and new cam does to improve the situation and go from there. I'll keep an eye on the for sale section as always;)

I also have this 2e vento motor to consider ..hmmmm

Pete

[Water Boy]

I also have this 2e vento motor to consider ..hmmmm

Yes now that would be the way to go later on :D

[Peter Jones]

Yes now that would be the way to go later on :D


Doing lots of reading on that score :rolleyes:

I've read every 2.0l thread on Vortex and I'm working my way through the induction and fuelling threads at the moment.

I'm not in a hurry , I've got plenty of time to research.

Also I just got a TT catalog in the mail with the Cam I ordered. That's gonna cost me.


Pete