Towing a Camper Trailer

[Rocket36]

So who tows a camper trailer?

The VW towbar has a low ball limit, 90kg from memory, which isn't great.

Looking for a decent after market towbar setup so I can actually tow something like a Jayco Expanda 14.44-4. Because the VW one won't let me.

Cheers.

[doc_777]

The tow bar limits set by the vehicle manufacturer can’t be increased by an aftermarket tow bar manufacturer. You are stuck at 90kg tow ball mass.

It sucks that VW upgraded the Tiguan’s tow ball mass numbers but didn’t budge on the Passat - and it’s the same MQB platform - so I’m guessing the engineering considerations would be similar

[Rocket36]

I'm sorry what? The CAR manufacturer sets the TOW BALL limit for ALL the tow balls in the world now do they? What am I missing here?

How does this Swift Expression have less than 90kg ball weight?
Passat Towing Tandem Axle Caravan (https://youtu.be/4BaA2MyrbIY)

[doc_777]

That’s the law in Australia. Been that way for about 20 or more years. Maximum towball download, maximum braked, and maximum UNbraked mass (max 750kg - many vehicles are less) are all set by the manufacturer of the vehicle. Any towbar manufacturer can specify maximums UP TO AND INCLUDING those maximums, but not greater.

[Rocket36]

So this is yet another stupid antiquated Australian thing? *sigh* Like when ISOFIX car seats were actually illegal! Watching that video you'd think the Passat has no issues towing a camper trailer.

[doc_777]

Dunno which jurisdictions that law exists in. But seeing as though in the UK the towing limits on the Tiguan weren’t upgraded (as they were in Australia), I reckon that law exists (in effectively similar form) throughout the UK and the EU as well.

[Rocket36]

Dunno which jurisdictions that law exists in. But seeing as though in the UK the towing limits on the Tiguan weren’t upgraded (as they were in Australia), I reckon that law exists (in effectively similar form) throughout the UK and the EU as well.

So how is that Passat able to two that Swift tandem caravan?

[doc_777]

So how is that Passat able to two that Swift tandem caravan?

not sure what you mean? Plenty of Euro caravans have what many Australians think are small towball weights - 75kg to 90kg region isn’t unusual at all for many of their tandem vans. They believe in centralised mass as one of the primary keys to caravan stability.

[Rocket36]

They believe in centralised mass as one of the primary keys to caravan stability.

Um that's because it is! Are you saying that's not how it is in Australia? I mean it's fairly basic engineering to get a trailer to be evenly balanced when it's horizontal to the ground (single or double axle) to the point where you shouldn't need to put the jockey wheel down on double axles. Then when you hitch it up, you make the necessary adjustments to the hitch setup to two horizontally. The tow car should be pulling, not holding one end off the ground.

[Hillbilly]

Um that's because it is! Are you saying that's not how it is in Australia? I mean it's fairly basic engineering to get a trailer to be evenly balanced when it's horizontal to the ground (single or double axle) to the point where you shouldn't need to put the jockey wheel down on double axles. Then when you hitch it up, you make the necessary adjustments to the hitch setup to two horizontally. The tow car should be pulling, not holding one end off the ground.

Hmm you obviously arent up to speed with towing dynamics are you If you have no weight on the ball the van is subject to sway and yaw and that very fact got three people killed a few years ago

Read this and learn Jong Coronial Report.rtf - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lPZhhSuMItMAF_W6IasmKvXO4_9qdRYL/view?usp=sharing)

and this perfectly tells you why your theory is wrong


Watch this video and you may understand

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8)


What SHOULD be and what needs to be are two different things

[Hillbilly]

That’s the law in Australia. Been that way for about 20 or more years. Maximum towball download, maximum braked, and maximum UNbraked mass (max 750kg - many vehicles are less) are all set by the manufacturer of the vehicle. Any towbar manufacturer can specify maximums UP TO AND INCLUDING those maximums, but not greater.

You are factually incorrect. A classic example was in 1996 when Toyota intoduced a higher limit for the vehicle and a new bar with a capacity of 3500kg It also fitted the 1995 model which only had a 2500kg tow limit.

They refused to up that limit forever

A towbar manufacturer can make a towbar that exceeds a vehicles capacity and you can fit it BUT the ADR RULES say this



The towing limits of a vehicle are

" The limit set by the manufacturer of the vehicle or the Towbar maker WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER"

So Vehicle limit 1500kg towbar 1800kg Limit is 1500kg

Vehicle limit 1500kg Towbar 1200kg Limit is 1200kg

The MAXIMUM BALL weight is the limit set by the manufacturer

Vehicle limit 90kg Towbar 150kg Limit is 90 Kg

That is the law

Euro vans are built differently and so get a lower ball weight. They are also built lighter using different materials tobe able to do this.


Also a vehicle may tow a van with a higher ATM than its legal limit provided that at the time of towing the van does NOT EXCEED the vehicles towing limit.. That is not fully loaded.

Have had a fair bit of towing experience with a 25ft 3000kg van on and 18 month trip around the country

[Rocket36]

In terms of towing dynamics and safety, the safest is for the hitching point to be over the rear wheels. This was figured out very early on with trucks and has become the standard. Also 5th wheel towing.

In terms of weight distribution and yawing, having caravan weight focused over the axle(s) of the caravan is the safest. Of course there has to be some weight on the tow ball, but this should be minimal. I think it must just be a case of Australia being behind the 8 ball yet again.

Caravan Stability Demonstration (https://youtu.be/PFzrWHTG5e8)

[Hillbilly]

In terms of towing dynamics and safety, the safest is for the hitching point to be over the rear wheels. This was figured out very early on with trucks and has become the standard. Also 5th wheel towing.

In terms of weight distribution and yawing, having caravan weight focused over the axle(s) of the caravan is the safest. Of course there has to be some weight on the tow ball, but this should be minimal. I think it must just be a case of Australia being behind the 8 ball yet again.

Caravan Stability Demonstration (https://youtu.be/PFzrWHTG5e8)

You didnt read my post did you as I linked to that video previously A 10% minimum is suggested as safe for an Aussie van

My loaded weight was 2965 and ball weight was 310 with a WDH and it travelled lovely. Without the WDH it was a pig and unsafe

[Rocket36]

I'd use a WDH regardless of the van type. It just makes everything ride a whole lot better. (and therefore safer)

OK, who arbitrarily says it must be 10%? Because a percentage is exponential! Which is ridiculous. A 5,000kg trailer (towed by a RAM 3500 for example) doesn't need 500kg worth of downward pressure on the ball to be "safe".

[Hillbilly]

I'd use a WDH regardless of the van type. It just makes everything ride a whole lot better. (and therefore safer)

OK, who arbitrarily says it must be 10%? Because a percentage is exponential! Which is ridiculous. A 5,000kg trailer (towed by a RAM 3500 for example) doesn't need 500kg worth of downward pressure on the ball to be "safe".

Well all I can say is that I have had experience and you havent it seems so i will leave it at that as you seem to know it all. You wont need a WDH with a1400kg van anyway and you would rip the arse out of a Passat using one

[Rocket36]

Well all I can say is that I have had experience and you havent it seems so i will leave it at that as you seem to know it all. You wont need a WDH with a1400kg van anyway and you would rip the arse out of a Passat using one

LOL! Explain how I would "rip the arse out of a Passat" using a WDH? Using a WDH improves the towing abilities of cars. Hell my old man used to tow his 20" trailer sailer behind his FWD Verada sedan back in the day and without a WDH he would have had NO TRACTION.

I don't claim to know it all, but I do claim to have some common sense. :)

[Hillbilly]

LOL! Explain how I would "rip the arse out of a Passat" using a WDH? Using a WDH improves the towing abilities of cars. Hell my old man used to tow his 20" trailer sailer behind his FWD Verada sedan back in the day and without a WDH he would have had NO TRACTION.

I don't claim to know it all, but I do claim to have some common sense. :) Because a WDH correctly applied puts additional stress on the towbar and mountings and Im sure a Passat is not designed to take the stress of a van going through a spoon drain or similar..

Read up about Nisan Xtrails that had the problem and it literally ripped the towbars out of the chassis. Get on the Caravanners Forum and ask them. All the experts are on there and discuss/argue about this very question which gets asked at least twice a week.

Dont go there any more as its groundhog day every day

[Jondalar]

The RVMA has a long history of saying you need a 10% ball weight, but this is unproven and most Euro vans only have 5% or less. The video you shared actually proved that centralised mass is what's needed for stability, not ball weight...


Hmm you obviously arent up to speed with towing dynamics are you If you have no weight on the ball the van is subject to sway and yaw and that very fact got three people killed a few years ago

Read this and learn Jong Coronial Report.rtf - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lPZhhSuMItMAF_W6IasmKvXO4_9qdRYL/view?usp=sharing)

and this perfectly tells you why your theory is wrong


Watch this video and you may understand

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8)


What SHOULD be and what needs to be are two different things

[doc_777]

Um that's because it is! Are you saying that's not how it is in Australia? I mean it's fairly basic engineering to get a trailer to be evenly balanced when it's horizontal to the ground (single or double axle) to the point where you shouldn't need to put the jockey wheel down on double axles. Then when you hitch it up, you make the necessary adjustments to the hitch setup to two horizontally. The tow car should be pulling, not holding one end off the ground.

no, that’s not what i’m saying - what I inferred is that athe euros believe it, and have followed through with action.

However if aus van manufacturers believed it, you wouldn’t see so many front kitchens, rear en-suite etc. you don’t see many euro vans wth towing stability issues, but you see plenty of aus manufactured vans with sway problems - despite the so-called ‘10% rule’ which some people preach.

i’ve got a few towing runs on the board...

[doc_777]

You are factually incorrect. A classic example was in 1996 when Toyota intoduced a higher limit for the vehicle and a new bar with a capacity of 3500kg It also fitted the 1995 model which only had a 2500kg tow limit.

They refused to up that limit forever

A towbar manufacturer can make a towbar that exceeds a vehicles capacity and you can fit it BUT the ADR RULES say this



The towing limits of a vehicle are

" The limit set by the manufacturer of the vehicle or the Towbar maker WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER"

So Vehicle limit 1500kg towbar 1800kg Limit is 1500kg

Vehicle limit 1500kg Towbar 1200kg Limit is 1200kg

The MAXIMUM BALL weight is the limit set by the manufacturer

Vehicle limit 90kg Towbar 150kg Limit is 90 Kg

That is the law

Euro vans are built differently and so get a lower ball weight. They are also built lighter using different materials tobe able to do this.


Also a vehicle may tow a van with a higher ATM than its legal limit provided that at the time of towing the van does NOT EXCEED the vehicles towing limit.. That is not fully loaded.

Have had a fair bit of towing experience with a 25ft 3000kg van on and 18 month trip around the country

not sure how you can say I’m factually wrong, when what you wrote supports exactly what I said LOL. You seemed to pickup on me not saying that you can’t TOW more than specified by the vehicle manufacturer, but ignored the rest. Are you secretly a member of the caravaners forum?

one van one one trip. How sweet. Two boat shops in my family, that’s where I did my trade. Been towing since 17 - and until 30 (that’s 29 years ago) towed pretty much every day of my working life. Since moving on, i’ve owned 2 boats, 1 camper, 3 caravans. Last one was a 3500kg bestie behind a Y62 Patrol. So you’re not the only person here who knows about towing.

[doc_777]

Because a WDH correctly applied puts additional stress on the towbar and mountings and Im sure a Passat is not designed to take the stress of a van going through a spoon drain or similar..

Read up about Nisan Xtrails that had the problem and it literally ripped the towbars out of the chassis. Get on the Caravanners Forum and ask them. All the experts are on there and discuss/argue about this very question which gets asked at least twice a week.

Dont go there any more as its groundhog day every day


While I whole heartedly agree with your comments about the physical forces involved with WDH use being massive, I would absolutely disagree with trying to get any useful information out of the caravaners forum. Such an argumentative, nitpicking bunch of self-professed experts who seem to change their opinions based on the wind direction. Trying to get a straight answer there? Might as well try and hold back the tide, or prevent the sun from rising. They are an elitist, self righteous bunch who will heap abuse and derision on anyone who doesn’t fit what they see as the perfect mould. And that mould better be a free-camping grey nomad, because if you like caravan parks or euro vans, or don’t think a 200 series cruiser is the be all and end all of everything in the universe, then you are on a hiding to nothing.

[doc_777]

I'd use a WDH regardless of the van type. It just makes everything ride a whole lot better. (and therefore safer)

OK, who arbitrarily says it must be 10%? Because a percentage is exponential! Which is ridiculous. A 5,000kg trailer (towed by a RAM 3500 for example) doesn't need 500kg worth of downward pressure on the ball to be "safe".

i would ONLY use a WDH if the manufacturer of the towbar supported its use. Only they know what forces the unit is designed to withstand. Seeing as though there is no statement on the VW towbar sticker either way, i’d be contacting VW Australia for an answer. Mind you, at maximum 90kg towball download, I would be unlikely to recommend a WDH in any case - there is no worthwhile towball mass to redistribute.

[Jondalar]

While I whole heartedly agree with your comments about the physical forces involved with WDH use being massive, I would absolutely disagree with trying to get any useful information out of the caravaners forum. Such an argumentative, nitpicking bunch of self-professed experts who seem to change their opinions based on the wind direction. Trying to get a straight answer there? Might as well try and hold back the tide, or prevent the sun from rising. They are an elitist, self righteous bunch who will heap abuse and derision on anyone who doesn’t fit what they see as the perfect mould. And that mould better be a free-camping grey nomad, because if you like caravan parks or euro vans, or don’t think a 200 series cruiser is the be all and end all of everything in the universe, then you are on a hiding to nothing.

Totally agree with you there, I was on there from 2003 for about a decade until I got sick of the bitchy old men (mostly). Of course I've only towed caravans about 40k around Australia so just a beginner.

[doc_777]

<snip> I mean it's fairly basic engineering to get a trailer to be evenly balanced when it's horizontal to the ground (single or double axle) to the point where you shouldn't need to put the jockey wheel down on double axles. Then when you hitch it up, you make the necessary adjustments to the hitch setup to two horizontally. The tow car should be pulling, not holding one end off the ground.

i pulled this bit out because it is certainly not how I was taught to setup a trailer for towing - essentially no weight on the towball, but having the trailer ‘balanced’? No mention at all of mass distribution.

“Balance” and “mass centralisation” are definitely not the same thing - you can have balance with two kids on opposite ends of a see-saw, and that is diametrically opposed to centralised mass.

[doc_777]

Totally agree with you there, I was on there from 2003 for about a decade until I got sick of the bitchy old men (mostly). Of course I've only towed caravans about 40k around Australia so just a beginner.

i reckon the day you decide you know everything and stop learning with towing, is the day you bend a mirror (the whole shebang ends up upside down) :)

back to the sort of start of this thread though - it’d be nice if VW looked at upping the max towball weight for the Passat, as they did with the Tiguan. Even 120kg would be more friendly than 90kg. That being said, it’s doesnt greatly affect me at the moment - we (very) occasionally tow a box trailer these days. I knew the towball limits when I bought the vehicle - like you, as someone who has towed a few miles, that kind of intro research is one of the things you learn BEFORE buying a vehicle, hey.

[Hillbilly]

not sure how you can say I’m factually wrong, when what you wrote supports exactly what I said LOL. You seemed to pickup on me not saying that you can’t TOW more than specified by the vehicle manufacturer, but ignored the rest. Are you secretly a member of the caravaners forum?

one van one one trip. How sweet. Two boat shops in my family, that’s where I did my trade. Been towing since 17 - and until 30 (that’s 29 years ago) towed pretty much every day of my working life. Since moving on, i’ve owned 2 boats, 1 camper, 3 caravans. Last one was a 3500kg bestie behind a Y62 Patrol. So you’re not the only person here who knows about towing.

Used to be there but got sick of the same ones bitching about the same thing week in week out. Some however have some sense.

The bit I picked up on is where you say they can only make the bars limits" up to " and that towbar manufacturers can and do make bars for models of vehicle that DO exceed that vehicles limits but you cant exceed them regardless of what the bar maker states. The Toyota 80 series is an example where the bar fits a model that cannot use its capacity.

One Trip Ha ha 50000km of it and a lifetime of driving and towing all sorts of things prior to that as well as driving large vehicles including a Leyland twin steer with a trailer, 12m Buses, several different types of boats including several hundred hours in a Jet Boat and a much larger launch. Also have owned more than one van.

I do think we would agree that you dont need a WDH on a 90kg ball weight and that the forces imposed would do nothing but perhaps harm a Passat

[Rocket36]

WDH distributes weight back to the trailer (whatever it is) and when it's setup correctly there should be no extra up or down pressure on the tow ball... Explain how that increases the forces on the tow vehicle.

[Hillbilly]

WDH distributes weight back to the trailer (whatever it is) and when it's setup correctly there should be no extra up or down pressure on the tow ball... Explain how that increases the forces on the tow vehicle.

You are almost totally wrong A WDH is to redistribute weight taken off the front wheels of the tug back onto them and a very small part will go back to the vans axle
The action of tightening the WDH straightens the joint and thereby transmits force through the bar and onto the Tug

It therefore puts strain onto the towbar fixings to the tug and it is well know by those who understand that the action of going through creekbeds or even spoon drains has been enough to do damage to the bars or even the towbar fixings to the chassis of the tug.

Also the fitting of a WDH does NOT lighten ballweight as the ballweight of the van is measured disconnected from the tug and is always that weight regardless of whether a WDH is fitted or not.

Suggest you do a bit more research as you are definitely misunderstanding the whole concept of weight distribution and effects of it

[doc_777]

You are almost totally wrong A WDH is to redistribute weight taken off the front wheels of the tug back onto them and a very small part will go back to the vans axle
The action of tightening the WDH straightens the joint and thereby transmits force through the bar and onto the Tug

It therefore puts strain onto the towbar fixings to the tug and it is well know by those who understand that the action of going through creekbeds or even spoon drains has been enough to do damage to the bars or even the towbar fixings to the chassis of the tug.

Also the fitting of a WDH does NOT lighten ballweight as the ballweight of the van is measured disconnected from the tug and is always that weight regardless of whether a WDH is fitted or not.

Suggest you do a bit more research as you are definitely misunderstanding the whole concept of weight distribution and effects of it

What he said.

Hayman Reese say: “When using a Weight Distribution System, the ball weight remains the same, however the load is evenly distributed through the vehicle's chassis to all four wheels.”

Products | Hayman Reese (https://www.haymanreese.com.au/products/weight-distribution-systems)

I reckon they should understand the physics involved - they do build the things after all.

[Rocket36]

Tow Ball weight is not a constant. Basic physics dictates that. The weight on the ball will change simply by moving weight in the trailer forward or backwards.

I'll get into the engineering figures myself I think (engineering background) as from simple observations, what is being said here is contradicting the laws of physics.

Someone who builds something often isn't smart enough to understand it properly, they only think they do.

[doc_777]

Uh huh.

I’m sure you know more about the physics involved than Hayman Reese, EAZ Lift, Anderson, Camec etc.

The engineering and physics are well known, but hey - if you reckon they’re all wrong and you know more - knock yourself out.

[doc_777]

Tow Ball weight is not a constant. Basic physics dictates that. The weight on the ball will change simply by moving weight in the trailer forward or backwards.

I'll get into the engineering figures myself I think (engineering background) as from simple observations, what is being said here is contradicting the laws of physics.

Someone who builds something often isn't smart enough to understand it properly, they only think they do.

At any point in time, yes - it is constant. But like any system, you change a parameter, you change the result. Are you going to dynamically change the weight distribution of your trailer while underway? Sure, undulation will affect the way that load dynamically impacts the towball weight (etc), but remove the undulation, and the weights return to their static values.

[Hillbilly]

Tow Ball weight is not a constant. Basic physics dictates that. The weight on the ball will change simply by moving weight in the trailer forward or backwards.

I'll get into the engineering figures myself I think (engineering background) as from simple observations, what is being said here is contradicting the laws of physics.

Someone who builds something often isn't smart enough to understand it properly, they only think they do.

For the purpose of limiting ball weight it is weighed DISCONNECTED FROM THE TUG The weight obtained is defined as the BALLWEIGHT for the van
Yes it will vary a bit depending on the two vehicles attitude in relation to each other but the weight obtained is still the weight which is taken as being the static ballweight.

Along with your other incorrect assumptions it is easy to see you are a reader of that womans mag The No Idea

Some people are too smart for their own good it seems

What you should do is get a van load it up in the rear till it has no ball weight and get it up to 100kph. let us know where you do it and we will alert the local tow companies because you will need one for sure

[doc_777]

Lol you’re a character, that’s for sure.

[Ozsko]

What you should do is get a van load it up in the rear till it has no ball weight and get it up to 100kph. let us know where you do it and we will alert the local tow companies because you will need one for sure

No ball weight is a 100kg different to what is allowed. Why do you want to remove all the weight from the towbar?

[Hillbilly]

No ball weight is a 100kg different to what is allowed. Why do you want to remove all the weight from the towbar?

To prove to the OP that his theories are wrong Read through the thread

Nowhere was 100kg mentioned as what is allowed either. The only constant is that the tow vehicle in question has a 90kg limit

[Rocket36]

Why would I move all the weight to the rear? That's PROVEN IN THIS THREAD to be completely WRONG!

The weight should be over the axle(s) and in a perfect world there would be a 52/48 balance front/rear.

Also there is no such mag as "No Idea" so you should check your facts there.

[Hillbilly]

W

Also there is no such mag as "No Idea" so you should check your facts there.

Missed that didnt you

Read it again I said move weight to the rear TILL YOU HAVE NO BALLWEIGHT. Or 2% if you like Result will be the same

[Jondalar]

Hillbilly I think you are equating a low ball weight with having weight at the rear, it doesn't have to be that way. A low ball weight can come from good centralised mass with low weight at either end...

[Hillbilly]

Hillbilly I think you are equating a low ball weight with having weight at the rear, it doesn't have to be that way. A low ball weight can come from good centralised mass with low weight at either end...

I DIDNT mean load it all in the rear Was badly written I meant move it back to get a zero ball weight However he does it to get that doesnt matter.

It will end up in tears if he does I bet. You know as well as I do what is likely to happen.

Do it however he likes but a Zero ball weight is a recipe for disaster Look at that van in the Coroners report and see what happens with zero ball weight It is sitting there horizontal with no jockey wheel How stupid is that. They wont know though as they are all dead.

[Ozsko]

I DIDNT mean load it all in the rear Was badly written I meant move it back to get a zero ball weight However he does it to get that doesnt matter

Move the axle centre line and it very much matters. Move the towbar height will also affect the tow ball weight. Put a van and car on a weigh bridge and have a play with both and see what happens.

[Hillbilly]

Move the axle centre line and it very much matters. Move the towbar height will also affect the tow ball weight. Put a van and car on a weigh bridge and have a play with both and see what happens.

He is talking about buying a camper trailer and wants a lower ballweight. Unless you reconstruct the thing the axle will remain in the same place.
I was being somewhat facetious/ sarcastic seeing he seems to think he has all the answers and suggested he do that and see what happens.
Any experienced vanner wouldnt be stupid enough to do that.. Wait............

[Adamtram]

So who tows a camper trailer?

The VW towbar has a low ball limit, 90kg from memory, which isn't great.

Looking for a decent after market towbar setup so I can actually tow something like a Jayco Expanda 14.44-4. Because the VW one won't let me.
A
Cheers.

I have been through the exact same thing. Unfortunately the tow ball limit is what it is. You may need to settle for a Tent Camper trailer as there are no jayco type camper trailers that will fit your allowances.

We we purchased an Outback Campers soft floor. The ball weight is at 80kg when fully loaded and tows great. I wouldn’t want to tow anything larger.


http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/01/B90CE51F5111422C90FCE37E462D2F12-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/YRsgSVQ)

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/01/25A49546DECC40959294224F9D442B67-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/489GvjK)

[Rocket36]

he seems to think he has all the answers

Are you deliberately being stupid mate? I haven't once said I have all the answers. This is the second time I've had to tell you this. I wouldn't come here if I had all the answers. I wouldn't need to ask the questions.


I have been through the exact same thing. Unfortunately the tow ball limit is what it is. You may need to settle for a Tent Camper trailer as there are no jayco type camper trailers that will fit your allowances.

We we purchased an Outback Campers soft floor. The ball weight is at 80kg when fully loaded and tows great. I wouldn’t want to tow anything larger.

There are some Jayco campers that have ball weights in the 80s. It actually depends on how they're ordered and built. It can be done.

But nah decided to add a new pick up truck to our ever growing fleet of vehicles. The 2018 RAM 2500 Laramie with the mighty Cummins diesel and a legal towing limit that ****s on almost anything else while giving the middle finer salute to all the other wankers out there in their crew cabs and Land Cruisers. We'll keep the Passat for what it's obviously meant for - commuting and school runs. Also means we can get a real caravan instead of a toy one. Maybe even a 5th wheel.

[doc_777]

Just be aware of the payload. 913kg on the Ram. That must include all occupants, weight on the hitch or 5th wheeler pin, luggage etc. Do you happen to know if they offer a GVM upgrade (from 4500kg)? The 4500kg GVM is to allow the vehicle to be driven on a standard car license, but if they offer an upgrade (which would necessitate you getting an LT license, but no big deal) then it potentially offers a payload upgrade to a good number.

[Rocket36]

Just be aware of the payload. 913kg on the Ram. That must include all occupants, weight on the hitch or 5th wheeler pin, luggage etc. Do you happen to know if they offer a GVM upgrade (from 4500kg)? The 4500kg GVM is to allow the vehicle to be driven on a standard car license, but if they offer an upgrade (which would necessitate you getting an LT license, but no big deal) then it potentially offers a payload upgrade to a good number.

Yup - already aware. There are rear suspension upgrades out there that need a LV licence (no biggy there) but significantly increase the GVM. Not that it's a big deal. Even at 900kg it's more than we'd need. E.g. take a 300kg ball and you're still left with 600kgs for two adults, two toddlers and our luggage. Easy.

[doc_777]

The chev Silverado (via hsv) is only 875kg! But you’re right - 900 and some is enough so long as you don’t go silly. Nice big platform. A guy I know has the petrol one - too thirsty for me these days, but the Cummins engined ones should be great. And all that torque!

edit: one suggestion for you to consider - if you have a van built to your spec, get the largest ATM the van/chassis manufacturer will allow. We did that on our last van build and ended up with a payload for the van of nearly 900kg. Take away a couple of hundred kg for water, and still more than ample remaining - and no luggage to carry in the tow vehicle to share the weight :)

[Rocket36]

get the largest ATM the van/chassis manufacturer will allow. We did that on our last van build and ended up with a payload for the van of nearly 900kg. Take away a couple of hundred kg for water, and still more than ample remaining - and no luggage to carry in the tow vehicle to share the weight :)

Yeah - that's the plan. Doing everything right straight up. Be one in the minority - i.e. fully legal and compliant setup. Hahaha