RE: 140TDI DPF with Adblue

[ope126]

Hi All,

Just picked up a Demo with a 1,000kms on the ODO.
Drove from Sydney to Brisbane and performed flawlessly.
Now in the usual day to day driving, I am experiencing an Active Regeneration Self Clean Cycle at some point of my journey.
I can tell as the idle speed increases to around 1050 - 1100rpm.

In my previous 130TDI Highline, it rarely did a DPF Regen (in the same driving conditions).

I only have 2,500kms on the ODO.

Is this usual practice now of the Euro 6 Engines?

What is everyone else experiencing?

[Eaglehawk]

Sounds like you've got a honest diesel engine instead of my naughty diesel engine...

[doc_777]

Deleted

[Gazza]

Hi ope126,
Are you sure it is doing a regen?
I find the idle speed is very dependent on the pressure applied to the brake pedal .
Light pressure will result in an idle speed over just over 1000 rpm, but with a bit more pressure the speed drops to around 800 rpm (assuming you have start-stop de-activated)
Only done about 1600km in my car, and have noticed it has performed a regen only twice; it is very obvious as the radiator fans are going full bore.

[ClassicAU]

What Gazza said. I find in my 130 that it does the same dependent on brake pressure, and I put it down to the engagement of the DSG clutch. The more brake, the less likely it thinks you are to take off again kind of thing. I have yet to notice any form of self cleaning in the year I have had mine. If it is there, then it is not making me aware of it!

[dinot81]

Yes, when regen is undertaken, idle is around 1000rpm and I have noticed a deeper note from exhaust. Most of my regens happen on motorways and under throttle, the exhaust sounds bit louder, kind of a nicer sound.

2015 Tiguan 130TDI R-Line, Pepper Grey, Panoramic Sunroof

[sclyde2]

my 140tdi surprised me with its behaviour with the regen stuff. most disturbing is if you arrive home while it is in the middle of it. it makes quite the racket for a while after you turn the engine off - the fans run really loud for a while afterwards. i have lost count of how many times it has run - at around 9k km now. probably a good thing, as i probably don't get enough ~30min+ high speed drives in often enough, which would probably kill a dpf in one of the older engines.

[dinot81]

my 140tdi surprised me with its behaviour with the regen stuff. most disturbing is if you arrive home while it is in the middle of it. it makes quite the racket for a while after you turn the engine off - the fans run really loud for a while afterwards. i have lost count of how many times it has run - at around 9k km now. probably a good thing, as i probably don't get enough ~30min+ high speed drives in often enough, which would probably kill a dpf in one of the older engines.
I would not recommend you interrupt a regen. I have been caught close to home few fimes, as it may sound crazy, continue to drive until finished. Do an extra lap.

The danger of interrupting regens, you could end up with oil thinning (fuel enters oil). Causes an increase in oil levels plus oil loses its lubrication. Very bad for engine. If you have a habit of turning off your engine with regen in process , check your oil level. Plus, can clog the dpf over time if regens are not completed. Be careful with that.

2015 Tiguan 130TDI R-Line, Pepper Grey, Panoramic Sunroof

[ClassicAU]

it makes quite the racket for a while after you turn the engine off - the fans run really loud for a while afterwards.

Oh, is that what that is! I always thought it was some sort of turbo timer to cool things down! Shows what generation I grew up in! :P

I can say that I have gotten to my destination often with this happening, and had my first major service (25,000kms) and inspection passed with flying colours. However I will try and be more mindful of it after this explanation, thanks!

[sclyde2]

I would not recommend you interrupt a regen. I have been caught close to home few fimes, as it may sound crazy, continue to drive until finished. Do an extra lap.

The danger of interrupting regens, you could end up with oil thinning (fuel enters oil). Causes an increase in oil levels plus oil loses its lubrication. Very bad for engine. If you have a habit of turning off your engine with regen in process , check your oil level. Plus, can clog the dpf over time if regens are not completed. Be careful with that.

2015 Tiguan 130TDI R-Line, Pepper Grey, Panoramic Sunroof

Interesting. This potential issue applies to the ea288? Do you have a link to some instances where these problems occurred. I often get home not even noticing the Regen is happening until I switch the engine off and hear the fan. From what you describe, VW has designed it in a way that will be difficult for me to avoid issues.

[Umai Naa!!]

Engine fan run-on is pretty normal for VWs. Has been that way for the last 10 years or so.

The idea is to stablise engine temps after shut-off.

[dinot81]

Interesting. This potential issue applies to the ea288? Do you have a link to some instances where these problems occurred. I often get home not even noticing the Regen is happening until I switch the engine off and hear the fan. From what you describe, VW has designed it in a way that will be difficult for me to avoid issues.
If you are referring to oil thinning, this applies to all manufacturers with dpf engines. If they are not maintained, has caused issues all over the world from Audi to Volvo. Have read stories in Germany where engines have been destroyed with less then 10,000kms on the clock as people were not made aware on how to maintain a diesel with dpf. Most of them did shorter trips not allowing oil to reach operating temeperature. In those cases if a regen is required with a cold engine, it will inject additional fuel into combustion chamber to raise the temeperature (most cars need a minimum of 600 degrees C. If you reach your destination and interrupt that process, due to cylinder walls not being at operating temp, the additional unburnt fuel stays on the walls without being able to evaporate (low temp in chamber) and on the next start, oil will pick it up and you end up with oil thinning over time if repeated all the time. Its visible by increase of oil on dipstick. Looks like your engine producing oil. So, if that level goes beyond limits, can end up in the turbo and once the mixture reaches combustion chamber, engine commits suicide by revving itself to death. Imagine a diesel engine revving way past the limiter and cannot be shut down even if you turn off the key. Those unlucky ones are still in battle through Courts as has voided warranty and were never explained about issues by sales people. The manual says not to use for constant short distance driving and if so, engine will need higher speed driving from time to time.

In terms of regens, I can only say about mine that exhaust note is louder and idles at 1000rpm when in coasting mode or I happen to be at the lights. Have not driven another dpf diesel long enough to be present during a regen.

Another thing you can have a look if your service interval, they start with 365 / 730 days and 15k & 30k kms. If the inspection reminder reduces the days, not exactly following the oil change interval, car is picking up that not being driven ideally.

Hope above makes sense, sorry about if any typos, wrote on my phone. Above info obtained from German forums and stories when researched dpf problems people had.

2015 Tiguan 130TDI R-Line, Pepper Grey, Panoramic Sunroof

[dinot81]

Here is a website I found dedicated to dpf problems:

403 Forbidden (http://www.dpfproblems.net/)

2015 Tiguan 130TDI R-Line, Pepper Grey, Panoramic Sunroof

[Asahi1985]

Just read this thread. I have had my 140 for a few days now and today the fans kept going after shut down. I thought it was a turbo thing but after coming across this I'm not so sure.

Could anybody please tell me how I know for sure if my car is going through this cycle?


Also would anybody be able to give me a few tips on how to care for my engine? From what I have read the diesels need an occasional long run is this true? Is it beneficial to give it some beans here and there through the gears and blow the cob webs out? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dinot81]

Just read this thread. I have had my 140 for a few days now and today the fans kept going after shut down. I thought it was a turbo thing but after coming across this I'm not so sure.

Could anybody please tell me how I know for sure if my car is going through this cycle?


Also would anybody be able to give me a few tips on how to care for my engine? From what I have read the diesels need an occasional long run is this true? Is it beneficial to give it some beans here and there through the gears and blow the cob webs out? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If your trips are long enough to get oil to operating temperature and keep an eye on idle revs before shutting down (air-con off). If idles at around 1000rpm, likely doing a regen. With fans running after shutdown, can also be just cooling down. Had that happen once in 2 years since buying mine but it was after driving in close to 40 degree heat.

Regen occurance depends also on quality of diesel that you fill up. BP Ultimate is the only one in Oz being close to european standard, followed by Vortex Diesel. Anything else is crap in my view.

There is no need to trash the engine just to blow cobwebs out, 110kph on motorway does the job. Do 30-40kms trip at least here and there, maybe at least once a month. Diesel engines are not really built for suburban driving, they are long-range engines and need regular exercise.


2015 Tiguan 130TDI R-Line, Pepper Grey, Panoramic Sunroof

[Asahi1985]

If your trips are long enough to get oil to operating temperature and keep an eye on idle revs before shutting down (air-con off). If idles at around 1000rpm, likely doing a regen. With fans running after shutdown, can also be just cooling down. Had that happen once in 2 years since buying mine but it was after driving in close to 40 degree heat.

Regen occurance depends also on quality of diesel that you fill up. BP Ultimate is the only one in Oz being close to european standard, followed by Vortex Diesel. Anything else is crap in my view.

There is no need to trash the engine just to blow cobwebs out, 110kph on motorway does the job. Do 30-40kms trip at least here and there, maybe at least once a month. Diesel engines are not really built for suburban driving, they are long-range engines and need regular exercise.


2015 Tiguan 130TDI R-Line, Pepper Grey, Panoramic Sunroof

Thanks heaps for the advise I will note everything you just mentioned. Did a few hours today but got a cracked windscreen on my 3 day old car totally gutted.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wynnston]

Thanks heaps for the advise I will note everything you just mentioned. Did a few hours today but got a cracked windscreen on my 3 day old car totally gutted.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it makes you feel any better. I took out a Kangaroo down South @ 4 weeks old.

Also, the premium Diesel in WA (and I'm pretty sure other states) for both Caltex and BP is the same. They come out of the same refinery and have the same additives.

[ope126]

Hi ope126,
Are you sure it is doing a regen?
I find the idle speed is very dependent on the pressure applied to the brake pedal .
Light pressure will result in an idle speed over just over 1000 rpm, but with a bit more pressure the speed drops to around 800 rpm (assuming you have start-stop de-activated)
Only done about 1600km in my car, and have noticed it has performed a regen only twice; it is very obvious as the radiator fans are going full bore.

As per the this post, solution has been found!
It is just the pressure that I apply to the brakes when stationary.
Obviously I need to apply full pressure, not just a light pressure (which I have done with all my cars in my life).

Thanks for the info though!

[Hillbilly]

As per the this post, solution has been found!
It is just the pressure that I apply to the brakes when stationary.
Obviously I need to apply full pressure, not just a light pressure (which I have done with all my cars in my life).

Thanks for the info though!

Only applying light pressure may also partially engage the clutches in a similar fashion to slipping the clutch on a manual. Also creeping in traffic by lightening off on the brake is a no no if you want clutches to last. Stop it, hold it stopped, remove brake foot completely, let it roll.

[sclyde2]

As per the this post, solution has been found!
It is just the pressure that I apply to the brakes when stationary.
Obviously I need to apply full pressure, not just a light pressure (which I have done with all my cars in my life).

Thanks for the info though!

bonus: you also might save your gearbox a bit of unnecessary wear

[Asahi1985]

Question about DPF: If you are not aware that your car is on a regen until you turn it off and the fans are howling. Are you better to restart and go for a drive or leave it be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Asahi1985]

Car has done 2 regens in no more then 600km is this normal also both regens I am aware of have been when car has turned off?

Think I am getting paranoid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hillbilly]

Yes i think so. Had mine for 6 years Wouldnt have a clue when its done a regen and as long as it keeps going correctly I dont really care

[dinot81]

Question about DPF: If you are not aware that your car is on a regen until you turn it off and the fans are howling. Are you better to restart and go for a drive or leave it be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here is what appears to be some answers from VW tech support around DPF's I have found on a UK site. Maybe this will help, applies to all dpf engines.

DPF Regeneration Information - Must read for all drivers of DPF equipped cars - MkV (Mk5) Golf, Golf Plus & Jetta - uk-mkivs (http://uk-mkivs.net/topic/31023-dpf-regeneration-information-must-read-for-all-drivers-of-dpf-equipped-cars/)

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[ope126]

Took the car to VW today and was advised that the DPF is fine, no build up what so ever. Must have just been me not being firm enough on the brake pedal as described earlier...

[ope126]

Had the AdBlue topped up whilst getting the 12mth / 15,000km service today (only 5,000kms on the ODO).
The AdBlue info has been reset and now displays 10,000kms range.

[ope126]

Here is some info from the Volkswagen UK site; http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/diesel/adblue

Interesting info regarding the AdBlue Capacity; 13 Litres (approximately)

1.89L Top Up Bottle (with Adaptor) VW Part No. G052910A2

I have tried searching but can't find a clear answer...
Can you "top up" the AdBlue at anytime?
Or do you have to do a complete "refill" when the first warning message appears?

Also, has anyone used an AdBlue bowser at a petrol station yet? Are they high flow nozzles or are they suitable for light vehicle applications?

[Flipper Dog]

Also, has anyone used an AdBlue bowser at a petrol station yet? Are they high flow nozzles or are they suitable for light vehicle applications?
Suitable for light vehicles, flow rate is no difference to a standard fuel pump. Some require a magnetic adapter applied to the end to allow for liquid flow, this is normally with the cashier. You will tell if there is nothing happening at the pump.

[Kachingg]

Also as a warning do not do a whoops put adblue in fuel tank this is even worse and more expensive that putting petrol in a diesel
at my work (am a heavy truck driver) several drivers have done this and ruined a motor to the tune of 80k! this includes total engine rebuild and compleate replacement of fuel system from tank all the way to injectors its bad ju-ju vry corrosive

[doc_777]

<snip>
Can you "top up" the AdBlue at anytime?
<snip>

Yes.

You can pay a small amount at the dealers service dept, or you can fill at any fuel shop* that sells it. It's cheap stuff - pump price is around a buck a litre. I would buy from the dealer as it comes from sealed containers.

*I don't use the name "service station" anymore - no 'service' at any of them.....they are just fuel retailers these days.

[ope126]

Here is some info from the Volkswagen UK site; AdBlue | Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) | Volkswagen UK (http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/diesel/adblue)

Interesting info regarding the AdBlue Capacity; 13 Litres (approximately)

1.89L Top Up Bottle (with Adaptor) VW Part No. G052910A2

I have tried searching but can't find a clear answer...
Can you "top up" the AdBlue at anytime?
Or do you have to do a complete "refill" when the first warning message appears?

Also, has anyone used an AdBlue bowser at a petrol station yet? Are they high flow nozzles or are they suitable for light vehicle applications?

Easily done...
I just went to BP and filled up with AdBlue at the pump.
Around 83c/L, little slower to fill than petrol / diesel, however it just clicks off at the end also.
Just remember to turn the ignition on for 30sec prior to starting the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster).

[ope126]

Just did another top-up of AdBlue as the range was down to 3,500kms and we are heading off on a 5,000km journey to Melbourne next week. Interesting, the price of AdBlue was now 99c/L at BP (at the pump). It has gone up 16c/L in 2mths...

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster).

[Rocket36]

Ah diesels and cities. Not the best of friends. The DPF issue is one of the least understood parts of diesel ownership in my experience and discussions with people. People are attracted to the claimed fuel figures, so buy a diesel. Then they hardly ever do longer trips.

[ope126]

Here is a link from the Volkswagen NZ website, should help you out; What is Adblue? - Volkswagen NZ (https://www.volkswagen.co.nz/adblue/)

[ope126]

Just did a top-up of AdBlue in the Wolfsburg as the range was down to 2,500kms (it took 9.75L). Interesting, the price of AdBlue is still 99c/L at BP (at the pump). It has remained the same for 2yrs now...

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster).

[ope126]

Just did a top-up of AdBlue in the Wolfsburg as the range was down to 3,000kms (it took 8.78L). Interesting, the price of AdBlue is still 99c/L at BP (at the pump). It has remained the same for well over 2yrs now...

They also had a Penrite 1L AdBlue bottle for special at $5 (normally $19.99rrp) - WOW!!!

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster) - Range now says 9,500kms.

[ope126]

Yet another top-up of AdBlue in the Wolfsburg as the range was down to 3,000kms (it took 11.71L this time, quite alot more than in the past). Interesting, the price of AdBlue remains at 99c/L at BP (at the pump). It has remained the same for well over 3yrs now...

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster) - Range now says 9,500kms.

[doc_777]

Yet another top-up of AdBlue in the Wolfsburg as the range was down to 3,000kms (it took 11.71L this time, quite alot more than in the past). Interesting, the price of AdBlue remains at 99c/L at BP (at the pump). It has remained the same for well over 3yrs now...

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster) - Range now says 9,500kms.

it’s an interesting myth that one, about needing to leave the ignition on for 30 seconds to register the refill of adblue. I’ve never done it and never had an issue,

[ope126]

it’s an interesting myth that one, about needing to leave the ignition on for 30 seconds to register the refill of adblue. I’ve never done it and never had an issue,

Glad that works for you...
I have heard a few people online have issues with the refilling of the AdBlue, causing further issues down the line such as the car not being able to start due to it not resetting properly.
For me, I am happy to follow the manufacturers instruction and put it out there for others in case they do not read the manual...

Are you enjoying the A4? Lovely car!

[ope126]

Yet another top-up of AdBlue in the Wolfsburg as the range was down to 4,500kms (it only took 7.95L this time). Interesting, the price of AdBlue still remains at 99c/L at BP (at the pump). It has remained the same for well over 6yrs now...

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster) - Range now says 11,500kms.

[ope126]

Yet another top-up of AdBlue in the Wolfsburg as the range was down to 2,500kms with the warning tone / message on Start up (it actually took 12.53L this time). Interesting, the price of AdBlue still remains at 99c/L at BP (at the pump). It has remained the same for well over 6yrs now...

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster) - Range now says 12,500kms.

[shonggie]

interesting that your prices up in QLD is that high, i paid 59c/L of add blue here in VIC. i managed to get as low as 100KM for add blue, (yes i know very dangerously low...) and i made it just in time, was really worried due to the levels being so low that it wouldhave crusted and i wouldhave been SOL. otherwise mangaged to get about 12K kms on the tank!

[ope126]

So just to keep this thread "alive" and on topic regarding AdBlue, there is a manufacturing shortage at the moment as most would know. Even a local manufacturer; Penrite is unable to source the vital ingredients (Urea) to complete their batch's (as told to me on the phone today). Most / if not all retailers have no stock as it has all been bought up in retail packs. Even BP (where I go) is now setting a limit of 50L to ration off the remaining amount they have. Personally, I have about 10L of AdBlue at home (12mth shelf life) and will hopefully see this through. Let's see how this pans out...

[ope126]

Just an update, went to the BP to get some diesel and noticed the pricing on the AdBlue pump has risen for the first time in nearly 5yrs, now 1.599$/L. Also, they only had two 1L retail packs of AdBlue for sale and they were priced at $15.99 each! Oh, price of diesel 1.679$/L...

[bahgoogen]

Conveniently just had my online adblue order cancelled, right when the warning light has come on. So i've started to call around to see who has it at the pump. A few BP and a few Shell service stations in the West of Melbourne.
BP said the price is $2/L. Up it goes!

[bahgoogen]

Update again, BP had sold out, but found some at the Shell in Yarraville for $2.99/L!
At least 10L gets us around 10,000km's... so hopefully this has sorted itself out by then!

[Lucas_R]

Update again, BP had sold out, but found some at the Shell in Yarraville for $2.99/L!
At least 10L gets us around 10,000km's... so hopefully this has sorted itself out by then!

Well the price has gone through the roof, but as you said, thankfully the tank only holds roughly 10 L. Im glad my SQ5 was built a few months before the AdBlue was added to the production line.

[ope126]

If anyone has AdBlue in a retail bottle or in jerry can (I am Brisbane based), I have the Toledo Funnel for AdBlue - Angled Spout 1.1L.
I have had it for many years, however yet to use it. Happy to help someone who might be in need to fill their car...

305401 - Funnels | Toledo (https://www.tridon.com.au/products/Toledo/19/327666/drum-and-barrel-accessories/409950/funnels/446015/305401)

[ope126]

Yet another top-up of AdBlue in the Wolfsburg as the range was down to 3,500kms (it actually only needed 8.51L this time - as per the MFD). Interesting, the price of AdBlue has dropped form a recent high of $2.999 (May / June 2022) down to 1.999c/L at BP (at the pump). The availability of AdBlue has now returned and is readily available back at the Pump / Bowser and also in retail shops such as Repco / Supercheap Auto etc...

BP Ultimate Diesel was $1.91c/L today also, down from highs around $2.35c/L back in May / June 2022.

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster) - Range now says 9,500kms.

[ope126]

Yet another top-up of AdBlue in the Wolfsburg as the range was down to 2,500kms. Interesting, the price of AdBlue has dropped form a recent high of $2.999 (May / June 2022) down to 1.999c/L at BP (at the pump). The availability of AdBlue has now returned and is readily available back at the Pump / Bowser and also in retail shops such as Repco / Supercheap Auto etc...

Just always remember to turn the ignition "on" for 30sec prior to "starting" the car after topping up AdBlue (re-sets the info in cluster) - Range now says 11,000kms.