Big news for GT TDI owners!

[orsegtsport]

I just received an email from Superchips announcing that they have just released a Bluefin ecu programmer for the GT TDI. For those who don't know, the advantage of Bluefin is that the ecu tune can be removed at any time, and the car returned to the stock ecu calibration, which is a big advantage at servicing time, or for warranty claims.

The Bluefin increases power by 27 bhp and 77Nm, but these figures are obviously for the manual version. I'm going to send an email and ask if they have a tune for the DSG version with less torque.

[Jaymz]

I just received an email from Superchips announcing that they have just released a Bluefin ecu programmer for the GT TDI. For those who don't know, the advantage of Bluefin is that the ecu tune can be removed at any time, and the car returned to the stock ecu calibration, which is a big advantage at servicing time, or for warranty claims.

The Bluefin increases power by 27 bhp and 77Nm, but these figures are obviously for the manual version. I'm going to send an email and ask if they have a tune for the DSG version with less torque.

Thats great. They said they we're working on it when i did mine. Very good stuff.
Superchips actually have several different maps for our cars. Tell them exactly what you want i.e max power, max torque, best fuel economy and so on.
Click here and put car details in (http://www.superchips.co.nz/models.php)
Cheers,
Jamie

[Logzy]

I just received an email from Superchips announcing that they have just released a Bluefin ecu programmer for the GT TDI. For those who don't know, the advantage of Bluefin is that the ecu tune can be removed at any time, and the car returned to the stock ecu calibration, which is a big advantage at servicing time, or for warranty claims.

The Bluefin increases power by 27 bhp and 77Nm, but these figures are obviously for the manual version. I'm going to send an email and ask if they have a tune for the DSG version with less torque.

I emailed them 3 days ago asking this exact question and asking to see a graph on the torque curve.
I would expect that it will be alot flatter as the tourque has to be limited to around 380NM with the DSG.
With some good programming, if they can achieve a peak of 420nm on a manual then they should be able to achieve 380nm on alot wider rev range with the dsg.
I am awaiting their reply.

[dumbmonkey]

I have had a few emails back and forth with the Audvolks guys in Clayton regarding a revo ECU tune, here are a few snippets:

"I am assuming that your Golf GT TDI is the 2.0L Diesel with 125Kw and
350Nm?

If so below are some information for this car.

Revo ECU program for the TDI is $1499 inc GST.

The gains you are looking at after the chip is approx. 176Kw and 392Nm.

This program also has the ability of being switched from performance
program back to stock program with the Select Switching device.

For the diesel engines we are not able to offer a trial program,
however, we do have a 30 day satisfaction gaurantee.

If for what ever reason you are not happy with the program, we will
refund the full price of the program and restore your car back to standard."


And regarding DSG:

"As always we direct all user concerns regarding the REVO product to the experts at Head Office if we are unable to answer the question ourselves.

You are not the 1st person to ask the question about DSG and different program for DSG cars.

I have cut and paste the response from REVO Head Office when I first starting dealing with DSG gearbox cars.

Email from REVO START ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Raymond,

We get asked similar questions a fair amount. Interestingly enough I was out in a 3.2 turbo DSG TT last week, that was running well over 400bhp and 400ftlb on the standard DSG transmission. There’s an awful amount of propaganda out there, but we’ve never had issues with DSG. They do tend to make slightly less power though due to increased loses, but no issues or requirements for specific DSG maps. I know certain companies claim to have separate maps for manual vs dsg but you normally find they don’t, or when they do it’s because their tuning isn’t particularly ‘polished’ and suited to both transmission types!

Best Regards

Kev Hall

Revo Developments Limited
Email from REVO END -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Locally in Australia, I have personally flashed quite a number of DSG cars ranging from Petrol Golf GTI, Petrol A3, Diesel Golf, Petrol Jetta all with DSG gearboxes.

So far all customers have been fine with their car and have not reported any issues, infact one of the 1st DSG car to get flashed is almost coming up to 2 years.

I hope this helps you make your decision. No matter what you choose, make sure you are happy with your choice."

So it seems that a flatter torque is achievable, though their power figure sounds too good to be true 176Kw is about 240hp right?

Their web site just lumps the GT in with the standard TDI and shows some below average figures, guessing this might be the older GT?

[Logzy]

Personally i would like to go with the Bluefin.
The only reason being is that you can reflash your original tune back to the ecu and it does not show up on the ecu as a flash or flash attempt which the ecu can log.

[dumbmonkey]

Personally i would like to go with the Bluefin.
The only reason being is that you can reflash your original tune back to the ecu and it does not show up on the ecu as a flash or flash attempt which the ecu can log.

The REVO software also works with a device to switch the software back to stock, whether or not this appears in the flash log I dont know.

Also I beleive the switching device from REVO cost an extra $300-$400, making it a fairly expensive option.

[gregozedobe]

The REVO software also works with a device to switch the software back to stock, whether or not this appears in the flash log I dont know.

AFAIK Bluefin is the only one that reprograms your ECU back to an exact "stock" setting, I believe all the others (including the free test trials options) revert to the chip programmers approximation of stock (ie it is different to VW stock). Bluefin actually records your stock VW program as it was before the flash, so that is how it can revert back to exactly how it was before it was remapped.

But if you are that worried about a dealer finding out your ECU has been flashed, maybe you should just play it safe and stay stock (or buy an Audi S3 :) )

[orsegtsport]

[I]"I am assuming that your Golf GT TDI is the 2.0L Diesel with 125Kw and
350Nm?

If so below are some information for this car.

Revo ECU program for the TDI is $1499 inc GST.

The gains you are looking at after the chip is approx. 176Kw and 392Nm.



176 kw? :o:o:o

No way! Clearly they've made a mistake here. Almost every tuning company out there gets the the GT TDI to 143 kw, and there seems to be very little variation. What makes me more convinced that it's an error is the fact that they are claiming unbelievable power figures, but very poor torque gains. Those figures sounds like the numbers for a flashed Gti to me.

Also, I've had a reply regarding the DSG, and I've been assured that this map is suitable for the DSG, and that Superchips ensure that all their products are produced to operate well within tolerance levels. Hmmm more research required me thinks......

That's great new if it's true, as it means I can have 430Nm like the manual boys! :D

[Logzy]

AFAIK Bluefin is the only one that reprograms your ECU back to an exact "stock" setting, I believe all the others (including the free test trials options) revert to the chip programmers approximation of stock (ie it is different to VW stock). Bluefin actually records your stock VW program as it was before the flash, so that is how it can revert back to exactly how it was before it was remapped

Exactly, this is why i will only go with bluefin whilst under warranty.
Just to be safe.
After warranty though there may be the deletion of the DPF and a completley different exhaust.
Go go gadget smoke screen. :D

[Greg Roles]

schweeeeet!:D

[dumbmonkey]

176 kw? :o:o:o

No way! Clearly they've made a mistake here. Almost every tuning company out there gets the the GT TDI to 143 kw, and there seems to be very little variation. What makes me more convinced that it's an error is the fact that they are claiming unbelievable power figures, but very poor torque gains. Those figures sounds like the numbers for a flashed Gti to me.

Also, I've had a reply regarding the DSG, and I've been assured that this map is suitable for the DSG, and that Superchips ensure that all their products are produced to operate well within tolerance levels. Hmmm more research required me thinks......

That's great new if it's true, as it means I can have 430Nm like the manual boys! :D

Im going to ask for a confirmation because it sounds ridiculous, might be model confusion or a typo, nfi, but will post the response I get.

[Jaymz]

Revo ECU program for the TDI is $1499 inc GST.

The gains you are looking at after the chip is approx. 176Kw and 392Nm.

I have done a fair share of inquiry on tdiclub and most guys confirm that the standard turbo & injectors on the GT will in fact support 240HP.

However, this is not possible with the DPF in place due to its restriction.

I also think that they have mistaken GTI figures.

[orsegtsport]

I don't think that they are the Gti figures now. I've had a look at the numbers for the Gti, and while the power seems about right, the Gti seems to 'chip' to only about 340Nm. It will be interesting to find out where they got those numbers from.

I'll have to contact them to confirm postage costs, but given the current exchange rate, and the fact that you wouldn't be paying the 17.5% VAT, I reckon you could get the Bluefin for just over $1000 landed, making it the cheapest and imo, the most practical tuning solution available for our cars. If it is just over $1000, then we'd need to politely request that they fudge the figures a little (invoice us for less than a grand) to keep Australian Customs off our case. ;)

[Mister_duck]

You may get 176kw with the revo for the GT Tdi,
I've got the revo on my 2.0 litre 103kw Tdi, with the reflash on my car, I got roughly 30kw more, so I would guess that it would be the same for the newer engines, I'm more likey to be wrong then right though. If the gains are correct though, expect the increase to be roughly 155-160kw.
On my car now at the wheel, I have 120kw and 368nm.

Also Giac are developing a reflash for the Tdi as well now

[Mischa]

ok ok ok ok ok someone has to confirm this 176kw figure!!

ducky is right though, on the 103 tdi, revo gives about 140kw whereas all other companies give 125kw. so theres a slim possibility that its correct... and if it is correct im gonna go mega-flaming anyone with a gti bahahahaha

[Timbo]

Here's the news release and data sheets from the REVO site (http://www.revotechnik.com/aboutRevo/news/TDi170.aspx)

[dumbmonkey]

ok ok ok ok ok someone has to confirm this 176kw figure!!

ducky is right though, on the 103 tdi, revo gives about 140kw whereas all other companies give 125kw. so theres a slim possibility that its correct... and if it is correct im gonna go mega-flaming anyone with a gti bahahahaha

Still waiting on the distributor to get back to me. As soon as I get a response I will post :)

[gregozedobe]

Here's the news release and data sheets from the REVO site (http://www.revotechnik.com/aboutRevo/news/TDi170.aspx)

I like how they inflated the "expected gains" by basing the increase on the manufacturers stated output, not what the cars actually delivered before and after the tune :n:. So honest dyno tests can serve a useful purpose sometimes ;)

Based on their relatively small actual power gains the car probably won't accelarate all that much faster after the reflash, but the extra torque will be nice.

TBH I think VW have got the wick turned up pretty high on the 2.0 125Kw TDI motor as standard (it has pretty good outputs for a road going 2.0 diesel, plus the DPF probably complicates things too), so it isn't surprising that the tuners aren't getting huge gains so far.

No sign of the mythical 176Kw output though :(

[SoVeReIgN]

Someone go have their GT dynoed, then get it chipped and dyno it again - Not difficult.. With 176kw at the fly you'd expect atleast ~135kw at the wheels.

[dumbmonkey]

Someone go have their GT dynoed, then get it chipped and dyno it again - Not difficult.. With 176kw at the fly you'd expect atleast ~135kw at the wheels.

Exactly what I intend to do, just waiting until after my first scheduled service. So I have a few weeks to decide what chip option to try first ;)

[SoVeReIgN]

Exactly what I intend to do, just waiting until after my first scheduled service. So I have a few weeks to decide what chip option to try first ;)

Go the revo! And have it removed within 30days for your money back if it doesnt make the sort of power they suggest.

[Logzy]

I'll repeat myself here.
Be aware of warranty. The Bluefin is the only one that I'm aware of that allows you to revert back to the proper VW tune with no trace of a flash or flash attempt being performed. The ECU logs this.

Even the REVO, getting it removed after 30 days i would question whether it goes back to the original VW tune showing no signs of a flash or does it go back to REVOS version of the factory tune.

The last thing you want to do is void your warranty.

I personally wont trust any tune no matter what there figures are other than the Bluefin because it can be removed without a trace.

[Mischa]

I'll repeat myself here.
Be aware of warranty. The Bluefin is the only one that I'm aware of that allows you to revert back to the proper VW tune with no trace of a flash or flash attempt being performed. The ECU logs this.

Even the REVO, getting it removed after 30 days i would question whether it goes back to the original VW tune showing no signs of a flash or does it go back to REVOS version of the factory tune.

The last thing you want to do is void your warranty.

I personally wont trust any tune no matter what there figures are other than the Bluefin because it can be removed without a trace.

if anything goes wrong with something to do with what the ecu controls, they will ALL kill your warranty as the ecu logs much much much much more than just how many flashes that hae been performed.

[Greg Roles]

Someone go have their GT dynoed, then get it chipped and dyno it again - Not difficult.. With 176kw at the fly you'd expect atleast ~135kw at the wheels.

My stock TDI goes on the dyno this Saturday, right after Jaymz superchipped one. We are both at about 3000kms.

[dumbmonkey]

My stock TDI goes on the dyno this Saturday, right after Jaymz superchipped one. We are both at about 3000kms.

Awesome, it will be good to see some figures. Can anyone suggest a dyno join in melbourne?

[Greg Roles]

if anything goes wrong with something to do with what the ecu controls, they will ALL kill your warranty as the ecu logs much much much much more than just how many flashes that hae been performed.

Too true, but having worked in, and still having a brother in the motor industry, most of the time they don't go to this level of investigation unless it's a really huge $ issue. I spent some time with the grease monkeys at my selling dealer yesterday during my 1500k checkup, and they confirmed what I already thought, VW are one of the more leniant manufacturers out there at this stage. It's a grey area for sure, but they told me of GTI guys with chips and big exhausts getting specific motor parts under warranty without issue.

No promises, but it seems if you are reasonable, they are too. Can't expect to show up with a cooked turbo, blown CV's and a melted intercooler and claim no powerups.

[dumbmonkey]

Still no word back from the Revo guys. But I was thinking about their numbers this morning and decided to do the maths. To get 176kw from 392Nm:

30 x 176000 / (392 x pi) = RPM

4287 = RPM

We know that my maths is bogus because the peak kw point is usually higher up in the rev range than the peak in the torque curve (point where torque hits the 45 in its downward slope).

So actual the torque should peak @ around 85% of the max kw and the kw peak happens @ around the 75 - 80% of the max torque. So assuming peaks at 85% and 77.5% this gives:

30 x 149600 / (392 x pi) = Peak Torque RPM

392Nm @ 3644RPM

30 x 176000 / (303.8 x pi) = Peak Power RPM

176kw @ 5532RPM

Compared to the peaks @ http://www.revotechnik.com/aboutRevo/news/TDi170.aspx

441Nm @ 2910RPM & 157kw @ 4380RPM

Its basically a shift of the curve of +943RPM, that's a huge difference.

And its pretty much impossible to rev my car to 5500...

Anyway I make quite a few assumptions, and probably a mistake here and there, critiques of my workings are also welcome.

[Jaymz]

I tried to spin mine to 5000 on a slight downhill last weekend and failed. I dont believe it has anything after 4500.
I don't think this has all that much to do with the tuning either, i really think the exhaust has to much restriction.

I am hoping they will let me put the lambda up the pipe so the dyno can tell the real story.

[Mischa]

guys have you read the press release about it... its 157kw lol STOP SPEULATING!


Here's the news release and data sheets from the REVO site (http://www.revotechnik.com/aboutRevo/news/TDi170.aspx)


Following months in development Revo is pleased to announce that new switchable performance software is now available for the 2.0L TDi 170. Improving the performance of this powerful diesel engine has presented many challenges for the Revo tuners to overcome throughout the project, but we’ve delivered! We are confident that you will be excited with the result, a very smooth & responsive drive with improved power and torque right across the rev range.

Performance figures are showing gains of +40-45bhp (+29-33Kw) and +60-70lbft (+81-95Nm) over the quoted OE numbers delivering 214bhp (157Kw) and 325lbft (441Nm). You’ll notice on our performance graphs that the standard OE performance on the cars we worked with was above their quoted figures, so our gains on these cars were +20-25bhp (+15-18Kw) and +35-40lbft (+47-54Nm). This new performance software is fully switchable between performance and stock modes using our select serial port switch.

The performance software for the VW Passat, the Audi A4, and the SEAT Altea and Leon are available now. The VW Golf, Touran, Skoda Octavia and Audi A3 are on their way, so get in touch with your local Revo dealer today!

[Jaymz]

I read that too. Where did 176 come from?

[Greg Roles]

I tried to spin mine to 5000 on a slight downhill last weekend and failed. I dont believe it has anything after 4500.
I don't think this has all that much to do with the tuning either, i really think the exhaust has to much restriction.

I am hoping they will let me put the lambda up the pipe so the dyno can tell the real story.

Dude, mine feels unhappy from high 3000 rpm on. I too have tried a few 5000rpm efforts, but it sure isn't happy about it. Just feels like over-rev, simply making noise...

Amazing stock figures quoted on the revo site though, today will be interesting!

[PaulM]

Hi - lurker here - must thank you for all your excellent info. This forum actually convinced me to go with a nice brand spanking new GT Sport 2.0TDI DSG White with the works 'n jerks. I await it's delivery.

I am just wondering how the dyno test went Greg?

[Greg Roles]

If you check the Brisbane dyno thread, which will be a few pages back in the meets section, there's a full writeup. Thread is kinda messy though!
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=14510&page=4
At the wheels, stock as a rock, 113 odd KW and 357 NM. If you allow the same difference to 125kw at the engine, the GT TDI is putting out over 380NM at the engine. That's obviously on that dyno on that day, but the thread shows all the comparisons. The torque is on the dyno graph alongside Jaymz car somewhere on that thread.

Fun car, you'll enjoy it!

[PaulM]

Cheers Greg!