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peter_j_g
03-07-2005, 08:25 PM
Hi,

My car won't start! I've methodically checked fuel filters, fuel supply to the injectors, glow plugs etc etc, and even called the NRMA as a last resort... who suggested I get the car towed to a VW dealer.

My conclusion is that there isn't quite enough compression combined with the now colder weather. I've had occasional problems with blowby (see previous posts), but otherwise the car has been running well, starting first go and has used 1 litre oil in 5,000km, which is normal.

Can anyone suggest where I can get either a reconditioned engine or my own engine reconditioned? I've found suppliers both in the UK and the US but shipping and returning makes this uneconomic.

I'd do the work myself but I'm pushed for time with work & house renovations. According to my workshop manual the rings can be replaced with the motor in the car - anyone tried this? I've rebuilt engines before so would think a rebore & oversize pistons would be the best, although this means taking the whole motor out!

My other option would be to sell as is and treat myself to a new TDI...

imported_brackie
03-07-2005, 09:27 PM
Wouldn't we all love a new Tdi??? In lieu of that, a quick ring job would be cheaper. Yes, it can be done with the engine in the car and it's cheap enough if you source the parts in the US. But first... Check everything else, You say your glow plugs are OK. Are you sure? What about the relay? Eliminate all else before spending time and money on a re-build. If you suspect low compression do yourself and your bank account a favour and have a compression test done. Compression has to be really low before it affects starting. Even with considerable blow by to the point of runaway, it should still start. I would strongly suspect glow plugs to be the culprit. Get back to me if you want a step-by-step checklist.

peter_j_g
03-07-2005, 09:49 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your comments! I've checked the glow plugs by pulling them out individually and wiring them to the battery, they all get hot! When in place you can see the voltage drop when they are on, and hear the relay click out and the voltage come up again after 1 minute or so.

You're right the best thing is to check the compression, I don't have a compression tester rated high enough for a diesel, so getting one of these should be the next step. I've also checked the shut-off solenoid, and then loosened each fuel pipe at the injectors and you can see fuel weeping out as it's cranked over. I've also got a hand primer fitted, and when pumping this fuel is comming out of the return pipe from the pump.

I'd be interested in your check list - maybe there is something that I've missed.

Thanks again!

DOHCDAVE
03-07-2005, 11:53 PM
Don't buy a compression tester, Call a local mech and ask if you can get your motor tested couldn't imagine it would be much as it is an easy test.
As for the rest well i would make sure the plugs are working insitue as testing them alone will only eleminate the fact that the plugs heat up.
And noticing a voltage change is good but are they working while there in place, is there diesel getting to the filter, as i had put injector cleaner through mine a few years ago and it was running fine until Mon came to go to work car had been siting for the weekend got half way to work and it slowly came to a stop. Took few hrs to find but had no fuel after the filter as it was fully blocked with the crap in the tank that had come adrift over the weekend while sitting there with injector cleaner in the tank.
Don't panic to much as it doesn't sound terminal, just recheck and recheck keep us posted as i would hope some advice was useful in this forum.
Which i gotta say has made me right at home, now i can talk to you guys about problems :idea: 's and alsorts of stuff.
Good luck with your beast, remember mine going forever, use to think the fuel gauge was broken all the time it would never run out .
GO THE DIESELS!!
________________________
:twisted: MK1 THE BEST :twisted:

:arrow: 16V EVEN BETTER :arrow:

DOHCDAVE
04-07-2005, 12:01 AM
Try checking the relays as it shouldn't take a minute or so to heat up, 20 -30 sec or so should they should be cooking. SO look into that mayb.
Cheers
Dave






_____________________________
:twisted: MK1 the best :twisted:

imported_brackie
04-07-2005, 08:08 AM
Try checking the relays as it shouldn't take a minute or so to heat up, 20 -30 sec or so should they should be cooking.

You'll have the slow glow system. I believe all Golfs delivered in Oz had it. I installed the quick glow plugs and relay in mine and what a difference! I got them brand new from ebay US and they cost me $70 complete including postage.
Don't be fooled into thinking that because they get hot everthing's OK. A duff relay can cause all kinds of probems, as can a stuffed cylinder head temp. sensor. Supply 12v direct to the glow plug bus from the battery (hook a heavy gauge wire over the fuse on the bulkhead) and give her 20sec. If she starts then you know it's either the sensor or the relay. (Be sure to unhook the wire as soon as she starts of you'll burn out the plugs!)To eliminate the sensor, ground the spade connector that goes on it. This will tell the relay that the head is stone cold and again give her 20 seconds. Whatever you do don't buy parts from a VW dealer! Get them from the US or UK. I can suggest sources but most of mine come from ebay.

You'll find this page really useful, but if it doesn't work for you I have access to official VW training manual. PM me if you need it.
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/CheapTricks/GlowPlugs.shtml

syncro
04-07-2005, 02:15 PM
Whatever you do don't buy parts from a VW dealer!

Why :?:

GoLfMan
04-07-2005, 03:55 PM
Why :?:[/quote] cos they'll charge an arm and a leg for em

syncro
04-07-2005, 04:13 PM
You don't know unless you ask.

Check out Oil Filters or G11 coolant.

imported_brackie
04-07-2005, 04:25 PM
You don't know unless you ask.

Check out Oil Filters or G11 coolant.
Hey, you must know some that I don't! Firstly, they only sell genuine. Not that it's always bad, 'cos the manufacturers are often the same as those who supply aftermarket. The BIG difference is the mark-up. They get so used to supplying parts to "captive" buyers (those who know little about how cars work and just put it in the workshop and say,"Fix it!") that they apply the same pricing over the counter. If you were to build a Golf out of their parts bin it would end up costing a million dollars. The reason I buy from overseas is that in other countries the parts sellers have a much higher turnover and can discount their price. (High turnover/small profit.) It doesn't sound very Australian as I know I should be supporting local businesses, but I do if they aren't too greedy.

imported_brackie
04-07-2005, 04:33 PM
It doesn't sound very Australian as I know I should be supporting local businesses, but I do if they aren't too greedy.

Oh...Now I'm feeling guilty! I do in fact buy local. John Hall in Devonport has sourced heaps of stuff for me. He's a workshop and not a VW dealer but he's a great guy and looks after VW enthusiasts.

syncro
04-07-2005, 04:58 PM
I bought a Volkswagen so I like to keep it a Volkswagen.(within reason) I've seen many stuffed Golf engines caused by non genuine parts.

GoLfMan
04-07-2005, 05:09 PM
fair call but if you know that the part works and doesnt do damage to the engine why not?? some aftermarket parts are better quality and are better for the engine than some genuine parts

syncro
04-07-2005, 06:31 PM
IF you know that they are better then OK. They're usually not though. Things like oil filters are a false economy and the price is nearly the same between genuine and OEM.

GoLfMan
04-07-2005, 07:11 PM
IF you know that they are better then OK. They're usually not though. Things like oil filters are a false economy and the price is nearly the same between genuine and OEM.

oil filters i agree with buying genuine.. or a high quality aftermarket... but aftermarket is becoming risky nowadays with all this chinese **** flooding the market :evil:

peter_j_g
04-07-2005, 09:00 PM
Interesting how this topic has digressed! I agree with comments about genuine/non-genuine, I try to stick to OEM or genuine. Also checking the VW dealer price is often a good idea, although they don't carry much for 25 year old golfs anymore!

But back to the topic....

I've wired the glow plugs to the battery so I can operate them manually, and also connected the stop solenoid to the battery. I think these two eliminate any electrical problems, however still no go!

I've read on an american web site about priming the fuel pump with ATF - anyone tried this?

Thanks!

imported_brackie
04-07-2005, 09:24 PM
Atf won't hurt your pump in the short term. However.... what reason do you have to believe there's no diesel in the pump body? You said that you are getting diesel at the injectors at turnover. This wouldn't happen if the pump was full of air. I'm beginning to think that the problem may lie in fuel supply. There should be a clear plastic hose from your fuel filter to the pump. Are there air bubbles in this? How long since you put in a new filter? When the motor turns over does it fire at all? If you need to prime the pump you must do it by putting clean diesel into the outlet banjo. Alternatively, you can suck diesel through the pump by applying a vacuum to the same. Have you tried tow starting the car?

peter_j_g
04-07-2005, 09:38 PM
I think I've eliminated the electrical side of things, so I'm turning my attention back to the fuel. I am getting some fuel at the injectors - but maybe it's not enough? My fuel line isn't clear plastic, it's solid rubber, so I can't see if there are air bubbles. I have a non-standard CAV filter system, which first has a glass bowl water trap where the fuel filter normally goes, and then a CAV fuel filter by the windscreen washer bottle.

I'll try a new filter, current one has served around 3,000km, and I'll also get a new primary filter that sits in the fuel tank.

It's uphill from my garage to the road, and not many big hills around, but will try towing if I'm still stuck!

Thanks again - I'll post when I have an update...

imported_brackie
05-07-2005, 07:00 AM
Don't suppose water could have got in during the recent wet weather? Drop the glass bowl and see what you get out. (Water doesn't combust too well!) I'm still not convinced it's low compression that's the culprit. I've had engines on their last legs that would still start. I'd strongly recommend clear plastic lines both in and out of the filter. You can see straight away if there's any air. The primary fillter in the tank can cause problems. Hopefully you don't have any fungi growing in there! I had that problem back in WA and had to clean the tank and the whole system out. Black, gooey stuff.

gldgti
20-07-2005, 11:33 PM
i've had a similar problem with mine on occasions, which was always resolved by tow starting.

I use an aftermarket (i imagine all of you wincing) filter, with 2 - count em - 2 little clear plastic $2 filters that you get from a box at supercheap auto. the 2 filters go infront of the main filter to get rid of any nasties before they go and clog up my nice $20 dollar filter

the 2 plastic ones are in parallel too - this slows the flow rate so that water, black gooey crud and other non fuel deposites dont actually get stuck in the filter - they sit in the bottom of the plastic housing where you can look at em.

anyway, if you've ruled out electrical problems, then definately give it a good prime and try a tow start. you can also try loosening the injector lines to rid each line of air - air bubbles seem to like to stay present and often air will be immovable trapped in the solid lines. you just back off a couple of the lines at a time by a turn or tow (so they are actually loose.) when you crank it you should find fuel dribbling out allover your injectors (ahh well, never mind the mess)

good luck

aydan

Golf Loon
20-07-2005, 11:55 PM
Yeah I`ve pushed untold golfs up and down roads, only to have them start immediately with a tow start. Get a friend and some rope and you`re set!

imported_brackie
21-07-2005, 06:50 AM
Towing and using high revs by (perhaps) dropping her into 2nd, should get her going. The extra revs generate a bit of heat which always helps and builds up fuel pressure. This should purge any air left in the pump and lines. Can't remember any diesel that I've done major work on that I haven't tow started.

peter_j_g
23-07-2005, 06:37 PM
Hi all,

Well folks I finally had the time to have another go at getting the Golf going. Towed it up the drive, then down the street to a small hill. Wife & eldest son pushing, wait till the speed got to 40km/h, 2nd gear, glow plugs on, then let out the clutch and ..... booom!!!! Away she went almost instantly! Huge cloud of smoke, but it settled down after 1km or so. Drove around a little bit, enjoying the mobility, then back home. Washed the car, it started normally, went to the nearby service station and filled it up. Started normally, then back home, stopped on the driveway and swept out the garage, then tried to start again. No go. Motor spins over fast enough but just won't quite fire. Enough for today, will try again later...

Maybe I need to move house to the top of a big long hill!!!

peter_j_g
23-07-2005, 07:37 PM
Following on from the last post - Curiousity got the better of me, so I had to try it again - this time it started after turning over a few times! Let's see if it starts in the morning...

Has anyone tried a fuel additive/cleaner? I've used wynns diesel injector cleaner on occasions. Any brand better than another? Thanks!

syncro
23-07-2005, 08:32 PM
Hi all,

Well folks I finally had the time to have another go at getting the Golf going. Towed it up the drive, then down the street to a small hill. Wife & eldest son pushing, wait till the speed got to 40km/h, 2nd gear, glow plugs on, then let out the clutch and ..... booom!!!! Away she went almost instantly! Huge cloud of smoke, but it settled down after 1km or so. Drove around a little bit, enjoying the mobility, then back home. Washed the car, it started normally, went to the nearby service station and filled it up. Started normally, then back home, stopped on the driveway and swept out the garage, then tried to start again. No go. Motor spins over fast enough but just won't quite fire. Enough for today, will try again later...

Maybe I need to move house to the top of a big long hill!!!

Have you uprated your starter cable and earth yet?

peter_j_g
23-07-2005, 08:47 PM
Hi "syncro",

Interesting comment, I've noticed that both the starter and earth cables get very warm when cranking the engine. Does uprating the cables make a big difference? What size cable should I go for?

Thanks!

imported_brackie
23-07-2005, 08:53 PM
Earth cables were always a weak point. Go to Supercheap and buy a suitable length cable. Bolt it to the neg terminal and then to any of the bolts on the passenger side engine mount. You will be amazed at the difference! (However, I have a feeling that your glow plug relay could be playing up. It often results in an intermittent fault like the one that you are experiencing.)

DOHCDAVE
23-07-2005, 10:39 PM
Peter you asked about fuel additive try FUEL DOCTOR it's green liquid in a clear bottle know the guy personly he's local to bris used it in the truck i was driving blew lots of smoke until started using fuel doctor got more klm's and generaly ran with a little more power. 1 bottle will last for a while as it recommends to give it a shock dose then about 25ml per tank.
Check out their web site think it is fueldoctors.com.au read up on it he showed me 6 or 7 different brands that sit alongside it on the shelf at supercheap and proved to me that it was the better of them takes to long to explain it to you guys but check the site out don't know how much info is there. But what the hell go and get a bottle and try it to the doctors recommendations and you should notice a diff.
Anyhow just a thought
cheers Dave

_____________________
:twisted: MK1 THE BEST :twisted:

76 MK1 16V
80 Audi CD 100 5E
85 Audi CD 100

syncro
24-07-2005, 08:36 AM
Interesting comment, I've noticed that both the starter and earth cables get very warm when cranking the engine. Does uprating the cables make a big difference? What size cable should I go for?


When you try to start with the starter, you are drawing a very high current. The higher current the higher the voltage drop, the less heat in the glow plugs and speed of the starter. The starter cable and the earth straps are far too small on a Golf Diesel and most of the old GLDs that I have seen were modified years ago.

You can run multiple earth cables to the engine and starter mounting bolts and just get a thicker cable for the battery to starter cable.

imported_brackie
24-07-2005, 09:28 AM
Interesting comment, I've noticed that both the starter and earth cables get very warm when cranking the engine. Does uprating the cables make a big difference? What size cable should I go for?


You can run multiple earth cables to the engine and starter mounting bolts and just get a thicker cable for the battery to starter cable.

Yeah...Starter bolts are a better option, You can't get much closer than that!

gldgti
03-08-2005, 10:42 AM
the starter eath cable stuff is all good, but if its cranking over ok then make sure its not air thats the problem...

make absolutely positively sure that you dont have any air leaks letting your pump drain dry after the engines been off for a while. when i say this, i mean tighten all of your fuel line hose clamps so that you KNOW that air wont get in, make absolutely sure that your return lines are all without holes or cracks (they tend to crack up where they go over the nipple on the side of the injectors) and that all the banjo fittings on your pump are secure.

a lot of people go on about having air in the system making your diesel run badly, but the golf pump is not so susceptible because of its "self priming" ability - it tends to bleed out the air quite well - when the engine is running. SOME pumps will self prime well, not all, and so air before startup is a problem. depending on where the air can get in and how you parked your car (slope etc) you might not have any problems at all with an air leak or you might have trouble starting all the time. its hit and miss, annoying and i'm speaking from experience - mine did this kind of thing after every fuel system adjustment at one time in the past...

peter_j_g
10-08-2005, 06:26 PM
Like all good stories this has a happy ending!

I've added a big earth cable from the battery, this made a suprising difference, even though I had cleaned the original earth cable mounting points. The engine spins over much faster now.

I've also added the cam oil deflector (thanks crazygee) which has slowed down the accumulation of oil in the inlet manifold.

I've used a fuel additive and also have adjusted the max fuel screw on the injector pump back a bit.

Now it's running sweetly!

On hindsight the main problem probably was with the fuel, trouble is this car is just way too economical so it only gets filled up occasionally.... so I must drive it more!

Thanks for all the tips!

imported_brackie
10-08-2005, 08:11 PM
Pleased that it all turned out right for you, Peter. Cherish your diesel. She is precious! (I'm desparately trying to sort my Pug diesel and get it right for licensing. Heaps to do but no time!)