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kamold
09-03-2021, 09:28 PM
This has been an on again/off again project now for about a year.
Knowing what I do now it would have been done and dusted long ago, but you only really learn by doing right?

First up I'll post the thank yous to those who have assisted me in this project -
David from Pacortech and Alex from UGP
Tuggeranong Transmission
avwboy

Required parts for VR6 install:
DQ500 from a PQ platform car - eg Transporter T5/T6, Tiguan including transfer case (TDI has the same 1-3 ratios as TSI, with longer 4th-7th. Final ratio difference is around 9% longer for TDI)
Driveshafts left (5N0407763F) + right (5N0407764F)
Starter motor 02E911023SX
16 pin TCU connector 8P0971499A
Pendulum mount 3C0199855M
90 degree coolant pipes for trans cooler
10 hole dual mass flywheel 03H105266E
Flywheel bolts x10 N90665001
DQ500 clutch cover
Custom gearbox software
Custom bowden cable mount
Custom milled bell housing (not required for inline 4/5 engines)
Custom adapter plates for bell housing (not required for inline 4/5 engines)


Once the research was done I sourced a Tiguan TSI gearbox from a wreck with 45k on it along with driveshafts and starter motor. Gearbox code NZT.
The bell housing, adapter plates and shift adapter were supplied from a guy in Europe who unfortunately no longer supplies them.

52695
modified bell housing with adapter plates attached to gearbox

52696
Bell housing

52697
gearset

52698
Back of the bell housing

52699
Timing chains - gearbox was out so perfect opportunity to renew chains and guides

52700
Clutch basket with top cover removed

52701
Modified shift linkage

52702
New dualmass flywheel


After the initial attempt at install which you can read about in the Ross-tech thread here (https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/18422/), this got put on the back burner while I pondered the future of the project. It was a big disappointment to myself and to Dave and UPG who had put a lot of time and effort into trying to get this working for me but it wasn't looking promising.
After a few weeks of frantically searching world-wide for a solution, and taking out and inspecting the clutches, replacing the main solenoids etc I had to get my car back on the road so had to get the DQ250 back in the car (with some new clutches and another mechatronic).
Fast forward 12 months...

Eventually the decision was made to try again, but this time in a test mule of avwboy's so that I wouldn't have my car off the road again whilst trying to work through the issues (a wise decision as it transpired).
In the mule the symptoms were the same. Can't complete basic settings and fault indicates an obstruction on the K1 clutch.

I took the gearbox down to Tuggeranong Transmission who identified the source of all my woes - a rookie mistake in assembling the clutch basket.
They also removed the custom bell housing and checked all the internals before reassembly - just to be sure.


52703
Engine and gearbox ready for install #3 in the test mule

52704
The source of all my woes

52705
it sits in here on the inner clutches. It's keyed but you can still put it in out of alignment - check this!!!

52706
Rotate it until it slots into place. Do this AFTER the clutch basket is dropped into the top of the gearbox. THEN assemble the rest and attach all the circlips and NEW top clutch cover.


The keyed thrust washer (not sure the correct terminology) pictured CAN be installed out of alignment, whilst still allowing the rest of the clutch basket to be fully assembled including all the circlips. However it results in the K1 clutch from not being able to engage.
This needs to be checked with the rest of the basket seated in place in the gearbox, not on the bench. THEN assemble the remaining inner clutch components above it.

After having a good talk to the guys at Tuggeranong trans about the project and my mistake I was confident that the gearbox itself was ready to go. So I made the decision to go straight into my car, skipping yet another test fitting in the mule.

After a full day of work with avwboy (after already having done 2 complete installs in testing) the gearbox was again installed and the moment of truth arrived....basic settings in ODIS. This time it completed first go!
Time for the first test drive! Now around 10pm...

Got out onto the road and slowly drove through the gears....shifts were smooth but there was something not right...the car was wobbling pretty substantially even at low speeds.
Got back onto the hoist and after some poking and prodding discovered that the right driveshaft was...shafted.
It looked like it was damaged in the crash. Looked ok externally but the inner CV was in bad shape. Some temporary repairs involving zip ties (now approaching midnight, avwboy is like Macgyver with problem solving) and the next test drive was much more successful - some minor oscillations around 60-80kmh but otherwise all good at highway speeds. I could actually drive the car back home with a DQ500!!!

A few hundred kms of testing and a few tweaks to the software and it is working really well. Silky smooth shifts and and even more capable cruising car. Highway speeds have the rpm dropped by about 450 with the 7th gear and consumption down about 1L/100kms.

Replaced the damaged driveshaft and as well as front wheel bearings (as one was getting a bit noisy and probably due now given the car has 160k on it) and the slight wobble is now gone and car drives like a dream!

kamold
09-03-2021, 09:54 PM
Repin information from 20 pin DQ250 plug to 16 pin DQ500

52707

Sharkie
10-03-2021, 09:54 AM
Awesome work Julian!

I know who I will hit up for advice and help when it comes to the 2 x transplants I am planning in the future.

Passat my07
10-03-2021, 11:14 AM
Unbelievable work! Has this been done many times worldwide?
We need an index to your upgrades.

kamold
10-03-2021, 11:45 AM
Yeah there are a few R36s (and R32s, and others) with DQ500 retrofits. They are all part of big power builds like HGP twin turbo setups etc.
I don't have the powah, but I now have a good solid reliable base should I ever have the funds to go down that route...

There is a link my sig to my 'build' thread. One day when I have time (ie never) I will try and make a consolidated list with direct links.

tigger73
10-03-2021, 12:57 PM
Wow! Great to see what some time and perseverance can do.

7 speed is much better for cruising than the 6 speed plus the gear ratios would have been designed for a larger wheel/tyre combo which would I would have thought would cause edge to rise??

Anyway great project and sad to hear that all the parts are no longer available.

It would be a good upgrade for anyone looking to do stage 3/4/5 builds


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MMR36
16-03-2021, 10:56 PM
Great work and perseverance indeed, now you just need the 600 plus HP for 3.5 to 100k!

kamold
18-03-2021, 08:56 PM
Great work and perseverance indeed, now you just need the 600 plus HP for 3.5 to 100k!That's not going to happen.
But if a supercharger fell into my engine bay I wouldn't kick it out

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MMR36
18-03-2021, 11:16 PM
That's not going to happen.
But if a supercharger fell into my engine bay I wouldn't kick it out

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Hah... well then that's not a No!

minorityracer
27-03-2021, 07:21 AM
Amazing job.
Where did you get your custom bell housing from?

kamold
27-03-2021, 07:30 AM
From Andreas Taufner in Austria.
You can try and contact him on Instagram. I have been told he isn't making them any more but that may not be the case.
Or you can get them here:
VR6 / R32 / R36 to DSG DQ500 NZS adapter - Racing Custom Parts (https://racingcustomparts.com/produkt/vr6-r32-r36-to-dsg-dq500-nzs-adapter/)

CFiorucci
31-05-2021, 08:12 PM
Hi, is your car equipped with haldex? Im in the middle of the same swap, dq500 to seat leon fr 1p 2.0tsi, originally fitted with mq350.
I’m going to have it only fwd until eventually sourcing a rear subrame, but i dont know for sure if it will run fine leaving the cardan shaft out of the ecuation

kamold
01-06-2021, 09:09 PM
Honestly I don't know the answer to that question...but my feeling is that the mechatronic won't really care...it will just be spinning there without any mass attached. That is as long as you can modify the DSG software to ignore the missing messages from the Haldex.

heromanni
27-07-2021, 07:27 PM
Hello, great work!

few questions about the conversion

what modifications are needed for the bell housing?

What is the adapter plate thickness, did you measure it?

are the haldex gear ratios same on your vehicle as in dq500?


Good info on the flywheel, no need for custom part there

kamold
28-07-2021, 05:34 PM
I didn't do the bell housing modification. There are companies that offer these services.
Haldex is not changed. It doesn't have gears, just clutches. The rear diff is not changed.
Do you mean the bevel box/transfer case? That is changed to the DQ500 version.

heromanni
02-08-2021, 05:19 PM
okay, I try to find out the thickness for the adapter, I have a friend who is able to fabricate such adapter.

I mean rear axle gear ratio, does it differ to the new transfer case, do rear wheels spin same speed as front wheels, does the haldex spin all the time?

kamold
02-08-2021, 07:37 PM
Next time I'm under the car I will measure the thickness.
The rear diff doesn't need to change. There is no issue with the Haldex.

heromanni
02-08-2021, 09:01 PM
good to know about the rear diff
53192
actually came to my mind, is the adapter and bell housing done so that same amount of housing is machined off as the adapter is thick?

Looking at the pictures you have shared, it might be so53191

kamold
02-08-2021, 09:05 PM
Yes it's to come up to the same point.
You need to have your fabricator look at both bell housings and also pics of the available products and I'm sure they can figure it out

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ISTRiderCZR
05-02-2022, 10:14 AM
Hey mate, awesome work. Today i finished to install a dq500(RS3 8P) in my Golf MK5 (and did a FWD conversion), and i was surfing the net to find out if somebody did the same thing. And i came across your Ross Tech thread. Awesome work soon I will do a thread too, to help others.

MIG
24-01-2023, 05:46 PM
Doing the research myself on this at the moment, and plenty of written-off Tiguans at pretty reasonable prices.
Any way of telling the gearbox code without paying for ErinWin? Auction sites have pics of the compliance plates but not the PR-Codes.

Or would going for a 5N Tiguan TSI 4Motion be OK to work with?

kamold
26-01-2023, 11:44 AM
The ratios are different in the petrol and diesels. 1-4 are the same in both but the diesel has longer 5th-7th which gives a higher vmax and lower rpm crusing in 7th.
I have the TSI gearbox. If I had my time again I'd probably opt for the diesel just to get that further drop in rpm on the motorway.
The PR codes aren't really necessary. But if you have a VIN I can look it up for you.

MIG
26-01-2023, 03:34 PM
Well, if that is the case, TDI 4Motion Tiguans are a bit easier to find, so that would be good; do you not think the ~9% longer final drive will lug the engine at all?
Although I do think the B7 had a longer final drive compared to your R36 to start with, what is your current RPM @ 100Km\h in 7th?

kamold
26-01-2023, 07:13 PM
At 100 currently it sits at around 2800 I think from memory.
The issue I can see with the diesel gearbox potentially is that at 110 it might end up dropping down to 6th and then back to 7th a bit too frequently.

MIG
26-01-2023, 08:56 PM
I am trying to pin down the ratios to see how it would run; getting the tune right to avoid gear hunting should be possible.

Going by the Multivan spec sheet, it should be the below table, putting the RPM @ 100 at 1860 in 7th and 2200 in 6th.

Getriebe 7-Gang-DSG 7-Gang-DSG
i Gang 1. / 2. / 3. / 4. - Gang 3,56 / 2,53 / 1,59 / 0,94 3,56 / 2,53 / 1,59 / 0,94
5./ 6. / 7. / R. - Gang 0,71 / 0,69 / 0,57 / 2,97 0,71 / 0,69 / 0,57 / 2,97
i Achse 1 79:17 = 4,647 79:17 = 4,647
i Achse 2 79:20 = 3,950 79:20 = 3,950
i Achse R 79:17 = 4,647 79:17 = 4,647

54967

kamold
27-01-2023, 02:08 PM
At 100kmh GPS speed in 7th I'm at 2050rpm so 1860 for the longer ratios sounds right.

Regulo09
20-03-2024, 12:17 PM
Hi mate, pretty good job performed!!!. You mentioned a PQ plataform of the DQ500, what happens if I use a MQB plataform transmission? It will work?

kamold
25-03-2024, 10:27 AM
Hi mate, pretty good job performed!!!. You mentioned a PQ plataform of the DQ500, what happens if I use a MQB plataform transmission? It will work?No. Mqb can messaging is totally different.
You would need to firstly flash the eeprom and flash of the mechatronic to PQ software on the bench using a suitable tool eg PCMFlash.
This should work in theory but I have never done it myself, worst case you brick the mecha and then have a nice paperweight....

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Regulo09
26-03-2024, 02:23 PM
Thanks for fast response. I have a situation with my swap, the mechatronic that I have is the 0BH927711C but VCDS says software is from a 5.2 engine (I assume is from R8) how can I find the right software to make it work? Because right now the ECU doesn't see the transmission. I think first I have to reprogram mech unit and them do the tune? Where I can buy the right software so ECU cab recognize the tranny?

kamold
26-03-2024, 04:04 PM
What car is it in? Some background information here wouldn't go astray..

Regulo09
26-03-2024, 07:21 PM
VW MK5 R32 turbo

kamold
26-03-2024, 07:34 PM
Best bet should be using PQ RSQ3 software. Will need to be modified by a tuner for correct ratios for your gearbox etc.
You'd need PCMFlash with direct TCU harness and Scanmatik Pro 2 interface to flash PQ software and eeprom.
Ideally also ODIS Engineering (which can use SM2 in passthru) to flash parameters and possibly different software versions if needed.

Regulo09
26-03-2024, 07:40 PM
Thank you 👍

kamold
27-03-2024, 04:25 PM
But again, I've never done this (flashing MQB mecha to PQ) and haven't seen it documented anywhere (also haven't looked, so would recommend trying to find it).
Have flashed plenty of other MQB hardware modules to the PQ software versions, but never anything as expensive as a mechatronics. And certainly not a module that contains immobilizer data.

Techguy
21-04-2024, 11:21 PM
nice thread, alot of time and work has gone into this build, I've just completed a tiguan dq500 mqb to s3 cjx mqb,

with regards to the dq500 pq/mqb flashing back and forth, yes you can to a certain extent. if the mechatronics is the original made in germany 711c/711g it can support both pq and early mqb vehicles. if you have the newer 0de/ogc 711g/h this can only support mqb vehicles. i flash them daily for transmission shops and convert them to dq381/dq500 depending on the vehicle.
flashing via odis/pcmflash/flex/whatever is possible and immo only matters when you are flashing via obd. :)

Julsvr6
17-03-2025, 05:53 AM
Hi kamold, first of all great write up! I came across it as I was searching for an error code that I was getting that you seem to have also had in the past? When performing basic settings I’m getting “aborted due to safety reasons main reason 0 sub reason 91.
This is on my vw transporter with a dq500 after fitting a new spider gear, clutch packs and new alloy oil tubes. Was it the misaligned part inside the clutch basket that gave you this error?
Thank you 🙏
Juls

kamold
17-03-2025, 07:50 AM
Yes it was.
The spacer (can't think of the correct term) needs to be properly aligned.
It's possible to fully assemble the clutch basket and cover with it out of alignment which will result in being unable to engage 3rd..

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Julsvr6
17-03-2025, 09:43 PM
Thank you for confirming I really appreciate it !

Julsvr6
17-03-2025, 10:53 PM
Yes it was.
The spacer (can't think of the correct term) needs to be properly aligned.
It's possible to fully assemble the clutch basket and cover with it out of alignment which will result in being unable to engage 2nd.

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Just a quick one, did it engage but slip badly or not engage at all ?

kamold
18-03-2025, 05:47 AM
Could take off, would slip of course. Shift to 2nd was ok. Then try to shift to 3rd and would disengage and fault

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