3.6 CC. Cranking but not starting

[seanmau5]

Hey gents.. Back again.. This car is not doing any favours for VW with me..

Anyway, situation below.

Cold start - car cranks 2-3 times and starts just fine.

Warm(ish) start (within 30mins to 6-7 hours after running) - car cranks and cranks and cranks and eventually starts but runs very rough. Turn it off then start again - car cranks 2-3 times and starts just fine.

I’ve read crank sensor. I’ve also read temperature sensor. Will a VCDS scan show an error even though I’ve not had a CEL on the dash?


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[kamold]

Would be a good place to start.
Hopefully point more towards the cause

[SKiZO]

Just read something on this today. Could be unrelated but check the section on "carbon deposits" - AustralianCar.Reviews: #1 for Reviews and Used Car Valuations (http://australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Volkswagen&model=Passat%20CC&gen=950)

[seanmau5]

Cheers for the link..

Bit of an update. VCDS scan shows no codes pertaining to issues with ignition. Mechanic measured fuel pressure and found there to be a possible issue there. Was able to replicate the problem by manipulating the high pressure fuel pump so the switch was replaced. No dice.

Just got the car back from timing chain replacement thinking that it could be a timing issue (I was well aware the car needed the work). No dice.

I am well and truly over this piece of :poo:. I will never buy another Volkswagen again - nothing but problems with it.

[Elmura]

Cheers for the link..

Bit of an update. VCDS scan shows no codes pertaining to issues with ignition. Mechanic measured fuel pressure and found there to be a possible issue there. Was able to replicate the problem by manipulating the high pressure fuel pump so the switch was replaced. No dice.

Just got the car back from timing chain replacement thinking that it could be a timing issue (I was well aware the car needed the work). No dice.

I am well and truly over this piece of :poo:. I will never buy another Volkswagen again - nothing but problems with it.Must be poorly maintained, or high km. I've got a MY12 without any real dramas. I service it myself to be sure

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[seanmau5]

Must be poorly maintained, or high km. I've got a MY12 without any real dramas. I service it myself to be sure

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Bit of a **** comment to just assume that the car is poorly maintained.. I’ve got 135k on the clock. I’d list below everything that is wrong with it but I couldn’t be bothered wasting my time with it.


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[Elmura]

Bit of a **** comment to just assume that the car is poorly maintained.. I’ve got 135k on the clock. I’d list below everything that is wrong with it but I couldn’t be bothered wasting my time with it.


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Not really a **** comment. I had an R36 that had some issues which I inherited when I purchased it 80,000km old. The car had impeccable records by VW dealer servicing. That turned out to be useless though coz it depends on how well the servicing is done, and the condition between servicing (possibly ran low oil, didn't change filter, ran poor fuel.... who knows!)

[seanmau5]

So after a few scans that didn't seem to produce any problems, I finally got my hands on a cable to do my own scans.

Found a p0441 and p000a code. I can't find any information relating to p000a on the 3.6 bws engine. Does anyone have any advice? I have found information related to other engines - camshaft position sensor/camshaft positioner.


001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 136140 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2012.06.11
Time: 18:34:06


Freeze Frame:
RPM: 648 /min
Load: 28.2 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 87.0°C
Temperature: 39.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.589 V


000010 - Camshaft Positioner (Bank 1 Intake)
P000A - 008 - Slow Response - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 136238 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2012.06.14
Time: 12:05:44


Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1187 /min
Load: 68.2 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 27.0°C
Temperature: 32.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

[seanmau5]

030907601E will be my first port of call.. Camshaft position sensor

[seanmau5]

Camshaft position sensor replaced and that didn’t work.

Can anyone confirm or deny whether a faulty N80 valve or blocked line on the evap system (p0441 code) could potentially choke the car of fuel? If so, I’ll purchase a 06D133517B

[00100100]

Might sound silly, but long time ago I had a similar issue with a different car/engine. When the engine is warm it did crank with no start. Until it cooled down a little. Turned out to be a loose wire or bad connection point to one of the sensors.

[seanmau5]

After weeks of mild temperatures and no real issues, Sydney was 36 degrees on Wednesday and my CC was in the sun all day and sure enough...

YouTube (https://youtu.be/X6b9BLyzADk)

Got it on video finally..


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[tinto]

My 08 R36 did this too. Fine if it was very cold, but it would craaaaaaaaaaaank for a long time if it was a warm day and I'd driven it earlier.
I never got to the bottom of it before I sold it, but had a coolant temp sensor on order after doing a bit of reading.

Mine had that rough running occasionally too - really disconcerting - made me think it was timing chains etc

I wish I could be more help - Good luck with it.

[neil]

Ive had similar issues for years , but I have the jetta TDI , can go months no issues , then usually after long drive
and you stop but then shortly after need to start it , it will crank not fire , I just pump the accelerator while cranking
and it always fires up this way although doesn't make any sense to me why, I've just learnt to live with it.

[00100100]

Looks like one of two cylinders have been shut off. When you did the error scan, did you do that while it is in that rough idling situation? It should report which cylinders are off. Could be the carbon build up issue, similar symptoms to others who had to clean their engine valve head. Even though the carbon problem is usually when the engine is cold. Have you been using foam cleaner regularly?

[seanmau5]

Mine fires up if I pump the accelerator too, but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) I’m not the kind of person that can just live with an issue like this. No I didn’t do a scan while it was running rough like that, because while I had the cord that I had borrowed, the stupid car wouldn’t do it. The day after I return it and bingo [emoji849][emoji849] I’ve not used any of the foam cleaner before, but I did just buy a can of liquimoly that I’ll run through it this afternoon and then on Thursday I’ll remove the intake and inspect. I find it so odd that it’s only when it’s hot outside and based on the research I’ve done, this is a common issue that I refuse to pay VW a diagnostic fee to tell me there is ‘nothing wrong’


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[00100100]

Any updates on the situation?

[seanmau5]

Sort of. I definitely think it’s an evap or tank venting issue based on all my situational testing.

Plenty of warm days, I’ve left the fuel filler cap loose so it doesn’t create a seal and the car starts first time, every time. Also, check out this link. On warm days only with the fuel filler cap sealed this happens. Release fuel filler cap and noise stops.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/68uw4ssqquA)

[seanmau5]

Spent a bit more time on this today.. Particularly focusing on the charcoal canister.

The venting noise in the video in the above post is coming from the pressure retention valve which connects the tank breather line to the charcoal canister. This isn’t an electronic valve hence no errors - I believe it works based on pressure and has a diaphragm in it that allows air flow dependant on this pressure. There are 2 soft rubber o-rings and one harder plastic o-ring inside the valve that don’t seem to be sealing properly and allowing air to be sucked into the canister past the seals and causing the noise.

Unfortunately I don’t believe I am any closer to solving the no start issue..

[00100100]

It is very odd indeed! Best of luck.

[Bozfromoz]

I have a similar issue with a golf mk4 that I just bought to play with. It definitely sounds like you have spark so most likely it’s your fuel delivery. You said low pressure had been found. I would suggest on a day that you can’t start it grab some 8$ starting fluid from Supercheap Auto and spray into to air intake. This should start it. Check for any leaks in the fueling lines , Check voltage on fuel pump. Then check fuel filter. Finally check injectors. You can do this test with obdeleven. It sucks if it’s your daily driver but if it’s not it can be fun !!!!!

[seanmau5]

So this has now thrown a CEL and my fuel use is nowhere near as efficient as the 11L/100kms that the display reads. Certainly using a lot more fuel than the average would suggest. I’ve had no starting issues for months because I’ve simply left the fuel filler cap loose. I’m going to buy one of those $40 charcoal canisters off eBay and put that in and a new genuine n80 valve.


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