Problems again =(

[86gti]

ok, ill start from the top.
about 6 moths ago i was having trouble starting the car when it was hot.
It would misfire and run pretty badly if it was in traffic around town for over 15 mins or so...
I investigated and found a few reasons why it would do it and one of them was the intank fuel pump.
apparently when the tank runs low often it stuffs the pump....
and most of the time the car played up it was just blow 1/4 of a tank.
So i have always made shure i had over 1/4 of a tank of fuel and things seem to clear up, always easy to start, never started playing up around town and was back to normal.............
BUT. the last 2 days it wont start when its hot unless i run start it or leave it sitting for about 10 mins - 15 mins. turn the key and for a split second it seem asif it wants to go, then just goes to turning over with no bang...
:(
anyone have any ideas.???????? HELP! lol..im sick of parking on hills.

running 2E motor with CIS.

[GoLfMan]

sounds like the problem i have with my lawnmower, itll start fine, try and start it hot and it just wont fire :( i wanna know what the problem is aswell...
ignition system?????

[86gti]

HAHAHA!....my mower is the same.....
but i dont get stuck in the drive through bottle shop with tha mower....
and its a good excuse not to mow. :-P
but id say its the ignition module in the mower tho :-)

[joshyd-mk2gti]

its an easy job changing over the intank fuel pump. although its probably got nothing to do with your starting problems. after i changed mine i noticed the car ran better. you can go below 1/4 tank and theres no more surging at full throttle.

[86gti]

its an easy job changing over the intank fuel pump. although its probably got nothing to do with your starting problems. after i changed mine i noticed the car ran better. you can go below 1/4 tank and theres no more surging at full throttle.

yea, ive had it out a couple of times, but i dont think thats the problem...mite be, dunno :-(...lol, i just wanna make shure first:D

[Golf Loon]

Does it do it with throttle fullopen, or closed? I always push the pedal 3 times and then turn the key and should start first go.

[Golfwise]

Pushing the accelerator pedals makes no difference with k jet, it works with a carby cos of the accelerator pump.
The lift pump should be replaced at the first sign of trouble as they can cause the main pump to fail and they are a lot cheaper.I'll send you one for $80

[gtimk5]

As I pmd 86. Get your fuel pressures tested. 3 different tests. :?

[86gti]

well, im pretty shure its the intank pump.......
but i thourght it would be a good idea to replace the fuel filter....
got it in and was nipping up the line when the spanner slipped and i cracked the plastic tank that the main pump goes into!!!!
....i have some special glue used for fuel tanks here that i found amoungst stuff dad had from the wokshop b4 he retired..
so ill see how that goes for now, but if anyone has the plastic tank please let me know...i just have to get it going ASAP because i cant get to work otherwise...
wouldnt run for anylonger than 5mins last night..then a 2 hour wait untill it would go again....but even then it was starving.

so......things i need list.....
intank pump.
plastic mini tank that the main pump fits into.
atleast 2 bottles of johnnie walker blue label :confused:

[DVR68U]

so......things i need list.....
intank pump.
plastic mini tank that the main pump fits into.
atleast 2 bottles of johnnie walker blue label :confused:
haha 2 bottles , that will be a good weekendlol good luck with the problem
cheers brenton

[86gti]

lol. managed to get a new pump up here.
like to put in a good word for "petroject / Auto service solutions"
in Lindsay street invermay...thanks for the tip off Andrew :-)
just about to try and repair the mini tank thingamahjiggy....
so hopefully the new filter and intank pump will fix the problem......

all i need now is the little tank and the bottles of JW. (as far as i know)
spent most of the night on
http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/category.jspa?categoryName=volkswagen

and found a tonne of ppl with the same problem, and nearly all of them said it was the intank pump..so..hm....without the testing gear ill have to take my chances..:D

[dubstar]

If you are still having trouble finding the plastic tank, try www.vwspares.co.nz. I'm sure Nigel and Alan (the owners) will be able to send one over to you.

[86gti]

If you are still having trouble finding the plastic tank, try www.vwspares.co.nz. I'm sure Nigel and Alan (the owners) will be able to send one over to you.
cheers Dubstar!
if patched it up with a fuel proof epoxy for now and it seems to work really well...fixed all that up and put the new filter in and it seems to be fine now...didnt even have to use the new pump....(touch wood)
so as far as i know it was the filter that was the problem...took it for a long drive tonight and got it hot, ran well, tuned it off every few klmz and it started straight away....
cleaned both pumps up and cleaned all contacts..and noticably goes allot better now...
so if you having trouble with fuel starvation replace the filter first n save $$ haha.
ill see how it goes this week..hopefully ive fixed it..

thanks for the help pplz......!!!:D

[gtimk5]

That sounds like good news Benny. Well done mate. Pain of a weekend for you, eh?:)

[86gti]

That sounds like good news Benny. Well done mate. Pain of a weekend for you, eh?:)

lol, yea, just hope that is all it was!
got the intank pump while i was intown just incase..but its good to have spares anyway..
wait n see how it goes through the week :-)

[86gti]

ok, seems that wasnt it :-(
started fine this morning, fine after work, then at servicestation was fine again, got home and let the temp come up a bit, turned it off and it took about 5 goes swinging off the keys for it to start...turned it off again, went in, got changed came out wouldnt go at all unless i flattned my foot to the floor...bit like it was flooding and needed some air.....let it cool down and started fine again...isnt surging anymore though....
any ideas????? also most times when it didnt start the motor would kik back abit..but not every time..also seems to be using a bit more fuel ....cant get a good idea cause my MFA only works when it wants to..most days it says 12MPG others it says 32MPG or anywhere in between...

[86gti]

update again...
went for 3 mins after work..and now refuses to go at all....
putiin intank pump in after work tomorrow :-(

[Golfwise]

Don't forget to disconnect the battery .

[86gti]

yep, did that put it in..still doing the same thing, will start first up and run for about 2 mins then just die, also dies if u press the accelerator.
no one in the north of the state has a clue whats going on :-S .....
not naming names but a specialist up here tried to tell me they only have 1 pump in the golf..... Id rater someone work on it who actually knows a bit!!!!
anyone know of any one in the Launnie area who actually knows a bit about Kjetronic???
if i cant find anyone i may have to trailer it down south :confused:
I dont mind eliminating things by buying new stuff..atleast i know i've got all new parts but what should i start with...lol

im going mad driving the zooki to work evry day!!!!! haha

[roccodingo]

Benny, did you manage to get the fuel system pressures checked ??

Cant for the life of me remember if you have a manual with the Kjet fuel charts in or not..:?

[86gti]

nah, havnt checked yet Grant. Dont have a manual but a bentley Manual and the bosch K-jet Manual have been ordered!! going to try and find someone with some knowledge of K-jet around Launnie tomorow..
its just bloody annoying, haha my alcohol and cigarette consumption has gone up 300%...

[joshyd-mk2gti]

ive been reading vwvortex looking for answer. theres lots of threads on the topic, have a search. theres not always the same cure thou, unfortunately.

next time its hot unplug the coolant temp sensor and see if it starts.

[86gti]

yea, went through vortex back in dec when it last did it.....found allot more on
www.vwfixx.com...
what i really need is a fuel pressure tester. got a price on one today but it will have to wait a couple of weeks.
roccodingo gave me a few tips on testing a few things so I will get onto that on sunday i hope :-S. just trailered it home tonight....
If i dont have any luck Pertroject (automotive sevice solutions) put me onto a few people on the Launceston area who are familiar with the system.
we just wait n see what happens..to make matters worse my zooki just started playing up too...i think its just fouled a plug...i hope...not having any luck latley, haha

[gtimk5]

I can probably lend you a tester Benny for a very short period. You have a manual I hope? Did you check for voltage at the pump when it wouldn't go? Relay? :?

[86gti]

ok, got the guage of Andrew (thanks heaps!!!)...
made up an inline fuesd switch in the pump relay and
did a few tests first ,that all checked out..
(1)intank pump test was 13.5oz in 10 sec..i got it in 8 sec so pum is fine (should be its new)
(2)control pressure reg had continuity but i had no multi meter to test resistance (should have one tomorrow)..
(3) cold start valve checked out ok
(4)thermo time switch checked out ok

all that was fine. car still not starting at all at tht stage.

but........ i couldnt hear the main pump at all..no pressure at cranking, and no noise! it wasnt going. so i pulled the pump out and submersed it in some fuel and hot wired it off the battery, and it was pumping fine!!!! let it pump away for about 10 mins and was whirring away nicley.
..so. refitted it to the car and flicked the switch i had made up to bypass the relay and it was working again....
soooo. i reconnected the coil lead and the relay and it fired up allbeit very rough.

managed to get theese readings on pressure.
im gathering from the manual when it says close valve on the pressure line
that would mean off

System Pressure while running from dead cold valve closed (press guage) went straight upto 70psi and the car would cough and die whenever it got there. did the same thing 5-6 times always at just on 70psi.

with the valve open (on guage) it would run at 50psi but took along time to get there and was still running rough. till stalling after around 3-4 mins still at 50 psi but fluctuating a bit. also backfired cupla times through the a/f meter while trying to start.

turnned motor off and was holding between 45 to 48psi of residual pressure.(valve open) car cold...wouldnt run long enough to get warm..
manual says between 49-55psi when warm.

ran the pumps and it went down to 25psi and returned to 48 when the pumps were turned off.(valve open).


couldn't do control pressure because the car will not start again.
the car would try to start for a second whenever i turned the pumps on and off while turning the car over, but still no go.

so i then tryed fuel pump delivery rate.
in the manual it says 675cm3 at 12volts in 30 sec.
i aroundabout worked that out to be about 22oz in 30 sec.:confused:
in 30 sec it only pumped 11oz.

anyway..few pics below...all in one file so may take a lil while to load.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2006/08/Goodtimesgolf-1.jpg

[gtimk5]

Keep going Benny, I'm off to Melbourne this week and I don't need the manual straight away.
Anyone had this problem before??

[Golf Loon]

Sounds like a tired main pump.

[86gti]

yea, i was thinking main pump too, pressure was ok, but flow test left allot to be desired... so far everything else checks out..
its also weird that the main pump didnt run till i took it out and put it back in again. checked all the wires etc. all fine. the pump went, the car started going and then got real rough in the idle and back fires through the inlet when you stomp on it. after 5 mins it never went again....im still running backwards and forwards between here and the garage swigging on a bottle of jonnie walker red just to keep me saine!!!! if i had one wish in the world it would be for the damn thing to go!:D oh maybe a hoist.....

if i cant sort out whats wrong by tomorow u mite see my funeral notice or a busted golf for sale:mad:

[roccodingo]

System Pressure while running from dead cold valve closed (press guage) went straight upto 70psi and the car would cough and die whenever it got there. did the same thing 5-6 times always at just on 70psi.


Pressure is there but from what you say further down the flow rate isnt which = lean mixture to cause engine to stall.



turnned motor off and was holding between 45 to 48psi of residual pressure.(valve open) car cold...wouldnt run long enough to get warm..
manual says between 49-55psi when warm.

ran the pumps and it went down to 25psi and returned to 48 when the pumps were turned off.(valve open).


did it drop to 25 with the engine running , or just the fuel pumps??





so i then tryed fuel pump delivery rate.
in the manual it says 675cm3 at 12volts in 30 sec.
i aroundabout worked that out to be about 22oz in 30 sec.:confused:
in 30 sec it only pumped 11oz.


IMO the main pump is definately taking holidays from these figures :mad:

think yer best option is to fit a new main pump, Got mine from a mob called ASV here in Perth, bout 1/2 price of petroject quote ( both "bosch pumps")

dunno bout Mk2 tanks, but the MK1 has a screen filter ( strainer) in the tank that was pretty gunky after 26 years of use, took it out and gave it a damned good clean..Etka tells me there is one in the tank..;)

[Golf Loon]

Yeah main pump. As grant says engine is running lean as its not getting enuff fuel.

Your clean up of the pump made it go for a min, but it is rooted.

Slap a new one in, car should roar.

[86gti]

:-)..thanks guys, Ill try to get some prices for the pump tomorrow....
anyone here with a new pump they wanna sell ? :-)

[86gti]

pump coming tomorrow....fingers crossed it will go again!!!!!
$365.00 from petroject...may have found one cheaper, but i need it ASAP..
throw it in tomorow night and let you know how it goes..or if it goes :-S....
one other thing....i have been doing it, but is it a good idea to discon main pump and run the intank pump to fill the resivour a bit b4 starting...
doesnt say anything in the manuals about it, but i thourght it mite be a good idea.........

[h100vw]

I wouldn't worry too much about priming the main pump. It'll fill soon enough, maybe flick the ign on and off a couple of times to get the system to pressure before running the engine.

Gavin

[86gti]

ITS BACK!!!!! lol:D ...
well i dont want to get too excited...cause it did go for 2 days when i replaced the filter.
But it is going way better than it ever did before and isnt "poping" while idling either. Way more responsive!! one downfall it my dying clutch is now reminding me more often that is on the way out.i thourght it went well as it was b4....nearly hold up with my old Turbo Mr2 i recon, now....oh well next holidays ill put the clutch in, but for now i will enjoy going to work in some form of luxury..
really big thanks to all you guys for helping me out!
and huge thanks to Tim from automotive service solutions and of course Andrew....thanks again!

[Satanstoenail]

Good to hear you're back on the road dude. I hope it stays that way. I hate problems that take ages to diagnose... :mad:

[Golf Loon]

Hallalujah
Bless Blacke.
Bet it feels different now :) Glad you got it sorted