7 Speed DSG starting soon?

[Jondalar]

I've just noticed that as of yesterday the VW Aus site is showing the Alltrack as 7 Speed DSG and you can no longer build the Wolfsburg edition. The MY 18.5 brochure is ambiguous saying 6 in some parts and 7 in others. Does anyone know for sure when the 7 speeds DSG (wet clutch) is coming to the Passat in Australia? I didn't think this would happen until the 8.5 update sometime next year.

Cheers,
Karl

[doc_777]

Comfortline 132 is already 7 speed. My wife’s 2016 spec has it.

[Jondalar]

Yeah but that's not the new 7 speed wet clutch, totally different animal.

[Kachingg]

Yeah but that's not the new 7 speed wet clutch, totally different animal.

Yeah that is is indeed i have it in my golf alltrack and it makes the 6 speed dq250 look lame i paddle shift mine so often i got paddle extenders for the little dinky factory ones

It is so smooth and shift points are great

[Jondalar]

Sorry I should have made it clear in the title that I am referring to the wet clutch 7 speed as used with the 206 TSI and 140 TDI engines.

[Jondalar]

Yeah that is is indeed i have it in my golf alltrack and it makes the 6 speed dq250 look lame i paddle shift mine so often i got paddle extenders for the little dinky factory ones

It is so smooth and shift points are great

Yeah I experienced it when I test drove a Golf R Wolfsburg. Loved it apart from the synthesised sound track inside the car which doesn't sound like the outside so much lol. Unfortunately a little too low to toe ground for me to use as a daily driver.

Cheers,
Karl

[tigger73]

According to the RVCS site, the MY18 Passat has the 7 speed DSG in the 132TSI and 140TDI and 6 speed in the 206TSI.

Now the million dollar question is whether the 7 speed is the older DQ200 or newer DQ380/381.

[limiteded]

It is changing from 6 speed wet clutch to 7 speed wet clutch for Passat s with the 140tdi motor only

As per the flyer for my18.5 updates

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/attachments/f197/32063d1515045556-wolfsburg-edition-golf-r-185-jpg

originally posted page 95 of golf Wolfsburg thread

[Jimi]

That doesn’t include the 206, only the TDI. Seems weird that a lower model would get a better gearbox

[Jondalar]

That doesn’t include the 206, only the TDI. Seems weird that a lower model would get a better gearbox
Maybe it's about the torque, plus 206 is kind of superseded isn't it? (By current Golf 7.5 R engine)

[Jimi]

Both the 206 6 speed and the new 7 speed for the TDI are in the high torque (wet) category. As the flagship it doesn’t make sense.

Hopefully a facelift is imminent

[tigger73]

Yes so as per the VW MY18.5 update document it looks like:

132TSI = 7 speed DQ200 dry DSG
140TDI = 7 speed DQ380 wet DSG
206TSI = 6 speed DQ250 wet DSG

It does seem a bit of an anomoly. I'm guessing the 206TSI Passat is going to get engine/gearbox updates for MY19 in September. I suspect VW still wants to have some differentiation between the Passat and the Arteon. My tip is that the Passat gets the 7 speed DQ380 and the Arteon gets the engine upgrade to 213kW... but this is only my guess.

But yes until then it seems that the tables are turned a bit.

[Jimi]

Also worth noting that the DQ380 is used widely in the Tiguan range including the 162tsi and even perhaps the 132tsi as well, both of which have less or similar torque to the Passat 206tsi

[Pass2093]

I've just noticed that as of yesterday the VW Aus site is showing the Alltrack as 7 Speed DSG and you can no longer build the Wolfsburg edition. The MY 18.5 brochure is ambiguous saying 6 in some parts and 7 in others. Does anyone know for sure when the 7 speeds DSG (wet clutch) is coming to the Passat in Australia? I didn't think this would happen until the 8.5 update sometime next year.

Cheers,
Karl

Can I ask where you are viewing the MY18.5 Passat brochure ? The brochure available on the AU VW website was issued Sept 2017 which would still be the MY18 model.

[Jondalar]

Can I ask where you are viewing the MY18.5 Passat brochure ? The brochure available on the AU VW website was issued Sept 2017 which would still be the MY18 model.

I got a brochure from the dealer printed January 2018. The top part before specifications has been updated, this is the same on the download. It says before the specifications section VWPASSALMY18.5. Also not the brochure but the specifications that you can download at the bottom of the Alltrack page just above explore the range. This says 18.5 in the name.

Cheers
Karl

[tigger73]

Also worth noting that the DQ380 is used widely in the Tiguan range including the 162tsi and even perhaps the 132tsi as well, both of which have less or similar torque to the Passat 206tsi

The Tiguan has the DQ500 7 speed wet DSG - same as Transporter, Q5 and TT-RS. It’s designed for high torque/high load applications.


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[tigger73]

Can I ask where you are viewing the MY18.5 Passat brochure ? The brochure available on the AU VW website was issued Sept 2017 which would still be the MY18 model.

Often VW doesn’t reprint brochures for the mid-year update as often the changes are minimal. I think they’ve just updated the specs document.

There’s a link a few posts back to the MY18.5 changes across the range. MY18.5 cars started in calendar week 45 2017.


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[Jondalar]

Both the 206 6 speed and the new 7 speed for the TDI are in the high torque (wet) category. As the flagship it doesn’t make sense.

Hopefully a facelift is imminent

Skoda Superb isn't getting an update until mid 2019 so I wouldn't hold me breath for a facelift. I've not heard of the 206 being paired with the 7 speed wet clutch in anything, you'd think they'd give it to the Arteon first if they were. I test drove one of those but the lag was terrible. I suspect it will have to wait for the 213kW equivalent motor.

[tigger73]

Skoda Superb isn't getting an update until mid 2019 so I wouldn't hold me breath for a facelift. I've not heard of the 206 being paired with the 7 speed wet clutch in anything, you'd think they'd give it to the Arteon first if they were. I test drove one of those but the lag was terrible. I suspect it will have to wait for the 213kW equivalent motor.

Arteon has the DQ380 wet 7 speed DSG matched to 206TSI engine.

Will be interesting to see what VW/Skoda do with the Passat/Superb in the next 12 months. It may also come down to what allocation they can get from the factory.


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[Jondalar]

Ahh OK well the Arteon I test drove definitely only had the 6 speed. Older model I guess (was discounted about $15k) Didn't like it anyway, very poor rear visibility and rear seat headroom too lacking.

[FarQ]

found this table on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox#List_of_DSG_variants). Might explain different usages of the DSGs.

[Jondalar]

So based on that table the Alltrack can't be getting the DQ380 as it has 400Nm

[tigger73]

I think you’ll find that table is just something that user put together.

The 140TDI Passat/Alltrack gets the new 7 speed wet gearbox. I’m sure the VW engineers designing it know what it’s torque rating is and are working well within the safe limits.

[FarQ]

So based on that table the Alltrack can't be getting the DQ380 as it has 400Nm

maybe it is getting the DQ381?

[Kachingg]

maybe it is getting the DQ381?

It will get the dq381 (a fantastic gearbox) the 381 is for 4wd and the 380 is 2wd the dq381 is rated at a max of 420nm

My tuner has informed me the clutch's on it are huge and can handle way more than 420nm with a dsg tune so rest easy it will have no issue with a 140kw 400nm output

[Jondalar]

Interestingly according the PDF spec sheets from VWA website the Passat Alltrack TDI with 7 speed DSG uses more fuel than the 6 speed:

Transmission 6 Speed DSG
Driven wheels 4MOTION all wheel drive
Performance#
0 – 100 km/h, seconds 8.0
Fuel consumption**
Combined, L/100 km 5.4
Urban, L/100km 6.3
Extra Urban, L/100 km 4.9
CO2 emission g/km 143

Transmission 7 Speed DSG
Driven wheels 4MOTION all wheel drive
Performance#
0 – 100 km/h, seconds 8.0
Fuel consumption**
Combined, L/100 km 5.6
Urban, L/100km 6.4
Extra Urban, L/100 km 5.1
CO2 emission g/km 146

[Rocket36]

MY18 140TDI here and it's a 6 speed DSG. It has to be the 6 speed DSG because of the torque.

[Jondalar]

The MY18.5's have the 7 speed...

[Rocket36]

The MY18.5's have the 7 speed...

Yeah I get that. But will use more fuel and I wouldn't trust it with the torque - the reason it's been left out of the diesels until now!

[Jimi]

No question the 7 speed wet clutch is an upgrade. They only gave it to the diesel which has more torque than the 206 petrol

Why would an extra ratio increase consumption? If anything I’d assume the opposite

[Jondalar]

No question the 7 speed wet clutch is an upgrade. They only gave it to the diesel which has more torque than the 206 petrol

Why would an extra ratio increase consumption? If anything I’d assume the opposite

The figures above are for the Alltrack with 6 and 7 speed DSG. From Tech specs on VWA website


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[curly747]

Why would an extra ratio increase consumption? If anything I’d assume the opposite
Maybe it makes the car heavier. Do the have the weights in the specs? Or maybe something else has changed in addition to gearbox change.

[HiddenTaco]

No question the 7 speed wet clutch is an upgrade. They only gave it to the diesel which has more torque than the 206 petrol

Why would an extra ratio increase consumption? If anything I’d assume the opposite

Wet is slower due to increased friction. So the same output requires more input.

[Rocket36]

5.6l/100km with the 6 speed is good enough for me. lol

Fighting the truckies for my $10 of AdBlue last night was funny. Well, only one was a prick ("cars go over there mate! piss off!"). Others were fine with it.

[tigger73]

It may also be due to post-dieselgate tune and changes to testing.


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[doc_777]

B8 Diesel engines are EA 288 series - not affected by dieselgate so tunes haven’t changed due to that.

[tigger73]

B8 Diesel engines are EA 288 series - not affected by dieselgate so tunes haven’t changed due to that.

Yes you’re right. I’d probably put it down to a higher rated gearbox having slightly higher losses and possibly also the revised car getting tested under different ambient conditions.


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[Jondalar]

Wet is slower due to increased friction. So the same output requires more input.

But we are comparing wet 6 speed with wet 7 speed on the Alltrack.


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