Finished boot install

[Soundofav6]

finially had chance to post pics, enjoy.


http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/02/DSC06543-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/02/DSC06540-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/02/DSC06535-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/02/DSC06534-1.jpg

To something totally unrelated......Any one got pics of custom 6x9'' mounting on parcel shelf, considering my next project when I have the funds, I am not getting enough BASS on my 6" at the door, I think my the clips on my door are cracked therefore the woofers are not mounted as solid as they should be. Dynamat helped a bit but still far from what I want.

[MattyT]

The bass from my front stage is crap too :(

Very nice boot install tho, well done!

[BL33SU]

very clean boot install..

it mite be the way u tuned your system... my system sounds like the bass comes from the center of the front dash always. so it makes it sound like my speakers r pumping big bass but i dont even have any bass through my speakers.

[The_Hawk]

So when can I drop my VR round?

Very nice work. Glad I say that today too because I need to grab an Anti Fire Bottle and I noticed AutoBarn has 20% off today :D So I'll have to go out later.

[BL33SU]

So when can I drop my VR round?

Very nice work. Glad I say that today too because I need to grab an Anti Fire Bottle and I noticed AutoBarn has 20% off today :D So I'll have to go out later.

all autobarn's?

[Soundofav6]

very clean boot install..

it mite be the way u tuned your system... my system sounds like the bass comes from the center of the front dash always. so it makes it sound like my speakers r pumping big bass but i dont even have any bass through my speakers.

You have just described exactly how I feel, it is pummping out bass but I am not feeling it. Another words the bass is on/in the door. And matty you are having crapy bass too ?? I wonder if it is the structure of our doors thats making the crappy bass ????????????????????

Actually I remember the previous owner use 6" instead of 6.5" speaker and had an adaptor, it was pumping out bass perfectly.


Fire bottle ... lol ... I am taking no chances after my fire !! This bottle only cost me 20 bucks.

[Mr ©harisma]

You have just described exactly how I feel, it is pummping out bass but I am not feeling it. Another words the bass is on/in the door. And matty you are having crapy bass too ?? I wonder if it is the structure of our doors thats making the crappy bass ????????????????????

Actually I remember the previous owner use 6" instead of 6.5" speaker and had an adaptor, it was pumping out bass perfectly.


What do you have running in your fronts?

In the Bora the doors are sealed so I mounted a Boston SL 60 woofer in each of the doors with 2 sheets of dynamat xtreme and a dynasorb pad per side. Mid bass is great even with the stock door trim over the top.

[MattyT]

Ive got Alpine Type-X's in my doors + dynamat. I think its a 6.5" woofer. Zero bass n very weak mid bass. Already had 2 audio shops have a crack at it :(

[Soundofav6]

What do you have running in your fronts?

In the Bora the doors are sealed so I mounted a Boston SL 60 woofer in each of the doors with 2 sheets of dynamat xtreme and a dynasorb pad per side. Mid bass is great even with the stock door trim over the top.

I am running boston S60 on front and back, one layer of dynamat to seal the speaker hole and one layer in the service holes. I found the biggest difference is having dynamat where the speaker is mounted. But still not getting the BASS I want.

I think I should try DIY a an MDF spacer, so that it is resting on something SOLID. wonder if that would help ??

I just tried bridging my fronts, EXTRA bASS instantly but louder engine Noise... MASSIVE HEAD ACHE !!!!

[BL33SU]

I am running boston S60 on front and back, one layer of dynamat to seal the speaker hole and one layer in the service holes. I found the biggest difference is having dynamat where the speaker is mounted. But still not getting the BASS I want.

I think I should try DIY a an MDF spacer, so that it is resting on something SOLID. wonder if that would help ??

I just tried bridging my fronts, EXTRA bASS instantly but louder engine Noise... MASSIVE HEAD ACHE !!!!


u need bettter grounding also check your frqency..

[ScienceVR6]

i'm running VDO Dayton 6.5" drivers, and my front bass/mid bass is great. i'm not running dynamat, but my doors are stuffed full of dackron.

[Lorenz]

Very nice install there mate, love the neatness of it all and the falso floor, something Im gonna do soon when I get a chance :)


Im running 6.5" Pioneer Bullet Splits in the front, stock door trims, no dynamat or anything and get quite nice mid range and low end bass from them if need be, but have the bass turned down for the fronts as it was too much. What my sub is for!

Do you have the fronts amped or just running off the headunit?
Can make a heck of a difference

[Mr ©harisma]

Ive got Alpine Type-X's in my doors + dynamat. I think its a 6.5" woofer. Zero bass n very weak mid bass. Already had 2 audio shops have a crack at it :(

No offence dude but I wouldn't expect much mid bass out of a set of Alpines. You should also have axis control via your xovers ( Apline go on about how good they are so I am sure they have it ). That made a big difference with the Bostons as they are mounted very low in the doors. I set mine to be off axis. Do you live in Sydney?

[Mr ©harisma]

I am running boston S60 on front and back, one layer of dynamat to seal the speaker hole and one layer in the service holes. I found the biggest difference is having dynamat where the speaker is mounted. But still not getting the BASS I want.

I think I should try DIY a an MDF spacer, so that it is resting on something SOLID. wonder if that would help ??

I just tried bridging my fronts, EXTRA bASS instantly but louder engine Noise... MASSIVE HEAD ACHE !!!!

those S60's will need a lot of power to run loud due to their efficiency and woofer design. I had some older FS-60's and running them off the same Audison amp as the newer SL-60's, and the later are a lot louder and better sounding ( new tweeter helps ). The mid bass also has a lot of kick to it due to the woofer being very similar to the old Pro6.5. Its a bit late now but remember that you sit in the front, that is where you should spend the $$$.

Also when you bridge across channels you must remember that you THD will also double compared to if they where in stereo. Also I would mount them on an MDF spacer and silcone around the outside ( you want it airtight, all mids should be mounted this way ). To do your door properly you should MDF up the service holes as well by adding SD over the top is better than nothing. I might get a pic of my doors if I can find them.

[glidn]

nice clean boot work.

As for Soundofav6, you could check that polarity is set correctly,

or you can even try swapping the polarity of the tweeters to be opposite to that of the woofer.

This may all sound strange, but a ran 5 different components in my vr6.

the only ones that sounded full and bass and very nice kick, was a set of focals 165a1's but you cannot run a grill with them.

I also had the pioneer TSC1620 and TSC1625 in mine, they sounded nice but sounded a whole heap better by swapping the polarity over of the tweeters.

one other thing i did was use some silicon or gasket sealer, and sealed the door pocket to the door. Then also inserted some dacron filler only a little bit behind the speakers. Those 2 things made a world of difference.

Hope this all helps for you.

[Soundofav6]

Thanks for your input guys, so basically I need to have the the door pocket sealed, I did use a seringe and filled in some gaps with silicon, I felt air pumping out while I was driving. made a bit of difference

"Then also inserted some dacron filler only a little bit behind the speakers"
Does that mean I should fill in the massive hole behing where the speaker magnet sits?

Just one thing before I start sealing cracks and holes, are 6.5" woofers "volume sensitive" like subwoofers ? I would hate to chisel out fillers.

"dacron filler " is that a special type of filler ?

[glidn]

yeah general rule of thumb, 6" are also space sensetive, hence you end you installing more or less dacron behind it, yeah you can put the dacron directly behind the speaker over the hole.

one other thing you can try is this, cover the rear of the speaker with panty hose. but it has to be streched onto the back fo the speaker. That will trick the speaker into thinking it's in a larger box than it really is.

Generally it makes it think it in 2-3 times larger enclosure than it really is.

Hope this helps.

[Soundofav6]

one other thing you can try is this, cover the rear of the speaker with panty hose. but it has to be streched onto the back fo the speaker. That will trick the speaker into thinking it's in a larger box than it really is.

Generally it makes it think it in 2-3 times larger enclosure than it really is.

Hope this helps.


WOOo.. thats new.. so what happens if you have a bigger encloure?

JUstify this.... in the shop, they have the speakers display all mounted on wood, MDF with nothing behind it. but it sounds AWESOME. it's nothing like that in my car.

Could that also because the speakers are low in the car and mounted on ear level in the shop with in big encloused room ?

[Mr ©harisma]

Ok so the door, as you can see the stock door.

Then I added amost 1 sheet of deadener to the inner skin and placed a dynasorb pad directly behind the woofer. This will help stop the rear sound waves from bouncing around the door and interfearing with the next cycle. i.e. it stop cancellation.

Then I added a sheet to the outer skin and put a MDF spacer.. I then siliconed around the spacer and added a second layer of deadener around where the speaker is and over the spacer.

Lastly I added the woofer and wired it all up.

I wouldn't bother with dacron if possible. In a sealed enclosure if you make it larger you will decrease the -3db point i.e. it will play lower but at the expense of efficiency. Now since we are talking about mid bass, there is no reason why would really want them to play lower. If you want them to play lower, buy speakers that will do it ( Morel, Oz Audio, Dynaudio etc ). This is why we have a sub woofer. I wouldn't worry to much about having it in your sub enclosure either unless for some reason you can not build one big enough.

[Soundofav6]

I get ya.. thanks for your pics !!!
the thing is us mk3s we are one step behind, the speaker is mounted on the door card instead of the door. So I probably have to stablise the door card, that is sealing the door card.

So my first step, MDF a spacer for a solid mounting point. seal the spacer on door card. seal off all cracks on holes on door card. dynamat the door card ?

[glidn]

I get ya.. thanks for your pics !!!
the thing is us mk3s we are one step behind, the speaker is mounted on the door card instead of the door. So I probably have to stablise the door card, that is sealing the door card.

So my first step, MDF a spacer for a solid mounting point. seal the spacer on door card. seal off all cracks on holes on door card. dynamat the door card ?

Yeah i know, hence i gave you the advise i did, as that is exactly what i had to do in my vr6.

Mr ©harisma - as he said yes you would decrease the -3db point, but you ahve the choice of sound ok and blending or end up have a cruddy sound stage.

Soundofav6 - as you stated, Unfortunately this is generally why they sound good in the shop, it a wide open area alot less points to rebound off of. Also the parator board is usually very very sturdy again improving the sound, and last but not least the front and rear sound wave very very rarely ever meet. Therefore only letting you hear the music and sound waves coming from the front of the speaker.

[Mrk_Mickey]

I'm too lazy to figure it out guys, so could someone tell me quickly how to take the front and rear door trim all off? I'm about to put my new Kickers w/crossovers into the doors and need to remove whatever won't be used.:).

[Mr ©harisma]

Best thing is for some Dynaxorb or Focal Chant planes behind your woofers and deaden as much as you can to separate the front of the woofer from the back. Deadening the back of the woofer will help absorb some of the rear waves as well helping to create a chamber. Don't bother with Darcon. Its un-neccessary if you have decent tuning options via a deck / EQ or amp.

[glidn]

Best thing is for some Dynaxorb or Focal Chant planes behind your woofers and deaden as much as you can to separate the front of the woofer from the back. Deadening the back of the woofer will help absorb some of the rear waves as well helping to create a chamber. Don't bother with Darcon. Its un-neccessary if you have decent tuning options via a deck / EQ or amp.

Hey have you ever seen the speaker location of a mk3 in the door pocket.:confused:

I very much doubt he would be able to fit dynxorb or focal chant in there.
i could not hence i whent and installed dacron.
seriously it damn shallow.

As for removal of the door cards

pull the cover that the power window switch is in, there will be 2 screws be hind there. Then simply go around the edges of the door skin, and clip them off one by one. The chances are that the clips will break. Not to worry hiot glue gun and hot glue will fix that in about 1 minute. it's that easy and it get almost back to original strength.

You can choose to run new speaker wire, but seriously in the conncter type of the door i would not bother. You can use the factory wiring.

Just remember to remove the Tweeter on the dash out of the wiring.

And no that theres only low frequencies from the factory speaker with the tweeter inline.

Tweeter inself as a cap on it to cut of frequencies i think i was around 3000ish mark if i can remember correctly.

Hope this helps.

[Mr ©harisma]

Dude a dynasorb pad is about 4 or 5mm thick.. make room lol.

[glidn]

Dude a dynasorb pad is about 4 or 5mm thick.. make room lol.
haha

yeah i know i have it in my mk4 golf doors.

well i could not as my focal 165A1's magnet pressed up againts the door skin. behind the pocket.

[Mr ©harisma]

do you per chance have a picture of these Mk3 doors?

Perhaps a pod may be an option.

[glidn]

do you per chance have a picture of these Mk3 doors?

Perhaps a pod may be an option.

um not sure i'll have to try and dig a picture up, only have a picture of the components already installed.

Door pod is surely possible, i started making a pod to except 2 6's or 8 and 6 or what ever.

But only finished the rear never finished off the pods, but the idea would have been to simply un screw the factory door pocket/speaker mount. Then simply slot these in there with your favourite choice of speakers.

but i guess if i had too i could finish them off.

[ScienceVR6]

um not sure i'll have to try and dig a picture up, only have a picture of the components already installed.

Door pod is surely possible, i started making a pod to except 2 6's or 8 and 6 or what ever.

But only finished the rear never finished off the pods, but the idea would have been to simply un screw the factory door pocket/speaker mount. Then simply slot these in there with your favourite choice of speakers.

but i guess if i had too i could finish them off.
I am playing with the idea of door pods to take a pair of 6.5" but to look as stock as posible. Maybe cut and shut a couple of sets of door trims to do so.

[glidn]

I am playing with the idea of door pods to take a pair of 6.5" but to look as stock as posible. Maybe cut and shut a couple of sets of door trims to do so.

What you can do, or at least what i have done so far.
is the following.
make a mould of the door skin with the pocket taken off.

Then you can merely make a moulding of the factory door pocket.
cut the front off just in front of the little plastic brace on it. You can than make a decent sized pod and have it looking farely stock too.

Hope this helps.

[Soundofav6]

HEy glidn, you have a pic of your work ?? LOVE to see.

JUst a general question. When people make pods, I see some have a 4" next to the 6.5". What is the reason for that ?? Do they usually run the 4" with the same crossover ??

[glidn]

HEy glidn, you have a pic of your work ?? LOVE to see.

JUst a general question. When people make pods, I see some have a 4" next to the 6.5". What is the reason for that ?? Do they usually run the 4" with the same crossover ??

Hey Man

yeah i'll take pics of waht i got to give you an idea, then you can go further with it.

As for 6.5 and 4 in the same pod. It really depends sometimes there are in the same box some times they are not. As for crossover, yeah generally they all run from same crossover. Otherwise they use active crossovers then manually set the frequency ranges for each individual speaker.

it really depends on how you want your system to sound i guess.
Some people run dual 6.5/7" in the front or even an 8" and 5"/3" and tweeter.

I guess it really dependant on how crazy you are willing to go. To get the sound you are happy with.

[ScienceVR6]

A mate of mine, Jon Suvatskis, is 6 times god of auto salon. One of his clinants cars, he ran a pair of HiFi 10" drivers in each door, with a 6" doing mids. he had ambiant tweeters in the kick panels, and full tweeters in thedash. All of it was run active. 1 amp channel per speaker! Fugging loud, and sounded increadible. But the door trims where completly custom, and made getting in and out of the car rather difficult, and the 10"s slighly intruded on the drivers seat!

Thats what happens when you go too far.

This post serves on purpouse but to show what happens when you go too far.

[Soundofav6]

thanks for the reply guys.

Over the weekend I places my speakers on the kick panel, I discovered sound I never knew I had. When I have time I think I will DIY a kick panel for the 6.5" woofer and custom mount the 4" on an angle at the passenger, hopefully snap speaker grill back on for an OEM look, most probably relocating my tweeters on the A pillar.

SCience: whats a ambiant tweeter/ full tweeter ??

glidn: whats a active cross over ?? PLease shoe me the photos too.

So you guys reckon I can use the same cross over for my 4 inch ?

[Mr ©harisma]

Not getting into it to much but you will have 3 problems when staging your fronts. Height, width and depth. Now mounting the tweeters high in the sails or A pillar solves the problem of height but lacks width and depth ( channel separation ). Mounting the tweeter properly high in the kicks will solve width and depth but not height. So ideally what you want is a combo of both.

To best acheive this you would mount your main tweeters in the kicks and provide them with a lot of power. This will give you depth and width. Then the use of Ambient tweeters ( feed them minimal power ) will give you added height. This is basic and if you are genuinely interested I can give you more info on why and how this is?

Active xover means that each speaker has its own xover and channel of power from an amp. This gives you more precise tuning of xover Hz and roll off plus power to help blend in all the components of the front stage. To have a 3 way front stage running active you will need to either have very good xovers in your amp or consult jaycar into helping you select the correct inline cap and accessories to make your own xovers.

[Soundofav6]

HOLY MOLY !! the more I get into this the more I don't know... But the more fun it gets but more charlleging it becomes to satisfy my OEM theme.

From what you said Mr ©harisma..
* I should have the the kick panel component amped with comfortable highest gain.
* Tweeter on A pillar should not be so bright, perhaps run off head unit front channel. ( That is bascially getting another set of component)

So now.. where should I use the 4" .. I don't want to throw it away ... on the dash just doesn;t sound so nice after all. Should I mount it on the kick as well ?? would that be too FULL ON, I only want nice sound not bling bling auto saloon.

[Mr ©harisma]

I should have the the kick panel component amped with comfortable highest gain.
Tweeter on A pillar should not be so bright, perhaps run off head unit front channel. ( That is bascially getting another set of component)

If you are going to run a ambient tweeter then yeah. You will still need to run the ambient tweeter off an amp because the headunit ( well most ) wont give you as much, if any, control over the sound.

Its common sense, if you mount your tweeters on the sail or A pillar 1 tweeter is going to be a lot closer to you than the other. This will send your channel separation to the shyt. It will also lack depth dude to upper Hz being so directional. Usually if you are only running say a 2 way component set, I recommend that you mount the tweeter high in the kick. Staging is a bit low however I have my stock tweeter grills still there and most people think the stock tweeters are still working. Give it enough power and it gets nice and loud.

So now.. where should I use the 4" .. I don't want to throw it away ... on the dash just doesn;t sound so nice after all. Should I mount it on the kick as well ?? would that be too FULL ON, I only want nice sound not bling bling auto saloon

Best 4 way set I have heard was:
Morel 9inch in the door
Morel 4inch in the lower kick ( it was still in sight if you where sitting in the seat )
Morel Supremo tweeter mounted mid kick panel
Morel 1inch ambient tweeter in the A pillar

The 9 inches where run off a 2 channel amp, the mids and supremo where run off there own channel of a 4 channel amp and the ambient had its own 2 channel amp. The guy also made custom xovers with 24db / oct roll off to maximise the potiential of all his speakers. Now you don't have to get that hard core but yeah, its quite hard to get it perfect with adding more speakers....

[glidn]

As mr charisma state, regarding channel seperation is true,

In the MK3 espcially it's bad if you do that. As for Kickpods and all that if you can do it then do. If not then maybe you can try this.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00074-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00077-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00078-1.jpg

But instead of where i mounted the tweeter move it on the angle bit just above the mid. I never took photo's of my install. But i do have some pics of the Doorpods i have started with.

[glidn]

Pictures as requested

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00225-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00229-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00337-1.jpg

[glidn]

showing the doorpod and speaker space.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00453-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00452-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00451-1.jpg

As you can see the pics of the second photo. You can build the Pod out to that point for 2 reasons.
First it will give you around 3-5 litres of space for the mids. Or if you want to do dual mids or 3 way.
Second reason, that you still get to use a door pocket in the car.

The size of this pods applies to the 3dr and 5dr golf.

Hopefully Mr Charisma can sort of see the little bit of space there surely's not behind the mid.

Hope this clears up the confusion.

[Mr ©harisma]

Yeah I can see it, door pod or don't expect to much mid bass. :D

[Soundofav6]

THanks for the PICs Glidn

But I am bit confused to what a door pod is, so this freshly made fibre glass .........

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2008/03/DSC00229-1.jpg


IS A DOOR POD??? So bascially you molded another door ??
OR this fibre glass is connected to the metal frame and door card is snapped back ontop ????
I think I really need to see the finished product to understand this.

On another note, today I cut an MDF ring for the 6.5" as a kick panel, I realise it is WAY too BIG, the "ideal" position for the kick is getting in the way in the the pedal.
So similarly to a kick position and most feasible/ economical way is to make a spacer to have the door speaker tilted, ie protruding out, aiming at passenger. DO you guys think this would work.. ??
I also played with the 4" at the kick position too, it sounded wrong at different axis to the 6.5" at the door.

So perhaps, mounting the 4" and 6.5" on same axial protruding on an angle at the door ????

[glidn]

the pic you have there is merely the rear side of the doorpod. As the mk3 door is kind of a crappy design, the 2nd photo i showed that would be your standard door pocket. But think of that built out to the black line.

Then you can angle your speakers and build it to that. Then merely screw the whole pod to the door skin. Then once door skin is back on the door. Take 2 to 3 screws and screw them all the way throught the pod into the actual door. That way you get the proper bracing. Or you could put a wooden spacer behind the door skin, then merely bolt the doorpod / doorskin to the spacer. That way you still get structural rigidity.

if this make more sense, thats great. If not. I dont really have any intention really of finishing the door pod as i dont own a MK3 anymore.

But who know's i may finish them if i'm going to be playing around with one of our eurosport friends mk3's.

[Soundofav6]

lol ... my imagination is not so bright tonight I am a bit lost.

I was actually looking forward to see the finished product and be inspired.

Anyhow so you reckon if I angle the speaker on the door slightly would work? CAn you think of any flaws ? as in stability of some sort ??

[Soundofav6]

Glidn: I was looking at another forum and found this.
http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum/showthread.php?t=67033

were you in the process/ on the lines of making something like this ??

[glidn]

lol ... my imagination is not so bright tonight I am a bit lost.

I was actually looking forward to see the finished product and be inspired.

Anyhow so you reckon if I angle the speaker on the door slightly would work? CAn you think of any flaws ? as in stability of some sort ??

Thanks for the link, the guy has some really good gear.


As far as angling the speaker towards you, that mean on AXIS if pointing towards you or OFF-AXIS not pointing towards you.

As for that strangely enough some speakers sound better off-axis then on axis. I guess it's more they play the flaws of the recordings therefore you can hear them clear as day light on axis but not off axis.

Depending on what happens i may yet finish them, biggest problem is i have to finish them off, but to a specific speaker. All thou many a speakers could sound ok to good in them but again it dependant on going 2 way or 3 way or dual mid bass. I realyl dont know, as i got rid of all my high end front components. Use to have Infinity Kapp Perfect 6.1's. I was gonna build them in Dual 6" mid in front. But sold the car before being able to.