Stage 1 vs stage 2 - cost, gains

[gableguy]

Picked up a 2018 Arteon a few months ago, already had stage 1 APR tune & DSG tune installed by previous owner. It seemed delightfully quick compared to the R36 it replaced, but now I'm used to it... such is the curse of quick cars, they only feel quick for a limited time.

From what I understand there's a massive, easily noticeable difference (like 30% increase in power) when applying stage 1, which is like $1k, but then you spend more and get less with progressive tunes. Is that right? Can anyone offer insights into what the next steps are, how much power they add and what they cost? Does the res delete make it hideously noisy (as I do a lot of freeway driving, that would drive me nuts)?

[Lucas_R]

In my opinion and experience, stage 1 is definitely worth it - but stage 2 is such a small increase over stage 1 that its not really noticeable (except for your wallet being significantly lighter). Stay stage 1 or go to stage 3 (bigger turbo) would be my advice.

Also note, seeing you are currently tuned with APR, that APR no longer offers a stage 2 tune. So in addition to the parts required for stage 2 (intake / downpipe / intercooler) you also need to fork out $1.2-1.5k approx to move to a different tuning company who offers a stage 2.

My buddy used to have a Mk7 Golf R which as you probably know has the same engine and turbo as the Arteon. He got both stage 1 and then later stage 2 with APR and his car (tested on the dyno) went from 182kw to 224kw with stage 1 which was quite impressive. Then with stage 2 it went from 224kw to 236kw.....hardly worth it considering the cost of all the parts.

[Vedi]

but then you spend more and get less with progressive tunes.

I reckon this is fairly accurate. You quickly get diminishing returns for your $ as you push further into modifications.

Lucas makes a great recommendation that a turbo upgrade will probably net the biggest returns. You might get a touch more lag but you can run a decent amount of extra boost. To go beyond this you might be looking at expensive support mods such as: bigger injectors, fuel pump, etc.

Bang for buck I wouldn't overlook handling mods like sway bars or springs.

[nermal]

I have the Racingline Stage 1 and currently considering/planning Stage 2: VW Golf R, S3, TTS, Leon Cupra Tuning Software Remap | RacingLine (https://www.racingline.com/ea888-is38)

54119

My understanding is that Stage 2 provides a decent torque increase along with better throttle response (less turbo lag etc)? IIRC - someone posted something along those lines in another thread (arteon performance mods perhaps?).

The performance hardware upgrades I'm looking at for Stage 2 include an intercooler and catted downpipe (with ceramic heat-shield coating) - these will improve exhaust flow/spool up, air intake and reduce heat. So the throttle-response argument makes a lot of sense.

The way I see it, these are required for Stage 3 anyway and my understanding is that tuning 'upgrades' come free with the Stage 1 package.

BTW - I can really recommend the DSG tune to anyone considering an ECU tune. Makes the car much more drive-able everyday, when you're not trying to push additional kWs out of it.


Bang for buck I wouldn't overlook handling mods like sway bars or springs.

.. yeah, can highly recommend the sway bars too - much better handling!

[gableguy]

Thanks all - confirms my suspicions. Stage 2 is only worthwhile if you have decided to definitely take it to stage 3 afterwards, otherwise it's a lot of spend for ~6% power & ~12% torque.

Sway bars... Hmmm. Perhaps! I quite like the current ride/handling ratio, I don't drive that enthusiastically very often. But worth considering. I'd probably upgrade the brakes before that though. I hate how dull they look when the rest of the car is so schmick.

Maybe I'll convince the missus to tune her X5 instead... I'm willing to bet that 4.4L twin turbo V8 has some headroom to play with...

[amunra]

the difference between stage 1+ (stage 1 tune + sillicon intake and turbo elbow) vs stage 2 is like 15 - 20hp... the question u need to ask is do you wanna pay the $1000+ for a downpipe and possibly a blown turbo with APR stage 2 which i dont even think is available anymore because of the blown turbos... and whatever the costs to upgrade the tunes ...

you might want to look at small mods like the turbo elbow and hose to increase throttle response and other things to tighten up the drive.. its a pretty big car.. if it drives like the stock passat 206 it feels a little bit 'long' id be targetting that instead of just adding more power... what u gonna do with it?

p.s you also need to install an upgraded IC for stage2...

u might want to be looking at doing that anyway before doing the DP and stage2.

[BO11OS]

Hi, I am going from a stock car 2018 to a full stage 3, i can tell you what the difference is hopefully in the next few weeks, I have been waiting like 2 months for all parts to come in from overseas, I am going going all in around 25k worth, upgrading everything & the kicker is going with flex fuelling, hoping to see 350kw+ at the wheels. The company tuning are getting that now in Golf's so should be no probs in my Arteon. Looking to run into the 10 second quarter mile times, well that's the goal.

[amunra]

Hi, I am going from a stock car 2018 to a full stage 3, i can tell you what the difference is hopefully in the next few weeks, I have been waiting like 2 months for all parts to come in from overseas, I am going going all in around 25k worth, upgrading everything & the kicker is going with flex fuelling, hoping to see 350kw+ at the wheels. The company tuning are getting that now in Golf's so should be no probs in my Arteon. Looking to run into the 10 second quarter mile times, well that's the goal.

why is it costing 25k.. lol

[Manaz]

$25k is cheap to get a modern production road vehicle costing what an Arteon costs to a 10s drag vehicle...

[nermal]

Hi, I am going from a stock car 2018 to a full stage 3, i can tell you what the difference is hopefully in the next few weeks, I have been waiting like 2 months for all parts to come in from overseas, I am going going all in around 25k worth, upgrading everything & the kicker is going with flex fuelling, hoping to see 350kw+ at the wheels. The company tuning are getting that now in Golf's so should be no probs in my Arteon. Looking to run into the 10 second quarter mile times, well that's the goal.

That is AWESOME! Look forward to hearing how it goes for you =D

I'd be interested to know which parts you sourced and from where - I'm currently planning stage 2 and looking at things like intercoolers, catted downpipes and brakes (going the slow route to stage 3).

[amunra]

$25k is cheap to get a modern production road vehicle costing what an Arteon costs to a 10s drag vehicle...

i asked why.. whats he getting done.. full engine rebuild?

[Manaz]

Your "lol" at the end of it made is sound like a less genuine question. Fair enough though!

[amunra]

Your "lol" at the end of it made is sound like a less genuine question. Fair enough though!


and. you going to ban me?

[Manaz]

No, I am going to explain to you why I answered your post the way I did...

[amunra]

No, I am going to explain to you why I answered your post the way I did...

can u answer why hes spending 25k for stage 3

[Manaz]

can u answer why hes spending 25k for stage 3

No, that's for him to answer. I could guess (and it'd be an educated guess), but ultimately, it'd just be guessing. As I said, the "lol" at the end of your original question made it look like it wasn't a serious question, and I responded in line with that view. I apologise for making that mistake.

[amunra]

No, that's for him to answer. I could guess (and it'd be an educated guess), but ultimately, it'd just be guessing. As I said, the "lol" at the end of your original question made it look like it wasn't a serious question, and I responded in line with that view. I apologise for making that mistake.

Make a guess then... thats what this forum is about isnt it.. a discussion ?

lets see how close you can get to what this guy is actually getting

[Manaz]

OK, my guesses...

Beyond regular stage 3 upgrades (larger turbo, larger intake, larger intercooler, tune, possibly work on heads/valves/cams), some toughened parts (I wouldn't consider forged pistons and new gaskets and head bolts a full rebuild, that generally also includes work on the bottom end).
He already mentioned flex fuel, which likely means bigger/better injectors are involved (as stock injectors may not flow enough for E85 and the power levels it allows). Possibly fuel pump and FPR upgrades as well.
Producing power is one thing, getting it to the ground reliably is another. Wheels and tyres (semi-slicks perhaps), brake upgrades (power upgrades without brake upgrades are nasty) Haldex upgrade possibly to help get the power down to all four wheels.

More power's going to be required to get an Arteon into the 10s than to get a Golf R, as the Arteon's heavier and thus all other things being equal, acceleration's going to be slower.

[amunra]

OK, my guesses...

Beyond regular stage 3 upgrades (larger turbo, larger intake, larger intercooler, tune, possibly work on heads/valves/cams), some toughened parts (I wouldn't consider forged pistons and new gaskets and head bolts a full rebuild, that generally also includes work on the bottom end).
He already mentioned flex fuel, which likely means bigger/better injectors are involved (as stock injectors may not flow enough for E85 and the power levels it allows). Possibly fuel pump and FPR upgrades as well.
Producing power is one thing, getting it to the ground reliably is another. Wheels and tyres (semi-slicks perhaps), brake upgrades (power upgrades without brake upgrades are nasty) Haldex upgrade possibly to help get the power down to all four wheels.

More power's going to be required to get an Arteon into the 10s than to get a Golf R, as the Arteon's heavier and thus all other things being equal, acceleration's going to be slower.

U need to upgrade the charge pipes, turbo, injectors and HPFP with stage 3 ... costs alot less than 25k... u would already have the downpipe and IC from stage 1 /2...

2nd hand bbk off a wreck should cost alot less than the retail 5 - 6k for MQB bbk.....

Im guessing hes going for a full rebuild and close to 700hp+ if he wants fast reliable drag car.. theres guys getting 700hp on a stock engine and engine management to throttle the torque e.t.c not to blow anything up and put the power down... with a fully built engine its easy 700+hp all day.

If you arent using it for the drag strip regularly or own a shop / doing it urself for fun its alotta kesh

[Manaz]

The issue is he's not coming from Stage1 or Stage2 - he's starting from stock.


U need to upgrade the charge pipes, turbo, injectors and HPFP with stage 3 ... costs alot less than 25k... u would already have the downpipe and IC from stage 1 /2...

2nd hand bbk off a wreck should cost alot less than the retail 5 - 6k for MQB bbk.....

Im guessing hes going for a full rebuild and close to 700hp+ if he wants fast reliable drag car.. theres guys getting 700hp on a stock engine and engine management to throttle the torque e.t.c not to blow anything up and put the power down... with a fully built engine its easy 700+hp all day.

If you arent using it for the drag strip regularly or own a shop / doing it urself for fun its alotta kesh

And he's aiming for 500hp+, not 700hp (though that is technically 500hp+, I grant, people generally don't say 500+ when they mean ~700 :) ) :


Hi, I am going from a stock car 2018 to a full stage 3, i can tell you what the difference is hopefully in the next few weeks, I have been waiting like 2 months for all parts to come in from overseas, I am going going all in around 25k worth, upgrading everything & the kicker is going with flex fuelling, hoping to see 350kw+ at the wheels. The company tuning are getting that now in Golf's so should be no probs in my Arteon. Looking to run into the 10 second quarter mile times, well that's the goal.

Some people are happy with second hand, some people may want new (and if there's no second hand ones lying around, he's kinda stuck with new anyway).

A big question will be whether 350kW+ will get him to 10-second passes. Assuming an unladen weight of ~1700kgs, he'd need a fraction over 550hp to run a 10-second (10.999 or better) quarter mile.

[amunra]

The issue is he's not coming from Stage1 or Stage2 - he's starting from stock.



And he's aiming for 500hp+, not 700hp (though that is technically 500hp+, I grant, people generally don't say 500+ when they mean ~700 :) ) :



Some people are happy with second hand, some people may want new (and if there's no second hand ones lying around, he's kinda stuck with new anyway).

A big question will be whether 350kW+ will get him to 10-second passes. Assuming an unladen weight of ~1700kgs, he'd need a fraction over 550hp to run a 10-second (10.999 or better) quarter mile.

downpipe and IC .. +1.5-2K.

prob gonna need between 600 - 700HP full torque horses to move the arteon

[nermal]

why is it costing 25k.. lol

You CAN spend upwards of $13K on ceramic brakes alone. Most regular 6-piston 380mm brake kits are $5-6K... then include turbos, heavy duty clutches, exhausts etc - it all adds up quickly.

[amunra]

You CAN spend upwards of $13K on ceramic brakes alone. Most regular 6-piston 380mm brake kits are $5-6K... then include turbos, heavy duty clutches, exhausts etc - it all adds up quickly.

yeh. but why would you be putting on ceramics on a drag car? they are actually worse until heated up properly... more of a circuit track thing

[nermal]

yeh. but why would you be putting on ceramics on a drag car? they are actually worse until heated up properly... more of a circuit track thing

Aah, ok - so you're assuming that @BO11OS is going stage 3 just to get 10s quarter mile times? - but @BO11OS' can speak for his/her self.

Personally, if I only wanted a drag car, then I wouldn't choose an Arteon. I like the Arteon because it's a comfortable daily driver that looks good and can be tuned up for more fun.

[amunra]

Aah, ok - so you're assuming that @BO11OS is going stage 3 just to get 10s quarter mile times? - but @BO11OS' can speak for his/her self.

Personally, if I only wanted a drag car, then I wouldn't choose an Arteon. I like the Arteon because it's a comfortable daily driver that looks good and can be tuned up for more fun.


well he made it out like thats the aim.. and yeh i wouldnt have picked an arteon to go full build stage 3 either. stage 2 prob enough.. maybe a hybrid turbo stage 3

[petemac110]

well he made it out like thats the aim..

Re-reading his post, his stated aim was wanting to run 10s, not building a drag car. They are two very different things, and it's far more likely that he wants to build a rapid, spacious, comfortable, well-appointed street car, rather than turning an Arteon into a quarter mile focused machine. I guess the poster can clarify for us.

[amunra]

Re-reading his post, his stated aim was wanting to run 10s, not building a drag car. They are two very different things, and it's far more likely that he wants to build a rapid, spacious, comfortable, well-appointed street car, rather than turning an Arteon into a quarter mile focused machine. I guess the poster can clarify for us.

runnings 10s means ur going to the strip and running 10s

[petemac110]

runnings 10s means ur going to the strip and running 10s

Exactly - no mention of it being a drag car. Just a car capable of 10s. You can achieve the latter without necessarily being the former.

[BO11OS]

Hi guys, happy for anyone to ask me what I am doing & why & happy to break down the cost's, all parts are new. My car sit's under the car port 6 out of 7 days a week it's not my daily & to be honest my son is now 17 & into cars, he has a GTI & we are playing what that so it got me more motivated to play with my Arteon. I am an old school racer from 25 years ago when I had rotary's so the fact the Arteon is a luxury car but fast is a bonus.
Quick run down on parts & tune,
V5 large Techtronic's turbo (still very driveable)
larger intercooler
larger fuel injectors
high flow fuel pumps
full exhaust
full intake upgrade
will be a Galano flex fuel setup with DSG tuning also so will be able to run on E85 or premium
plenty of other bits I have left out, but basically I am going for a 10 second pass hopefully mid 10's already a proven package in multiple cars just search Galano, The car will still be very street friendly.
If anyone want's to know more feel free to message me & as soon as it's all done I will post up pics & info with a time slip as we go along.

[amunra]

Hi guys, happy for anyone to ask me what I am doing & why & happy to break down the cost's, all parts are new. My car sit's under the car port 6 out of 7 days a week it's not my daily & to be honest my son is now 17 & into cars, he has a GTI & we are playing what that so it got me more motivated to play with my Arteon. I am an old school racer from 25 years ago when I had rotary's so the fact the Arteon is a luxury car but fast is a bonus.
Quick run down on parts & tune,
V5 large Techtronic's turbo (still very driveable)
larger intercooler
larger fuel injectors
high flow fuel pumps
full exhaust
full intake upgrade
will be a Galano flex fuel setup with DSG tuning also so will be able to run on E85 or premium
plenty of other bits I have left out, but basically I am going for a 10 second pass hopefully mid 10's already a proven package in multiple cars just search Galano, The car will still be very street friendly.
If anyone want's to know more feel free to message me & as soon as it's all done I will post up pics & info with a time slip as we go along.

how many ponys u going for big boy

[BO11OS]

Going for as many as they can get out of it, I have seen them get 360 kw at the wheels also seen they got 415 kw on one manual golf, So told them I want what ever they can get out of it I want to run into the 10's

[amunra]

Going for as many as they can get out of it, I have seen them get 360 kw at the wheels also seen they got 415 kw on one manual golf, So told them I want what ever they can get out of it I want to run into the 10's


fair enough. u building the engine?

[BO11OS]

No standard engine with with all bolt on's.

[amunra]

No standard engine with with all bolt on's.

the ea888 is capable of alot of power 600+ HP if your tuner limits the torque not to blow the engine... if u want big torque which might be needed after u do ur stage 3 ur gonna need to build ur engine and clutchpacks then..


i wouldnt be spending any money on upgraded clutch packs or whatever u dont need it unless u burn urs which u probably wont


Source urself a pair of 2nd hand bigger brakes off a porsche or audi

[nermal]

the ea888 is capable of alot of power 600+ HP if your tuner limits the torque not to blow the engine... if u want big torque which might be needed after u do ur stage 3 ur gonna need to build ur engine and clutchpacks then..


i wouldnt be spending any money on upgraded clutch packs or whatever u dont need it unless u burn urs which u probably wont


Source urself a pair of 2nd hand bigger brakes off a porsche or audi


Interesting... 600HP+ (447kW+) would be impressive.

The Stage 3 bolt-on pathway I'm following reliably does 365kW (590Nm) - apparently it has a higher ceiling, but needs some engine strengthening to avoid breaking things: Stage 3 Turbo Kit for Golf R, Audi S3, Cupra, GTI | RacingLine (https://www.racingline.com/stage-3-tuning-20tsi-golf7r-audis3-auditts-golf7gti)

It "requires" a new clutch-pack (rated to 700Nm), but I was told to do that upgrade if/when the OEM clutches wears.

Just had another look at they tested a 2014 Golf R and got 0-100 in 2.9s and 400m in 10.92s - understanding that an Arteon is a heavier beast... makes me want to explore weight saving options ;-P

54130

[amunra]

Interesting... 600HP+ (447kW+) would be impressive.

The Stage 3 bolt-on pathway I'm following reliably does 365kW (590Nm) - apparently it has a higher ceiling, but needs some engine strengthening to avoid breaking things: Stage 3 Turbo Kit for Golf R, Audi S3, Cupra, GTI | RacingLine (https://www.racingline.com/stage-3-tuning-20tsi-golf7r-audis3-auditts-golf7gti)

It "requires" a new clutch-pack (rated to 700Nm), but I was told to do that upgrade if/when the OEM clutches wears.

only need to upgrade the engine internals if ur going beyond the stock engines torque threshold on the map... otherwise if u keep the torque lower in the tune or have engine management installed keeps it good.

theres enough 550 - 600 - 700hp ea888s showing it can be done on stock internals and 6speed gearboxes. if u have the 7 speed DSG it should be stronger than the 6 speed and only need to upgrade the clutches as u burn them or are doing many launches / drag meets.

[BO11OS]

Did you see if these power number are on 98 pump fuel or E85?
The tuner I am using is getting the numbers + you quoted but uses his own flex fuel setup. They just re wrote the GTI world record with a 9.9 @ 119, they also ran a 10.07 @140 HE isn't saying how much power it has only that it's over 400kw.



Interesting... 600HP+ (447kW+) would be impressive.

The Stage 3 bolt-on pathway I'm following reliably does 365kW (590Nm) - apparently it has a higher ceiling, but needs some engine strengthening to avoid breaking things: Stage 3 Turbo Kit for Golf R, Audi S3, Cupra, GTI | RacingLine (https://www.racingline.com/stage-3-tuning-20tsi-golf7r-audis3-auditts-golf7gti)

It "requires" a new clutch-pack (rated to 700Nm), but I was told to do that upgrade if/when the OEM clutches wears.

Just had another look at they tested a 2014 Golf R and got 0-100 in 2.9s and 400m in 10.92s - understanding that an Arteon is a heavier beast... makes me want to explore weight saving options ;-P

54130

[nermal]

Did you see if these power number are on 98 pump fuel or E85?
The tuner I am using is getting the numbers + you quoted but uses his own flex fuel setup. They just re wrote the GTI world record with a 9.9 @ 119, they also ran a 10.07 @140 HE isn't saying how much power it has only that it's over 400kw.

I'm not sure, but would assume 98 ron.. here's their blog post: Release: Racingline MQB 2.0TSI Stage 3 - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/release-racingline-mqb-2-0tsi-stage-3/)

[BO11OS]

Hi nermal, I am sceptical as from what I have seen to achieve those sort of number you'd need to be running on E85 not a stock engine with a high flow turbo.
The bolt on's I am getting are a lot more than that & I would expect to see between 350 to 380 kw at the wheels. But that's running on E85.

[nermal]

Hi nermal, I am sceptical as from what I have seen to achieve those sort of number you'd need to be running on E85 not a stock engine with a high flow turbo.
The bolt on's I am getting are a lot more than that & I would expect to see between 350 to 380 kw at the wheels. But that's running on E85.

Ok, I don't know if it's 360kW at the wheels either.

That is a Hybrid Turbo exchange and the Stage 3 also requires a lot of other parts to achieve those figures - R600 intake, pipes/hoses/elbows, intercooler, performance catted downpipe & exhaust, upgraded fuel pump etc, plus recommended 700Nm clutch upgrade, big brakes etc.

You can easily get to the $20-25K mark once you add all the hardware and ECU + DSG tune.

[nermal]

Looks like Racingline worked with VW Australia to build a "track ready", "Stage 3" Arteon with 360kW, 600Nm and 0-100km/h in 3.9 seconds (?"on an uphill straight"..."consistently"?)

I remember reading about this one, but didn't realize it was Racingline: VOLKSWAGEN CHOOSES RACINGLINE (https://www.racingline.com/single-post/2018/10/28/Volkswagen-Australia-chooses-RacingLine-Stage-3-to-build-480bhp-Art-Car)

[BO11OS]

Yes you can, adds up very quick.

[amunra]

Yes you can, adds up very quick.

adds up quick if your overspending on parts u dont really need for the build to go fast. its sort of overkill to protect the tuner / builder and ur the one paying for it..

I still think u can get stage 3 fun for 10 - 15k max

[Vedi]

adds up quick if your overspending on parts u dont really need for the build to go fast. its sort of overkill to protect the tuner / builder and ur the one paying for it..

I still think u can get stage 3 fun for 10 - 15k max

If you read the room, people are not interested putting the cheapest possible no-name parts in their cars.

Sure, everything can be done cheaper. Keen for you to get a Stage 3 for 10k fully installed and let us know how it goes after a year.

I spent a lot of years in the JDM tuning scene and people think they are clever zip tying front mounted ebay intercoolers with pvc piping, but it always catches up with them.

[amunra]

If you read the room, people are not interested putting the cheapest possible no-name parts in their cars.

Sure, everything can be done cheaper. Keen for you to get a Stage 3 for 10k fully installed and let us know how it goes after a year.

I spent a lot of years in the JDM tuning scene and people think they are clever zip tying front mounted ebay intercoolers with pvc piping, but it always catches up with them.

who said cheapest no name parts?

[amunra]

I spent a lot of years in the JDM tuning scene and people think they are clever zip tying front mounted ebay intercoolers with pvc piping, but it always catches up with them.

howd the zip ties go for you champ

[Vedi]

who said cheapest no name parts?

You were passionately arguing people should buy the Chinese ebay knockoff 'wanger' intercooler a few days ago.

I can only guess you've dropped into the Arteon area recently because the other sub-forums have stopped listening.

[petemac110]

If you read the room, people are not interested putting the cheapest possible no-name parts in their cars.

Exactly - many people are happy to spend the extra coin on quality parts or a comprehensive "one-stop-shop" package... drive in, drive out.

[amunra]

You were passionately arguing people should by the Chinese ebay knockoff 'wanger' intercooler a few days ago.

I can only guess you've dropped into the Arteon area recently because the other sub-forums have stopped listening.

we're talking about tuning / builds and costs here mate. if you have nothing to offer to the thread or you have a problem with something im saying and want to try and put words into my keyboard then you should log out u donkey.

25k stage 3 build can easily minus the big brake kit 5- 6k (only need upgraded discs and track pads) , overkill clutch packs on an already strong 7 speed ... another 3k+ and forged internals another 3k+

gets u down to 15k or less... start adding no name parts that do the same job or better... ur going even less.

But please.. you know everything because you were In the JDM scene and u saw some zip ties...

[BO11OS]

Personally I would pay more for a quality proven part that I know will do the job, I learnt early in life . Do it once do it properly. If I wanted cheap fun I'd have gone stage 2 but I want to get my car into a certain bracket (10's) so i'll pay for quality proven parts that will last years & the fun will pay for itself. Just my view from modding cars for half my life.

[amunra]

Personally I would pay more for a quality proven part that I know will do the job, I learnt early in life . Do it once do it properly. If I wanted cheap fun I'd have gone stage 2 but I want to get my car into a certain bracket (10's) so i'll pay for quality proven parts that will last years & the fun will pay for itself. Just my view from modding cars for half my life.

turbo and install - 4k
spark plugs and coilpacks - 300
intake tube and hose - 100
downpipe - 1000
exhaust - 2.5k
ic and charge pipes - less than 1000
hpfp - 1000
injectors - 1000
tune and dyno - 1500
upgraded discs and pads on oem calipers $500 or + 2nd hand audi / porsche big brake - 2k



overkill line -----------------------

potentially useless air intake - 1k. retail big brake kit for 5k? built motor 3 -4k? upgrdaded clutch packs - 3-4k?


all good parts there and i havent been that stingey and accomodated a bit for install... if you wanna be very Retail with the prices gonna be going well over 25k? is that how ur prices are looking? once u go over that overkill line not sure ur having anymore 'fun' but you definately are paying alot more for not much

[petemac110]

turbo and install - 4k
spark plugs and coilpacks - 300
intake tube and hose - 100
downpipe - 1000
exhaust - 2.5k
ic and charge pipes - less than 1000
hpfp - 1000
injectors - 1000
tune and dyno - 1500
upgraded discs and pads on oem calipers $500 or + 2nd hand audi / porsche big brake - 2k



overkill line -----------------------

potentially useless air intake - 1k. retail big brake kit for 5k? built motor 3 -4k? upgrdaded clutch packs - 3-4k?


all good parts there and i havent been that stingey and accomodated a bit for install... if you wanna be very Retail with the prices gonna be going well over 25k? is that how ur prices are looking? once u go over that overkill line not sure ur having anymore 'fun' but you definately are paying alot more for not much

But why does it matter if someone wants to spend more on the full-monty package, as a drive-in, drive-out solution which is more expensive than cobbling together a setup from various sources? Some will be very happy to spend more for this option, and it’s no less valid than someone wanting to save a few bucks by following a different route. Not everyone is driven by doing something or buying something for as cheaply as possible.

I absolutely get why many will want to maximise the bang for buck (that’s my modus operandi) but I equally understand the allure and simplicity of drive-away package. Different priorities for different people.

[amunra]

But why does it matter if someone wants to spend more

it doesnt. u just dont have to

[petemac110]

it doesnt. u just dont have to

All depends on priorities - bottom-dollar isn’t always a priority.

[amunra]

All depends on priorities - bottom-dollar isn’t always a priority.

didnt know installing stuff that isnt needed to meet a target was a priority

[petemac110]

didnt know installing stuff that isnt needed to meet a target was a priority

Depends on your definition of “isn’t needed”. We’ve already discussed this above. We are flogging a dead horse here.

[amunra]

Depends on your definition of “isn’t needed”. We’ve already discussed this above. We are flogging a dead horse here.

so far... ive been closest to getting some info about his build and have a discussion... which he seems reluctant to tell us exactly whats going on in this or his builder is reluctant to tell him ?....

you guys are the ones flogging the deadhorse squabbling over symantics.

'needs' and 'priorities'..

his aim is to get his arteon in the 10s.. simply doesnt need to spend that extra 10 - 15k to do it..

If he wants to spend all that cash to say his arteon goes in the 10s but goes to the track once every 3 years then he can.

this forum actually is more of a **** comparing / swinging contest than a discussion forum.

[nermal]

Personally I would pay more for a quality proven part that I know will do the job, I learnt early in life . Do it once do it properly. If I wanted cheap fun I'd have gone stage 2 but I want to get my car into a certain bracket (10's) so i'll pay for quality proven parts that will last years & the fun will pay for itself. Just my view from modding cars for half my life.

Yeah, agreed. Happy to pay a bit extra for a proven platform (that VW Australia themselves selected).

I'm going to stage 3 the long way, stopping at stage 1 & 2 along the way - which the package allows for.

Stage 2 parts are on order now. There's a 3-4 month wait for the ceramic coated performance catted downpipe. Also upgrading the intercooler and hosing/piping. Package comes with free ECU tune upgrades along the way.

[amunra]

Yeah, agreed. Happy to pay a bit extra for a proven platform (that VW Australia themselves selected).

I'm going to stage 3 the long way, stopping at stage 1 & 2 along the way - which the package allows for.

Stage 2 parts are on order now. There's a 3-4 month wait for the ceramic coated performance catted downpipe. Also upgrading the intercooler and hosing/piping. Package comes with free ECU tune upgrades along the way.

how much u paying for ur stage 2 pack and what u getting?

[nermal]

how much u paying for ur stage 2 pack and what u getting?

Seems like a little bit of a loaded question, but sure, I'll bite =D

Here are the parts with RRP pricing (discounts sometimes apply), labour costs extra:

Milltek performance catted downpipe (200 cell), with Zircotec ceramic coating ($350 extra), I'll upgrade the rest of the exhaust (cat back) with stage 3: Milltek Sport Cast Catted Downpipe - VW Golf MK7/7.5 R/8V S3, for OE Exhaust [SSXVW386] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/milltek-sport-cast-catted-downpipe-vw-golf-mk7-7-5-r-8v-s3-for-oe-ex) ($2,100)

Racingline Intercooler - emailed Jeff from mygolfmk7.com and he felt it should be up to task: RACINGLINE 2.0 TSI INTERCOOLER MQB [VWR E 14G700] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-2-0-tsi-intercooler-mqb-vwr-e-14g700/) ($2,095)

Racingline Turbo boost pipe hose kit: RACINGLINE TURBO BOOST PIPE HOSE KIT EA888.3 2.0 TSI[VWR E 140004] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-turbo-boost-pipe-hose-kit-ea888-3-2-0-tsivwr-e-140004/) ($550)

Racingline R600 underhose (should have bought this with the R600 - if I'd known): Racingline R600 Coolant Underhose [VWR17G7R600] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/r600-coolant-underhosevwr17g7r600/) ($125)

Racingline Stage 1 -> Stage 2 tuning upgrade: BUNDLE RACINGLINE OEM+ PERFORMANCE ECU SOFTWARE - MK 7/7.5 s3 8V 2.0 TSI MQB IS38 - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/bundle-racingline-oem-performance-ecu-software-mk-7-7-5-s3-8v-2-0-tsi-mqb-is38/) ($Free)

+ Wheel alignment
+ Labour

Oh BTW - it seems they have 20% off their ECU/DSG tuning atm.

[amunra]

Seems like a little bit of a loaded question, but sure, I'll bite =D

Here are the parts with RRP pricing (discounts sometimes apply), labour costs extra:

Milltek performance catted downpipe (200 cell), with Zircotec ceramic coating ($350 extra), I'll upgrade the rest of the exhaust (cat back) with stage 3: Milltek Sport Cast Catted Downpipe - VW Golf MK7/7.5 R/8V S3, for OE Exhaust [SSXVW386] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/milltek-sport-cast-catted-downpipe-vw-golf-mk7-7-5-r-8v-s3-for-oe-ex) ($2,100)

Racingline Intercooler - emailed Jeff from mygolfmk7.com and he felt it should be up to task: RACINGLINE 2.0 TSI INTERCOOLER MQB [VWR E 14G700] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-2-0-tsi-intercooler-mqb-vwr-e-14g700/) ($2,095)

Racingline Turbo boost pipe hose kit: RACINGLINE TURBO BOOST PIPE HOSE KIT EA888.3 2.0 TSI[VWR E 140004] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-turbo-boost-pipe-hose-kit-ea888-3-2-0-tsivwr-e-140004/) ($550)

Racingline R600 underhose (should have bought this with the R600 - if I'd known): Racingline R600 Coolant Underhose [VWR17G7R600] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/r600-coolant-underhosevwr17g7r600/) ($125)

Racingline Stage 1 -> Stage 2 tuning upgrade: BUNDLE RACINGLINE OEM+ PERFORMANCE ECU SOFTWARE - MK 7/7.5 s3 8V 2.0 TSI MQB IS38 - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/bundle-racingline-oem-performance-ecu-software-mk-7-7-5-s3-8v-2-0-tsi-mqb-is38/) ($Free)

+ Wheel alignment
+ Labour

Oh BTW - it seems they have 20% off their ECU/DSG tuning atm.

not bad. they made up for the price of the parts with a free tune... did u have to pay for ur stage 1 tho? most tuners usually do a free upgrade from stage 1 to 2

[nermal]

not bad. they made up for the price of the parts with a free tune... did u have to pay for ur stage 1 tho? most tuners usually do a free upgrade from stage 1 to 2

Yeah, I paid for the original Stage 1 ECU+DSG tune and it includes free "upgrades for life": RACINGLINE OEM+SOFTWARE FAQ - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-oemsoftware-faq/)

[amunra]

Yeah, I paid for the original Stage 1 ECU+DSG tune and it includes free "upgrades for life": RACINGLINE OEM+SOFTWARE FAQ - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-oemsoftware-faq/)

fair enough. if vw australia approve it does that mean vw australia cover it all under warranty?

[petemac110]

so far... ive been closest to getting some info about his build and have a discussion... which he seems reluctant to tell us exactly whats going on in this or his builder is reluctant to tell him ?....

you guys are the ones flogging the deadhorse squabbling over symantics.

'needs' and 'priorities'..

his aim is to get his arteon in the 10s.. simply doesnt need to spend that extra 10 - 15k to do it..

If he wants to spend all that cash to say his arteon goes in the 10s but goes to the track once every 3 years then he can.

this forum actually is more of a **** comparing / swinging contest than a discussion forum.

Having a discussion... you seem focused on trying to convince him to spend less or needing to justify parts that you deem unnecessary and overkill - doing the bare minimum to reach the target. Anything you don't agree with is met with snide comments. Cost-minimisation and bang-for-buck appears to be your focus and that's all good for you, but as he has stated in the thread, he's getting a Galano E85 flex fuel setup. Galano are arguably at the cutting-edge of EA888 tuning in Australia at the moment. They have the runs on the board, and I can absolutely understand why someone might want to go for a proven setup like this, rather than tuning the EA888 to within an inch of its life on Australia's relatively poor 98RON fuel.

It's not always about getting the most bang for the least buck - that's a personal preference. Just because you don't see value in the name-brand parts, doesn't mean it's the gospel of the Lord.

I still haven't been able to find BO11OS's question "I want to reach 10s but not spend $25k on a Galano setup - tell me how to get there" but you seen fixated on answering it nonetheless ;)

[amunra]

Having a discussion... you seem focused on trying to convince him to spend less or needing to justify parts that you deem unnecessary and overkill - doing the bare minimum to reach the target. Anything you don't agree with is met with snide comments. Cost-minimisation and bang-for-buck appears to be your focus and that's all good for you, but as he has stated in the thread, he's getting a Galano E85 flex fuel setup. Galano are arguably at the cutting-edge of EA888 tuning in Australia at the moment. They have the runs on the board, and I can absolutely understand why someone might want to go for a proven setup like this, rather than tuning the EA888 to within an inch of its life on Australia's relatively poor 98RON fuel.

It's not always about getting the most bang for the least buck - that's a personal preference. Just because you don't see value in the name-brand parts, doesn't mean it's the gospel of the Lord.

I still haven't been able to find BO11OS's question "I want to reach 10s but not spend $25k on a Galano setup - tell me how to get there" but you seen fixated on answering it nonetheless ;)

this thread is actually about cost / gains on stage 1 -2... so now im talking about the cost for stage 3... not entirely sure what youre talking about you actually just sound like ur on here defending this guy.. noones attacking him... noones told him to do anything im asking what hes buying , why hes spending so much money and saying its possible to spend less for the same result... it applies to him and anyone else on this forum you soft cock

[nermal]

fair enough. if vw australia approve it does that mean vw australia cover it all under warranty?

Heh, yeah I wish! Sorry, I meant that VW Australia chose it for their Art3on performance car project a few years back (I remember reading about it):

Volkswagen creates world'''s fastest Arteon - carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/volkswagen-creates-worlds-fastest-arteon-115088)

VOLKSWAGEN CHOOSES RACINGLINE (https://www.racingline.com/single-post/2018/10/28/Volkswagen-Australia-chooses-RacingLine-Stage-3-to-build-480bhp-Art-Car)

[amunra]

Heh, yeah I wish! Sorry, I meant that VW Australia chose it for their Art3on performance car project a few years back (I remember reading about it):

Volkswagen creates world'''s fastest Arteon - carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/volkswagen-creates-worlds-fastest-arteon-115088)

VOLKSWAGEN CHOOSES RACINGLINE (https://www.racingline.com/single-post/2018/10/28/Volkswagen-Australia-chooses-RacingLine-Stage-3-to-build-480bhp-Art-Car)

ahaha with those prices u mentioned u would think so !

[Manaz]

you soft cock

And now we know why you run into issues with moderators. If you were testing the waters to see how hard you can push, you've over-cooked it.

First and final warning. Further abusive posts will be deleted (and no, I am not going to spend the time editing them so that anything of value that you do say remains - that's your problem), and consistent inappropriate posting will result in a ban.

Don't start blaming others if you can't keep your abusive manner in check. Your freedom of speech does NOT cover abusing other members.

[Manaz]

All.

If you can't be polite, or if not polite, at least respectful, don't click the submit/post/whatever button.

I've cleaned up a whole pile of mess in here from multiple people.

Let's keep it civil and on topic. You're allowed to disagree with each other - but do it without insults (implicit or explicit) please.

[amunra]

sooo.. neone drive their vw today ?.. teehee:rolleyes:

[Manaz]

Plenty. But we need to make sure that if we want them to keep coming here, that we keep discussion civil and on-topic, so that the site remains a resource where good information is easily obtained.

We don't want/need to become Facebook.

[BO11OS]

Well after all the waiting all parts needed are in & I dropped my Arteon off today at the workshop, looking to get it back in around 1.5 to 2, I have also left my haldex controller with them to install & tune to suite as the Galano tune is a boost by gear setup. I have 3 x 19 litre drums of VP c85 race fuel sitting in my garage for when it returns & used for drag duties.

[Lucas_R]

Well after all the waiting all parts needed are in & I dropped my Arteon off today at the workshop, looking to get it back in around 1.5 to 2, I have also left my haldex controller with them to install & tune to suite as the Galano tune is a boost by gear setup. I have 3 x 19 litre drums of VP c85 race fuel sitting in my garage for when it returns & used for drag duties.

You will love it - Galano are the best in the business at the moment for EA888 tuning so they will have it running sweet as a nut no doubt. What turbo are you using? TTE, EQT or Garrett etc.

If you are happy to share, id like to know what parts you have chosen to run (downpipe/intercooler/hpfp etc) as im contemplating a mild stage 3 on my GTI also, with either the HPA IS38 OEM+ or Garrett Powermaxx stage 1 turbo. Id be happy with 250kw or thereabouts as its still a FWD car (albeit with the Performance Pack front LSD).

Is the work being done at Pacortech in Ingleburn? I know Galano operate out of that workshop sometimes as they have a dyno etc.

[BO11OS]

Hi Lucas,

I am running a V5 large turbo. I was supposed to go with the EQT but they where not available & not eta. Happy to discuss all parts I am using if you wanna shoot me a message. Car is at Carbon Autohaus but will head to Pacortech so Galano can dyno tune it.



You will love it - Galano are the best in the business at the moment for EA888 tuning so they will have it running sweet as a nut no doubt. What turbo are you using? TTE, EQT or Garrett etc.

If you are happy to share, id like to know what parts you have chosen to run (downpipe/intercooler/hpfp etc) as im contemplating a mild stage 3 on my GTI also, with either the HPA IS38 OEM+ or Garrett Powermaxx stage 1 turbo. Id be happy with 250kw or thereabouts as its still a FWD car (albeit with the Performance Pack front LSD).

Is the work being done at Pacortech in Ingleburn? I know Galano operate out of that workshop sometimes as they have a dyno etc.

[BO11OS]

Also my son has a GTI, Carbon Autohaus just recently installed a IS38 on it & re did the stage 2 APR tune, with a single spinner he ran a best of 12.9 @ 114mph his 1st time out.

[Vedi]

Car is at Carbon Autohaus but will head to Pacortech so Galano can dyno tune it.

Nice one, I've only recently started getting my cars serviced there and they seem like a great crew. They were talking about a Stage 3 Arteon coming along soon so it must be yours.

[BO11OS]

I would think so mate, not to many guys going this deep with an Arteon. Can't wait, they are great guys.



Nice one, I've only recently started getting my cars serviced there and they seem like a great crew. They were talking about a Stage 3 Arteon coming along soon so it must be yours.

[amunra]

they got a HP and TQ number on that package yet?

[Lucas_R]

they got a HP and TQ number on that package yet?

Galano Engineering - Home (https://www.facebook.com/galanoengineering/)

350-360kw at the wheels on E85 based off other cars they have done with the same/similar mods.

[nermal]

The Arteon is going in for stage 2 on Monday, so I should have a better idea of stage 1 vs stage 2 next week.

Stage 2 upgrades include:
- RacingLine Intercooler with silicone boost hoses
- Milltek performance catted downpipe with zircotec ceramic coating, OE exhaust connecting pipe (for now)
- RacingLine oil cooler + brackets
- R600 underhose
- RacingLine subframe brace and subframe alignment kit
- RacingLine stage 2 tune

[nermal]

Got it home this morning and it's a different kind of beast now. I'll provide more detail soon (after I've driven it a little more too).

There are a few more RacingLine emblems under there now :-)
I'll try get some photos of the subframe brace, oil cooler and intercooler soon also.

54616


Zircotec-coated Milltek Sports Catted Downpipe:

54617


RacingLine Oil Cooler:

54618

[BO11OS]

Been a while since my last post, sadly my car sat in the shop for a few months waiting for some stuff, In the meantime they fitted the racing line airbox the miltek cat back part of the exhaust & just a stage 1 ARP tune so I could get the car driveable till they sort of what they need too. Took the car to Eastern Creek drags this week to get a time & have to say I was pretty happy for the base mods.
Car ran 12.5 @110 mph then backed it up so I was happy with that & went home, hopefully the rest of the parts & tune will be added sometime soon.
If any of you haven't taken your Arteon to the drags I would highly recommend it these things launch pretty dam well.

[nermal]

Very happy with Stage 2 so far. You can feel the extra torque and it seems to have bit more urgency to get up to speed (revs up quicker).

The oil cooler is working well, it's slower to heat up and generally ~5-10°C cooler than 'normal'. Rarely reaches/exceeds 100°C, even with 'spirited' street driving. I think the zircotec (ceramic) coated downpipe and larger intercooler also help with heat reduction - will look into ceramic exhaust manifold and turbo coatings when planning Stage 3.

The subframe brace + alignment kit was also a nice addition. It's certainly more taught and my sunroof doesn't seems to pop/rattle as much.

But, was Stage 2 worth the cost vs gains?

Personally, I'd do it again! =) It's not as big of a change as Stage 1 for the pricing (less bang for buck), but I also have no regrets or buyer's remorse.

I'm very happy with the car I currently have for what I've paid overall and will probably enjoy Stage 2 for a little while, before planning out a longer-term Stage 3 path.

[Lucas_R]

will look into ceramic exhaust manifold and turbo coatings when planning Stage 3


Just FYI there is no exhaust manifold on these engines - the exhaust manifold is built into the head so its all internal. A turbo blanket would be the next best thing to control heat. CTS TURBO IS12 / IS20 / IS38 TURBO BLANKET (https://vwcentral.com.au/cts-turbo-is12-is20-is38-turbo-blanket.html)

Otherwise, good to hear you are enjoying the new power.

[nermal]

Just FYI there is no exhaust manifold on these engines - the exhaust manifold is built into the head so its all internal. A turbo blanket would be the next best thing to control heat. CTS TURBO IS12 / IS20 / IS38 TURBO BLANKET (https://vwcentral.com.au/cts-turbo-is12-is20-is38-turbo-blanket.html)

Otherwise, good to hear you are enjoying the new power.

Thanks! That's a great idea =)

Are they hard to fit? Or is it just reaching under the hood with a bit of hand contortions?

[BO11OS]

The oil cooler is working well, it's slower to heat up and generally ~5-10°C cooler than 'normal'. Rarely reaches/exceeds 100°C, even with 'spirited' street driving.

The subframe brace + alignment kit was also a nice addition. It's certainly more taught and my sunroof doesn't seems to pop/rattle as much.

Hi mate, what oil cooler are you using? My car with a stage 1 sits between 89 to 93 when cruising & giving it some. Would defiantly be interested in the brace you are using I know my car / sunroof makes some noise even when going down a driveway / gutter.

cheers Allan.

[nermal]

Hi mate, what oil cooler are you using? ... Would defiantly be interested in the brace you are using I know my car / sunroof makes some noise even when going down a driveway / gutter.

cheers Allan.

I went with the RacingLine cooler and brace:

Oil cooler: Racingline Oil Cooler Kit - Universal MQB fitment - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-oil-cooler-kit-universal-mqb-fitment/)

Subframe brace: RACINGLINE SUBFRAME BRACE FOR MQB & MQB EVO FOR GOLF 7 R, 8 R, GTI, AUDI A3, S3, RS3 [VWR810006] - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-subframe-brace-for-mqb-mqb-evo-for-golf-7-r-8-r-gti-audi-a3-s3-rs3-vwr810006/)

Subframe alignment kit: Racingline Subframe Alignment Kit - MQB - Harding Performance (https://hp.net.au/home/product/racingline-subframe-alignment-kit-mqb/)

I also plan to upgrade the rear brace when I upgrade the exhaust.


My car with a stage 1 sits between 89 to 93 when cruising & giving it some.

Odd, mine would sit around 100-105°C with stage 1 ... I do live in Qld, but that was also during our "winter" ... could there be something making mine run hotter than usual?

[BO11OS]

Not sure why yours would run hotter, I would guess just hotter in QLD then Sydney. I also have the same oil cooler & I bought the gearbox oil cooler but still waiting for then to go in.

[nermal]

Are they hard to fit? Or is it just reaching under the hood with a bit of hand contortions?

So... to answer my own question - they aren't an easy fit. The video made it look like simply wrapping a cloth around the turbo, but that's with the engine out.

I think I'll need to remove the heat shield first - will try again another time. Also, a word of warning: wear gloves, the woven material appears to be fibreglass and is quite itchy.

[Lucas_R]

So... to answer my own question - they aren't an easy fit. The video made it look like simply wrapping a cloth around the turbo, but that's with the engine out.

I think I'll need to remove the heat shield first - will try again another time. Also, a word of warning: wear gloves, the woven material appears to be fibreglass and is quite itchy.

Sorry i just realised I never replied. Yes the material is very itchy and will itch you for hours after touching it. Wetting it can help, but gloves are essential. There are metal springs/wires used to hold the turbo blanket in place which is fiddly. Ive never fitted one to a Golf, but did years ago fit one to my old Nissan 200sx and yes they are a bid fiddly.

[Andysuew]

I’m running a APR Stage 1 tune and I only see between 87-90 oil temp and 83-87 water temp. Other than the tune, no other engine mods. Before the tune, I was up in the 100-103 oil temps. Very happy with the result I’m getting.

[nermal]

I’m running a APR Stage 1 tune and I only see between 87-90 oil temp and 83-87 water temp. Other than the tune, no other engine mods. Before the tune, I was up in the 100-103 oil temps. Very happy with the result I’m getting.

Ok, do you mostly drive on main roads/highways?

I do a lot of city driving and have auto start/stop disabled. When cruising on a main road/highway, it'll sit around 95°C, otherwise it usually settles around 98-100°C. It was ~100-105°C at stage 1 (without the oil cooler), which is similar to your stock temps.

The RacingLine tune might just run a bit hotter/leaner.. where the APR tune could be a bit richer/cooler. Though fuel economy isn't exactly "great" either =D

My Arteon also makes a little bit of belt noise, especially when cold - I thought it was normal, but perhaps that's something that needs to be looked into =/ ...

[Andysuew]

Ok, do you mostly drive on main roads/highways?

I do a lot of city driving and have auto start/stop disabled. When cruising on a main road/highway, it'll sit around 95°C, otherwise it usually settles around 98-100°C. It was ~100-105°C at stage 1 (without the oil cooler), which is similar to your stock temps.

The RacingLine tune might just run a bit hotter/leaner.. where the APR tune could be a bit richer/cooler. Though fuel economy isn't exactly "great" either =D

My Arteon also makes a little bit of belt noise, especially when cold - I thought it was normal, but perhaps that's something that needs to be looked into =/ ...


Its a mixture of highway and suburban and the occasional mountain run. My economy is slightly better than before on average so no complaints there. As you say, the Raceline tune may run a little leaner that the APR which would help explain the temp differences.

I’d be checking on that belt noise. You don’t want that to fail stuck in city traffic.