Restriction, what restriction! DPF, say no more

[Jaymz]

From the new VW mag:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/04/DPF-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/04/DPF2_0002-2.jpg

This shows why the bigger turbo on the GT can not spin to its full potential. Look at that nasty tin can hanging off the back of the turbo in the first pic

[m0rk]

They clog up nicely on standard cars over here, throwing it into limp mode (or worse)

Severely limits the tuning on them too. It won't be long until someone makes a DPF delete kit though

[Lams]

I quite like the concept of the DPT - for a small price to pay in performance you get a very clean car. I'd much rather a DPT TDI than a Prius for example :)

[Mischa]

I quite like the concept of the DPT - for a small price to pay in performance you get a very clean car. I'd much rather a DPT TDI than a Prius for example :)

lol man id prefer a pink bicycle to a prius. down with the dpf its a pos!

[Jaymz]

lol man id prefer a pink bicycle to a prius. down with the dpf its a pos!

Hilariousj:

[Logzy]

lol man id prefer a pink bicycle to a prius. down with the dpf its a pos!

You forgeot the streamers on the handle bars and the basket with the flowers on the front.

[Greg Roles]

I too like the idea of a "clean" performance car, but the catch 22 is I believe the DPF uses an injected catalyst to burn off the carbon, and if so, the catalyst I read about is a major carcinogen. "Apparently" there is a small tank of this nasty stuff, that needs toping up a few times in the car's lifetime.

IF that's the case with VW ( still looking into this ) it's ultra fine particles and soot, or carcinogens.

My inital thinking was a DPF off a bigger diesel, such as a transporter......

But if the carcinogen thing is true, I'll go with a deletion in a heartbeat! With the right state of tune, I'm sure the amount of soot could be FAR more controlled than most other diesels out there.

[gregozedobe]

Cogdoc, you might want to look into the catalyst info a bit more. If you are talking about the urea injection system that some manufacturers are using to pass the stricter US pollution regs, then I think you'll find this isn't being used by VW on their 2.0 and 2.5 diesels (possibly is on their bigger engines). I have read some stuff about BMW and MB using it. Try looking on the US TDI sites, I'm sure there is volumes of discussion about it there. Or if you really want to exercise your brain, have a look here http://ect.jmcatalysts.com/technologies-diesel.htm

I thought urea was fairly harmless stuff (I certainly hope so, as something closely related comes out of my pen!s every time i take a leak :) )

If you want to get all hot and bothered about exhaust carcinogens I think you'll find that the VW DPF system creates significantly less than the non-DPF VW diesel engines.

Tuning can certainly reduce the amount of soot produced, but it does this by leaning out the mixture, which unfortunately reduces the amount of power produced, particularly at lower revs (before the turbo is pumping big volumes of air into the intake) - the old "no free lunch" issue.

[OvaltoJetta]

I quite like the concept of the DPT - for a small price to pay in performance you get a very clean car. I'd much rather a DPT TDI than a Prius for example :)

....and I heard the batteries in the Prius costs about $7,000 to replace if someone needed to do it next week.

[gldgti]

the dpf doesnt use a catalyst and is a non-servicable item...

talking of clean cars.... the dpf catches soot particles...

the soot from diesel engines is not bad stuff, its basically dirt. if falls on to the ground, then washes away or gets picked up and sticks to your car when its wet. it doesnt contribute anything to smog as much as many other things such as sulphur. diesel soot particles are so big that they litterally fall out of the air...

the DPF is a sales technique. diesel soot is an easy target to pick on for emissions, because its visible. doesnt mean its bad.

i'm more worried about petrol engine exhaust myself....

has anyone noticed lately that behind each and every toyota kluger there is a foul smelling cloud of sulphur dioxide? next time you smell something aweful in traffic, i'll bet there is a toyota kluger infront of you.

all petrol 4wd's should be BANNED! NO, BLOWN UP!!!

[Greg Roles]

Hmmm, thanks for the replies. Like I said, I had only heard about catalysts, and the story was from the UK and generic to DPF diesels, so yeah it was only a guess that VW was doing this.

http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/particulate-filter.php

I thought Ultra fine particles from diesels were a problem, in that they basically stuck around in the air and can end up in your lungs causing problems. Hey, I realise petrol cars cause plenty of problems, and don't even get me started about 4WD's carring one school child.:mad:

[Mischa]

i cant wait for a company to bring out a complete all-in-one dpf delete. once that happens ill go chip my car the next day :)

[Jaymz]

i cant wait for a company to bring out a complete all-in-one dpf delete. once that happens ill go chip my car the next day :)

Better go get your car remapped Mischa, click here to lighten your wallet by thousands:) (http://www.millteksport.com/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=264)

These guys make all the exhausts for the race series.
Am waiting for a quote to come back now. Be awhile before i go ahead and do something like this, but it would be nice to know how much.
It is good that they make it in sections as the cost to build a downpipe locally would cost plenty. Could always organise a group buy for the downpipe and connecting pipe somewhere in the future and have a local guy make up the rest.
Would be inexpensive to have someone local make the rest up as its straight all the way up to the rear muffler which goes into a dogs leg and then has a muffler that would give a Mack truck a hard on!

[Mischa]

id imagine at least 5k for the full exhaust. although possibly a group buy on just a downpipe sounds like a great idea.

[Greg Roles]

Jamie is on the ball as per usual. The pipe looks great to me from the DPF back, nice size and mandrel bent. Just ditch that last giant muffler and see how the middle one copes. I've read the diesel sounds quite acceptable with little to no mufflers, but I've yet to hear a horny diesel so I figure flow is more important than noise. The DPF is indeed the killer, and I'm sure we'll see a delete kit in the next year or so.

[orsegtsport]

the dpf doesnt use a catalyst and is a non-servicable item...

talking of clean cars.... the dpf catches soot particles...

the soot from diesel engines is not bad stuff, its basically dirt. if falls on to the ground, then washes away or gets picked up and sticks to your car when its wet. it doesnt contribute anything to smog as much as many other things such as sulphur. diesel soot particles are so big that they litterally fall out of the air...

the DPF is a sales technique. diesel soot is an easy target to pick on for emissions, because its visible. doesnt mean its bad.

i'm more worried about petrol engine exhaust myself....

has anyone noticed lately that behind each and every toyota kluger there is a foul smelling cloud of sulphur dioxide? next time you smell something aweful in traffic, i'll bet there is a toyota kluger infront of you.

all petrol 4wd's should be BANNED! NO, BLOWN UP!!!

Where did this information come from? My understating is that most DPF systems employ a catalyst component that oxidizes the particulate matter, and that the more efficient systems are capable of reducing PM by about 90%. In addition, some DPF’s can remove almost 90% of Hydrocarbons and Carbon Monoxide, which, is a very nasty pollutant (more abundant in petrol exhaust gases), that binds to the blood stream in place of where oxygen normally would, and can have nasty implications.

Particulates are not simply harmless soot that will fall to the ground either. They are a major component of airborne pollution, and several studies have concluded that there is a very high probability that they are both carcinogenic and cause respiratory problems. Diesels also produce more Nitrogen Oxides than petrol engines, but some studies suggest that this improves over the life of the engine to the point where diesels actually produce less NOx than their petrol counterparts.

Frankly, I’m surprised at all the negativity people seem to be displaying towards this great piece of technology. For me, the DPF was the reason I ultimately bought the car. I was after a car with good performance and relatively low CO2 emissions, but didn’t want to be belching out a heap of other nasties, so Diesels were initially off my shopping list. However, when I heard that the GT Sport was fitted with a DPF all that changed. Yes, I’m a tree hugger, and I don’t expect that the DPF will be a significant selling point for everyone, but considerably reducing pollution of any kind has to be a good thing, surely?

As Mishca has discovered, they are still yet to be perfected, but I think they are a fantastic development, and people should think long and hard about removing them just to gain a few extra kw’s.

Totally agree about all the bloody 4WD's used to pick up the kiddies from school though! :mad:

[Frufru]

the dpf doesnt use a catalyst and is a non-servicable item...

Some engines do use additives for DPF regeneration (e.g. older 2.0TDi from VW used to use it for some types of cars) - for example you have a little reservoir under bonnet which may need to be refilled every 100000 km. This is used for active regeneration as it is added to fuel to increase temperature of exhaust gases.

Catalyst in DPF is something different, it is used in almost all DPF from VW now. Not 100% sure what exact composition it is, but catalytic reactions usually do not use much catalyst anyway (maybe there is enough catalyst in DPF to last for engine lifespan?). DPF is servicable item - it may need to be unblocked in some instances.

[QUOTE=gldgti;148606]
the soot from diesel engines is not bad stuff, its basically dirt.
[QUOTE=gldgti;148606]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/mar/11/medicalresearch.pollution

[gregozedobe]

DPF is servicable item - it may need to be unblocked in some instances.

I think the dealers can do a forced burn-off of the soot in the DPF (IIRC they call it "regeneration"). If that doesn't work they have to replace it. Maybe in time non-dealers may figure out a way to clean them out for re-use.

All I know is I'm glad I haven't had any problems with the DPF on my 2.5 TDI (probably because I do nearly all highway driving in it)

[Greg Roles]

...
Frankly, I’m surprised at all the negativity people seem to be displaying towards this great piece of technology. For me, the DPF was the reason I ultimately bought the car. I was after a car with good performance and relatively low CO2 emissions, but didn’t want to be belching out a heap of other nasties, so Diesels were initially off my shopping list. However, when I heard that the GT Sport was fitted with a DPF all that changed. Yes, I’m a tree hugger, and I don’t expect that the DPF will be a significant selling point for everyone, but considerably reducing pollution of any kind has to be a good thing, surely?




I hear you my friend, and I too am proud to have a peppy car that is a lot more environmentally conscious than most. Thing is if a few car nuts on here decide to remove it, I hardly think it'll bring the world to it's knees. Overall the simple fact that this technology will increase in coming years for the masses is a good thing. I hope China gets into it!

If you are indeed worried about your impact, become a veggo, for the environmental impact of being a typical meat eater makes any level of car emission look just silly.

[orsegtsport]

Yes it’s true, a few people removing their DPF’s will make absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn’t make it right though. I guess I would argue that we all need to do our bit, because collectively we can have an impact. You are right about the vegetarian thing though, and becoming a vego can cut your ecological footprint in half. I’ve considered it, but all my favourite meals have meat in them – I blame my parents for that!

I had plans to dramatically reduce my footprint, and I sold my house last year so I could build an Eco home, but then the wife got pregnant and the cost of living in Perth went through the roof and now I can’t afford to do it. Ah well, I’ll keep playing lotto I guess….

Now, back on topic…..leave those DPF’s on there you naughty people! j:

[gldgti]

Jamie is on the ball as per usual. The pipe looks great to me from the DPF back, nice size and mandrel bent. Just ditch that last giant muffler and see how the middle one copes. I've read the diesel sounds quite acceptable with little to no mufflers, but I've yet to hear a horny diesel so I figure flow is more important than noise. The DPF is indeed the killer, and I'm sure we'll see a delete kit in the next year or so.

mmm horny diesel.... i looove that sound...

from 7.6l v8 turbo with twin straight pipes that actually crackled, to my old gld with 2.25" extractors that droned on and on but really barked, a nice big exhaust is always horny on a diesel, hehehehe... (yup i'm warped)

dont waste your money on stainless steel polished expensive brand named rubbish for your diesel either. its a load of C R A P. once you put a turbo on a diesel, the rest is either classed as fire hazard reduction, noise reduction or decoration.

if your into decoration... well i feel for your wallet. but the best performance exhaust for a diesel turbo (post turbo) is NO exhaust. thats the fact...

[Greg Roles]

Yeah, I hear you.

No exhaust is optimal for any turbo, and don't worry, the stock exhaust in the MK5 GT looks great, nice and fat with mandrel bends. I will at least swap out the muff's for better flow, but that's probably it.

The DPF, well we'll see. Don't want orse on my case! Damn hippies.
Good for you in wanting an environmentally friendly home, is my goal as well.

For the record, I've been veggo my entire life, was raised by damn hippies!
So I think I'm ahead in the impact game:D:

[dammfool]

When i have my chip on my polo turned to the max setting and i give it a boot full, it would leave a semi to shame,with all the soot it produces.The cars behind me would be getting a lung full.I have to wash the back of my car once a week cause of all the soot?

[motk]

mmm horny diesel.... i looove that sound...

from 7.6l v8 turbo with twin straight pipes that actually crackled, to my old gld with 2.25" extractors that droned on and on but really barked, a nice big exhaust is always horny on a diesel, hehehehe... (yup i'm warped).

Pah! Try listening unmoved to the crackle of an English Electric 12-CSVT, or the bark of an ALCO 251C, or the throaty chant of an EMD 645, or even the steam-ship thud of a GE 7FDL-16!

... yeah, I'll stop now :)

[gregozedobe]

When i have my chip on my polo turned to the max setting and i give it a boot full, it would leave a semi to shame,with all the soot it produces.The cars behind me would be getting a lung full.I have to wash the back of my car once a week cause of all the soot?

Two things that worry me about this post are:

1 You seem proud that your small car can produce a huge amount of visible soot. Please consider other road users and turn your chip down to the point where it runs efficiently (and/or drive more thoughtfully thus enjoying even better economy and saving on car washes too :) ).

2 You seem to be unaware of what a negative effect you are having on the attitudes of people towards diesels.

Do you actually want the majority of people to dislike diesels so much that politicians either ban diesel cars altogether, or put such stringent pollution controls on them that most (including yours) are put off the road ? It would be very easy to instruct the police to automatically defect any car that is producing "excessive visible particulates".

Sorry to seem so negative, but in this case I just had to say what is on my mind. :???:

[gregozedobe]

Pah! Try listening unmoved to the crackle of an English Electric 12-CSVT, or the bark of an ALCO 251C, or the throaty chant of an EMD 645, or even the steam-ship thud of a GE 7FDL-16!

... yeah, I'll stop now :)

I wonder how many people reading this even know what engines you are talking about ? I'll bet not very many (but happy to be proven wrong) j:

[Spoddy]

I wonder how many people reading this even know what engines you are talking about ? I'll bet not very many (but happy to be proven wrong) j:

you are not wrong.... :confused:

[99gti]

*Insert game show buzzer*

For $50 I'm going to say train engines?

[gregozedobe]

*Insert game show buzzer*

For $50 I'm going to say train engines?

To collect your $50 from MOTK you will have to display a lot more knowledge about each specific engine than that (and no cheating by looking up google - I said "know", not "able to look up"). j:

[dammfool]

After reading your response ill make sure that when i go to canberra next that my chip is set to 10 and ill flog the **** out of my small car so it produces the maximum amount of soot you clown
Two things that worry me about this post are:

1 You seem proud that your small car can produce a huge amount of visible soot. Please consider other road users and turn your chip down to the point where it runs efficiently (and/or drive more thoughtfully thus enjoying even better economy and saving on car washes too :) ).

2 You seem to be unaware of what a negative effect you are having on the attitudes of people towards diesels.

Do you actually want the majority of people to dislike diesels so much that politicians either ban diesel cars altogether, or put such stringent pollution controls on them that most (including yours) are put off the road ? It would be very easy to instruct the police to automatically defect any car that is producing "excessive visible particulates".

Sorry to seem so negative, but in this case I just had to say what is on my mind. :???:

[Greg Roles]

The interesting thing is the aptness of user names.

My vote is truck engines, which to be correct would emit pollution many thousand times ANY polo to be fair.

[motk]

To collect your $50 from MOTK you will have to display a lot more knowledge about each specific engine than that (and no cheating by looking up google - I said "know", not "able to look up"). j:

Heh. Not on topic, but one of my favorite memories is taking the train to Canberra behind a 422, listening to 645 chanting away at 80MPH. :)

[aprr32]

Another good reason for the DPF, who wants to cruise in your Eos with top down and get covered in soot.(not my wife)I'll bet that was the reason for DPF not Euro tail pipe emissions!

[gldgti]

Another good reason for the DPF, who wants to cruise in your Eos with top down and get covered in soot.(not my wife)I'll bet that was the reason for DPF not Euro tail pipe emissions!

good point!

[gregozedobe]

After reading your response ill make sure that when i go to canberra next that my chip is set to 10 and ill flog the **** out of my small car so it produces the maximum amount of soot you clown

Well, that will really show me what's what, won't it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(and your words prove my point most eloquently, too j: )

[Transporter]

After reading your response ill make sure that when i go to canberra next that my chip is set to 10 and ill flog the **** out of my small car so it produces the maximum amount of soot you clown

I don't know who is a clown here? A small car with the clouds of a rich black smoke behind it, it sounds very clowny to me.

[motk]

I don't know who is a clown here? A small car with the clouds of a rich black smoke behind it, it sounds very clowny to me.

THIS.

Likewise, Punk Kids [tm] on BMX bikes being XTREME always remind me of clowns on teeny bicycles. I have a habit of whistling the Ringling Circus Theme when I see them, I'm going to get decked one dayj:

[dammfool]

nobodys perfect,but whats the point in getting a chip and not having it at the higher settings.Thats what its for.If it produces more soot so what.It either going to add to global warming or not depending on what side of the fence u sit on.Why dont u get all righteous on all the semis that produce more soot than my little polo ever would.Maybe i should change my name to sooty.
Well, that will really show me what's what, won't it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(and your words prove my point most eloquently, too j: )

[gldgti]

easy guys, lets all play nicely thanks, we're all here to learn and share, not argue and fight. thanks.

now, if anyone is changing their name to sooty, its ME!

[Jaymz]

easy guys, lets all play nicely thanks, we're all here to learn and share, not argue and fight. thanks.


Good call. Settle Gretal:)

[Greg Roles]

Hey J-man, what's your latest?? You up to anything??

[Jaymz]

Hey J-man, what's your latest?? You up to anything??

Unfortunately no. I would like to say yes but haven't had time. That Maf-less idea you have may be a catchy thing though.
Stalled the tractor again in the driveway at work. I'm really all for increasing the flow down low, massive compression does have a downside in the manual:)