Oil in the expansion tank

[armdlo]

Happened today driving along,:("message" "alarm", "stop", "check coolant level",
stopped the T5 Transporter 68k km, checked the expansion tank, still halffull, but noticed a bit of an oil slick on the coolant, but no water in the oil,Can anyone tell me if it is bad news ie a stuffed head gasket or something "cheaper"
No loss of coolant but the onboard controller keeps screaming
Armdlo

[Transporter]

Hi,
It could be a water pump. It seems to be common fault in R5 engine. Especialy the earlier, up to 2005.

[gregozedobe]

Can anyone tell me if it is bad news ie a stuffed head gasket or something "cheaper"

You do realize that those messages really do mean STOP, switch your engine off and don't drive another mm don't you ?

It is your van's way of telling you something catastrophic may be about to happen to your engine.

My money is on an internal leak in the oil cooler allowing oil to force its way into the coolant system :( At least that's what happened to my late Oct 2006 build R5. My coolant bottle was all black inside from the engine oil.

Another possible cause could be failed seals in the water(coolant) pump, but this usually ends up letting coolant into the oil.

I don't know whether it is "cheaper" or not, as VW picked up the tab (under warranty), but given the time spent and the amount of coolant expended on mine I think it would have been cheaper to replace half the engine.

The VWA recommended procedure to remove all the oil from the coolant is very, very ineffective ! Mine has been back 4 times, and still has some in it after the 4th "fix".

It seems VW's rules say to drain the coolant, flush it once or twice (with new coolant), then drive it for 20 minutes. This just doesn't get all the oil out. I seemed to need to drive it for at least an hour of vigorous highway driving to even start to move some of the oil. After nearly 1,000Km of wasted driving I did seem to have gotten most of it out of the engine.

I was told that mine had "the most oil they had ever seen in the engine's coolant". The most worrying thing about that statement is that it implies my dealer alone has seen enough T5s with oil in the coolant to have a good idea of what should be an "average" amount of oil in the coolant !!!!

There didn't seem to be any coolant in the engine oil, but I had the oil changed anyway, just to be on the safe side.

I've just returned from a quickish drive from Canberra to Adelaide and return, and there doesn't seem to be any extra oil in the coolant, so it might be safe to get the "final" flush/clean done now.

At least this trip my van did every last Km on its own wheels (the last two interstate trips I tried it got taken back to the dealer on a flat-top truck because of the oil in the coolant !).

On a happier note, the extra flogging I gave it (to build up heat and help get rid of the oil in the coolant) seems to have made it run a bit smoother and accelerate quicker too (now got 20,000Km up in 13 months, mainly highway work). :)

[Transporter]

You do realize that those messages really do mean STOP, switch your engine off and don't drive another mm don't you ?

It is your van's way of telling you something catastrophic may be about to happen to your engine.

My money is on an internal leak in the oil cooler allowing oil to force its way into the coolant system :( At least that's what happened to my late Oct 2007 build R5. My coolant bottle was all black inside from the engine oil.

Another possible cause could be failed seals in the water(coolant) pump, but this usually ends up letting coolant into the oil.

I don't know whether it is "cheaper" or not, as VW picked up the tab (under warranty), but given the time spent and the amount of coolant expended on mine I think it would have been cheaper to replace half the engine.

The VWA recommended procedure to remove all the oil from the coolant is very, very ineffective ! Mine has been back 4 times, and still has some in it after the 4th "fix".

It seems VW's rules say to drain the coolant, flush it once or twice (with new coolant), then drive it for 20 minutes. This just doesn't get all the oil out. I seemed to need to drive it for at least an hour of vigorous highway driving to even start to move some of the oil. After nearly 1,000Km of wasted driving I did seem to have gotten most of it out of the engine.

I was told that mine had "the most oil they had ever seen in the engine's coolant". The most worrying thing about that statement is that it implies my dealer alone has seen enough T5s with oil in the coolant to have a good idea of what should be an "average" amount of oil in the coolant !!!!

There didn't seem to be any coolant in the engine oil, but I had the oil changed anyway, just to be on the safe side.

I've just returned from a quickish drive from Canberra to Adelaide and return, and there doesn't seem to be any extra oil in the coolant, so it might be safe to get the "final" flush/clean done now.

At least this trip my van did every last Km on its own wheels (the last two interstate trips I tried it got taken back to the dealer on a flat-top truck because of the oil in the coolant !).

On a happier note, the extra flogging I gave it (to build up heat and help get rid of the oil in the coolant) seems to have made it run a bit smoother and accelerate quicker too (now got 20,000Km up in 13 months, mainly highway work). :)


Hi, Gregozedobe

How many Transporters did you have in past.
Driving T5 myself I also had a couple of problems with mine and your write up makes me thinking, that I should keep my 2005 model as long as practical and buy T6 in the third year of production, no sooner or better still replace it with Toyota van, if T6 reliability would be the same as T5.

I hope you have no more problems with yours.

Cheers

[gregozedobe]

Hi, Gregozedobe

How many Transporters did you have in past.

I hope you have no more problems with yours.

This is my first Transporter. I've had a few minor problems prior to this (eg faulty door locking actuators), but this was the first time it "failed to proceed". I also hope that I have no more major dramas with it. I intend to buy the VWA extended warranty so I am covered for 5 years.

As far as buying a new T6, I think you are on the right track to let VW make them for a few years before you buy one. It also depends on how many changes they make over the T5, and how well they test them before releasing it to the market. Based on the many problems early T5s had, I think it is safer to assume they don't do a particularly thorough pre-release testing program anymore. So if there are lots of significant changes over the T5 mechanicals and electrics, you could expect more problems.

I would suggest you test drive a HiAce in your chosen environment before deciding whether to buy one. The T5 is so superior for highway cruising (my main use) that I simply could not bring myself to buy one, despite it being a lot cheaper (and almost certainly more reliable).

I do love driving my T5 :)

Also the T6 post by Mogster in this thread may be of interest to you:
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24020&PN=1&TPN=3

[Transporter]

This is my first Transporter. I've had a few minor problems prior to this (eg faulty door locking actuators), but this was the first time it "failed to proceed". I also hope that I have no more major dramas with it. I intend to buy the VWA extended warranty so I am covered for 5 years.

As far as buying a new T6, I think you are on the right track to let VW make them for a few years before you buy one. It also depends on how many changes they make over the T5, and how well they test them before releasing it to the market. Based on the many problems early T5s had, I think it is safer to assume they don't do a particularly thorough pre-release testing program anymore. So if there are lots of significant changes over the T5 mechanicals and electrics, you could expect more problems.

I would suggest you test drive a HiAce in your chosen environment before deciding whether to buy one. The T5 is so superior for highway cruising (my main use) that I simply could not bring myself to buy one, despite it being a lot cheaper (and almost certainly more reliable).

I do love driving my T5 :)

Also the T6 post by Mogster in this thread may be of interest to you:
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24020&PN=1&TPN=3

Extended warranty is quite expensive($2300.00 for 2years). I didn't buy one. Instead I save $1,200.00 per year for any possible repairs (if saving is not used for repairs it could be used as a deposit for a new van). I know it doesn't have to be enough to cover for some repairs, but if I would see any symptom of what could be very expensive repair, I can always trade in and let the dealer to take care of it.;)

I also can't imagine myself driving current Hiace.:)

[Golf Loon]

My non VWA fix for getting oil out of the cooling system is a 4L container of liquid degreaser from supercheep $9. Put 2L in with water in the cooling system, run the vehicle until the fans kick in, then pull off the bottom radiator hose and make a mess. Wait till it cools and then put a hose in the expansion bottle and the top hose of the radiator and flush vigorously. Repeat with the 2nd 2Ls of degreaser, then drain and flush again and refill with coolant as per manufacturers guidelines.

If there is still more oil coming after that, you have a problem.

[Transporter]

My non VWA fix for getting oil out of the cooling system is a 4L container of liquid degreaser from supercheep $9. Put 2L in with water in the cooling system, run the vehicle until the fans kick in, then pull off the bottom radiator hose and make a mess. Wait till it cools and then put a hose in the expansion bottle and the top hose of the radiator and flush vigorously. Repeat with the 2nd 2Ls of degreaser, then drain and flush again and refill with coolant as per manufacturers guidelines.

If there is still more oil coming after that, you have a problem.


Mate,
you can buy Radiator/Cooling system flush and have a better chance that you will make no damage to your car's cooling system components.
I wouldn't risk it with degreaser no matter what.

[cetane]

Loon's remedy works. I know, I've done it several times...but... some degreasers are quite corrosive, particularly to Al and especially where you have thin components like radiator cores. You have to get EVERY DROP OF IT OUT! This means removing the thermostat and flushing the radiator and block separately. Open drain plugs if you have them and flush...and flush...and flush... If you can, do a pH test of the water in the system after you flush for the last time (before you drop out the water an replace it with coolant). It should be as close to neutral (7) as possible.

[gregozedobe]

Extended warranty is quite expensive($2300.00 for 2years). I didn't buy one. Instead I save $1,200.00 per year for any possible repairs (if saving is not used for repairs it could be used as a deposit for a new van).

I know it doesn't have to be enough to cover for some repairs, but if I would see any symptom of what could be very expensive repair, I can always trade in and let the dealer to take care of it.;)

Hmmmm....... If VWA extended warranty is that expensive I will have to ponder a bit. Unfortunately it is pretty easy to spend an awful lot in a hurry on repairs.

I wouldn't be relying on an expensive fault being undetectable when the dealer takes it for a test drive before deciding how much to offer you as a trade-in (eg dud turbo, oil in the coolant), but we each have to make our own decisions on how much risk we are willing to tolerate.

[gldgti]

Loon's remedy works. I know, I've done it several times...but... some degreasers are quite corrosive, particularly to Al and especially where you have thin components like radiator cores. You have to get EVERY DROP OF IT OUT! This means removing the thermostat and flushing the radiator and block separately. Open drain plugs if you have them and flush...and flush...and flush... If you can, do a pH test of the water in the system after you flush for the last time (before you drop out the water an replace it with coolant). It should be as close to neutral (7) as possible.

wise words... the addition of some mildly harmless acid solution (white vinegar perhaps) to the flush may help to neutralise any remaining caustic solution.

[Transporter]

Why would you take any risk of damaging cooling system? You can get funny coolant leaks or some other problems couple years down the track.
There is a product, which actually works.

http://www.wurth.com.au/catalogueview.asp?pdf=A04_0049.pdf

[Golf Loon]

Cooling system flushes dont get all the oil out.

But you must flush all of the degreaser out as cetane mentioned.

Checking the ph, or adding white vinegar is a good idea too.

[Transporter]

Cooling system flushes dont get all the oil out.

But you must flush all of the degreaser out as cetane mentioned.

Checking the ph, or adding white vinegar is a good idea too.

That's not truth, I always used radiator flush only. And, if used correctly you will remove all the oil out of the cooling system at the same time like you would be using degreaser and using the same amount of water like you would be using degreaser only the difference will be that you used proper product and you don't have to worry about degreaser doing some damage to radiator, hoses, plastic components in the cooling system and cylinder head gasket. At least you would be sure that when it starts to overheat it wasn't you who killed the cooling system.

Remember always use proper tool.:)

[99gti]

What would be the active ingredient in the radiator flush that would be able to get off all the oil?

Grease and oil is very acidic. Degreaser is highly alkaline. It works by neutralising the grease and oil causing it to dissociate/fall apart and it then becomes easily taken up by towels or flushed away. If a radiator flush is able to perform the same job then it must also be highly alkaline.

Your method with the radiator flush may work but I would be looking at the chemistry that makes it so effective. By far the most logical way to do this is the way described by cetane and i guarantee it is also the cheapest. The Wurth product you posted gives you the pH level but notice how it says it needs to be flushed away straight away in bold letters. It's applying the exact same principle of neutralising the buildup and breaking the bond. Either method if done correctly should cause no harm.

[Transporter]

What would be the active ingredient in the radiator flush that would be able to get off all the oil?

Grease and oil is very acidic. Degreaser is highly alkaline. It works by neutralising the grease and oil causing it to dissociate/fall apart and it then becomes easily taken up by towels or flushed away. If a radiator flush is able to perform the same job then it must also be highly alkaline.

Your method with the radiator flush may work but I would be looking at the chemistry that makes it so effective. By far the most logical way to do this is the way described by cetane and i guarantee it is also the cheapest. The Wurth product you posted gives you the pH level but notice how it says it needs to be flushed away straight away in bold letters. It's applying the exact same principle of neutralising the buildup and breaking the bond. Either method if done correctly should cause no harm.

Still, the radiator flush is right product for the job and not a degreaser which you don't now what other chemicals are in it and what other effect it will have on cooling system.
It is modern engine cooling system we talking about not a 1970 farmers tractor on its last legs. :)
You should also remove expansion reservoir and clean it, before you start with flushing.

I also use 70mm dia. and 500mm long clear PVC tube on adapter on the top of reservoir for easy removing of surfaced oil via vacuum extractor while the engine is running.

[Tornado T5]

Just got a call from my dealer telling me that my oil cooler needs to be replaced under a VW campaign...so it's definately a known issue with an official replacement program for T5's..mines an MY07 built in June '07.