Clarifying an issue with lift and Tire size

[Bryn23]

Well I’m looking to see if I’ve interpreted the QLD transport guide correctly.

I’m looking at getting a T6 4 Motion to convert into a camper with the Bilstein 30mm lift…, as I am looking at putting in a side cassette lift (under the chassis) for wheelchair access. not ideal, but want a side lift so i can put a fixed bed in it.

I’m looking at max height for ground clearance. Will look at making up a 4mm aluminium bash plate for the lift.

Also Looking at upgrading to the 3.2 GVM model, due to the wheelchair lift weighing 140kg. due want to be over once I do a camper conversion.

Instead of the Factory 235/55/17 tires OD 690mm I was looking at a set of

235/65/17 697 Bridgestone Duelers OD 738mm 108 Load rated…. this would give me another 24mm hight, for a total of 54mm raise.

Had Bridgestone 697 on my Hilux. And on my CRV, they have never let me down. And it is a pain in the ass to change tires when your wheelchair bound.

Any issues… from what I read as a AWD I can lift max of 50mm and the tire size should be no more than 50mm than original, if I’ve read the QLD rules right.

Seikel make a oversized spare wheel carrier up to 235/65/R17, so keeping a same sized spare isn’t going to be an issue as I know from my WRX days, you can’t run different sized tires on AWD.

The Seikel Lift guide from their website, shows that the combo of the 30mm lift and the tires are just below the minor mod’s

The big question is how much power would I lose, due to the larger rolling diameter…? the 400TDi should help... your thoughts.

Jax tyre link to QLD transport rules
https://www.jaxtyres.com.au/tyres/tips/plus-one-tyre-sizing-learn-how-to-plus-size-tyres-wheels

Seikel Lift kit Guide
http://www.seikel.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Höherlegungswerte_T5-T6_2015-10_1221_engl.pdf (http://www.seikel.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/H%C3%B6herlegungswerte_T5-T6_2015-10_1221_engl.pdf)


Cheers,

Bryn

[Sunny43.5]

Do you need the lift for the under floor or could you use a ramp ? we have two disabled children both in Wheelchairs and we use the ramp seen in our last vans conversion here http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f136/new-t5-project-80976-2.html They are from a supplier in Sydney and are built in the US . I used to do wheelchair conversions for Maxi Taxis on the Gold Coast and they are incredibly heavy along with awkward fitting . The ramp only weighs around 18kg depending on length , best part is they fold so easily and only have a small footprint and can be removed and transferred to a new vehicle later . I fitted one for another VW owner with a son who could drive his own powered chair the kid loved it . They can be fitted at the side door or the rear tailgate .

[Bryn23]

Do you need the lift for the under floor or could you use a ramp ? we have two disabled children both in Wheelchairs and we use the ramp seen in our last vans conversion here http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f136/new-t5-project-80976-2.html They are from a supplier in Sydney and are built in the US . I used to do wheelchair conversions for Maxi Taxis on the Gold Coast and they are incredibly heavy along with awkward fitting . The ramp only weighs around 18kg depending on length , best part is they fold so easily and only have a small footprint and can be removed and transferred to a new vehicle later . I fitted one for another VW owner with a son who could drive his own powered chair the kid loved it . They can be fitted at the side door or the rear tailgate .

Hi Sunny,

I have read you post's about the ramp, ramps work fine if an able body is putting the ramp back in place.

But as I'm a Para, with stuffed shoulders from 16 years of putting up with pulling apart and throwing my chair in the passenger seat, I'm looking to reduce the load on my shoulders.

Plus ill be doing a trip around Aussie by myself, while the wife is doing some more study.

I've back packed though the UK for 3 months by myself, i use to take my boat out by myself, until is sold it and got a SxS Can Am... I value my independence,

I just try to cover all bases so i don't come unstuck...

Hence why i'm looking at better durable tires, more lift and a bash plate for the lift... it's costs a bit more... cost a bit more, but i like to be prepared.

Cheers,

[Sunny43.5]

No problem while driving today it came into my mind that you may have been independent so the ramp would not help , good luck with your conversion .

[Guest001]

One thing you will have to take into account with a 50mm larger tyre is the fact it will alter your speedo to read slower by up to 6kph at 100kph.
My Polo is 6 k fast and I worked it out that tyres 45mm larger would bring it nearly back to correct.

Also it is illegal to have a speedo that reads LESS than actual speed

Here is an excellent calculator to work it out Will also will show different offsets etc

https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

[Bryn23]

One thing you will have to take into account with a 50mm larger tyre is the fact it will alter your speedo to read slower by up to 6kph at 100kph.
My Polo is 6 k fast and I worked it out that tyres 45mm larger would bring it nearly back to correct.

Also it is illegal to have a speedo that reads LESS than actual speed

Here is an excellent calculator to work it out Will also will show different offsets etc

https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

that is a handy calculator.

I'll call VW tomorrow to see if they can Adjust the speedo, and how much it'll cost to recalibrate.

It's funny how it illegal to have a speedo that is slower, all my cars have been slower, when i compare it to GPS... although i don't mind being a little under, saves on spending tickets.

My main concern is if I've read the QLD transport reg's right about the AWD and i can run up to 50mm tires..

I'll give my local tire guy a call, he should know.

[Bryn23]

I got a quote from Trakka today for a Seikel oversized tire holder today for the T6...

$950...

in aussie, it it's for a VW, they charge like its for a Porsche.

[Sunny43.5]

You may be overthinking this issue the only way QLD transport would find out your speedo was wrong would be to spend a huge amount of time and money putting your van over a test pit and running it on a dyno thing .
I would doubt VW will be able to recalibrate the speedo as they will not leave themselves open to a claim if it ever arose . Say you got pulled over for speeding and you told the police that VW changed the speedo that would make the dealer responsible and believe me they WILL not even entertain that sort of thing . I found that out when I fitted a genuine cruise control to our van the dealer refused point blank to do the coding because they would be liable if something went wrong , luckily Jmac did the coding for me .
Tyres again it would be a rare thing to get into much trouble , lets face it any mongrel who would book a disabled driver for such a small thing should be shot !!! Yes I know all about ADR's etc I worked with Qld Transport for 20 years doing all sorts of modifications under the Authorised Officers scheme . I have been pulled over in RBTs and a couple of speeding tickets over the last ten years in my VW and guess what it has HOLDEN Commodore wheels fitted even has the Holden Lion Logo in the centre caps and not one police man has ever said a single word and they have looked !! Admits here one even asked why the Holden wheels as I explained they were off a V8 powered one tone ute so they would easily match any specs required , even my insurance company ignored the wheels when the van was in for a ten thousand dollar repair .

[Guest001]

that is a handy calculator.

I'll call VW tomorrow to see if they can Adjust the speedo, and how much it'll cost to recalibrate.

It's funny how it illegal to have a speedo that is slower, all my cars have been slower, when i compare it to GPS... although i don't mind being a little under, saves on spending tickets.

My main concern is if I've read the QLD transport reg's right about the AWD and i can run up to 50mm tires..

I'll give my local tire guy a call, he should know.

You are misinterpreting "slower"

Your speedo can read up to 10% +- 4% fast but not less than actual speed. At 100kph on my GPS and my Canbus speed on my RNS510 the speedo says 106kph which is legal. If it said 97 it would be illegal and you would be getting tickets for speeding.
Some models it can be calibrated with a VCDS I tried on both of mine and it wouldnt alter it even though it appeared to accept the alterations

I would ring QLD TMR and ask them After all they make the rules.

Look in the QLD rules for your vehicles classification Here it is


• any medium weight goods vehicle (NA2, NB ADR category).

Must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle
manufacturer for that vehicle.

So what category is your vehicle

[Guest001]

You may be overthinking this issue the only way QLD transport would find out your speedo was wrong would be to spend a huge amount of time and money putting your van over a test pit and running it on a dyno thing .
I would doubt VW will be able to recalibrate the speedo as they will not leave themselves open to a claim if it ever arose . Say you got pulled over for speeding and you told the police that VW changed the speedo that would make the dealer responsible and believe me they WILL not even entertain that sort of thing . I found that out when I fitted a genuine cruise control to our van the dealer refused point blank to do the coding because they would be liable if something went wrong , luckily Jmac did the coding for me .
Tyres again it would be a rare thing to get into much trouble , lets face it any mongrel who would book a disabled driver for such a small thing should be shot !!! Yes I know all about ADR's etc I worked with Qld Transport for 20 years doing all sorts of modifications under the Authorised Officers scheme . I have been pulled over in RBTs and a couple of speeding tickets over the last ten years in my VW and guess what it has HOLDEN Commodore wheels fitted even has the Holden Lion Logo in the centre caps and not one police man has ever said a single word and they have looked !! Admits here one even asked why the Holden wheels as I explained they were off a V8 powered one tone ute so they would easily match any specs required , even my insurance company ignored the wheels when the van was in for a ten thousand dollar repair .

Its not QLD TMR that you have to worry about, Its the speed cameras with their low tolerance. If your speedo is reading 96 and you are actually doing 101 you will be in trouble if you then do 100 on the speedo and you are actually doing about 105.

Thats what I was getting at. My Landcruiser was spot on at 100 so if I put bigger tyres on I would have had to be very careful.

As far as rims and tyres are concerned as long as they meet or exceed the load and speed specs for the vehicle you wont have problems with Mr Plod. However if you stick wide rims with incorrect offset they could foul the body on turns.

[Sunny43.5]

I rarely rely on my speedo as stated under ADR's they can be plus or minus by a margin , I have three different readings in my work van Speedo reading 100kmh GPS telling me its 96kmh or so . Then using an ODB reader which gives my speed on a HUD on the windscreen it gives around 98/99 kmh so it is all over the shop . Best bet is to use GPS over a set distance and compare the readout . The only times I have been done for speeding is when I was asleep at the wheel so to speak just plain forgot to have look when in a 60 zone , three tickets over ten year period and around 500000 kms in two vans so not too bad methinks . These days I have changed the tolerance in the GPS so I get warnings when approaching +5% of the posted limit so at 61 kmh a 60 symbol turns red on the GPS when 63 I get a nagging woman telling me I "Your over the speed limit " so I trust the GPS because the speedo just clams up ! The HUD is great at night as I turn down all the instrument lights and have the speed / tacho right in front of me saves from having to keep looking down at the dash . Note here for Qld there is still a tolerance with the various types of speed detection devices but it has been lowered recently so you need to be careful . NSW now that's a whole different ball game , I work in the Northern Rivers area from time to time and stick right on the limit EXACTLY and I use the cruise control every where .

[Guest001]

I rarely rely on my speedo as stated under ADR's they can be plus or minus by a margin , I have three different readings in my work van Speedo reading 100kmh GPS telling me its 96kmh or so . Then using an ODB reader which gives my speed on a HUD on the windscreen it gives around 98/99 kmh so it is all over the shop . Best bet is to use GPS over a set distance and compare the readout . The only times I have been done for speeding is when I was asleep at the wheel so to speak just plain forgot to have look when in a 60 zone , three tickets over ten year period and around 500000 kms in two vans so not too bad methinks . These days I have changed the tolerance in the GPS so I get warnings when approaching +5% of the posted limit so at 61 kmh a 60 symbol turns red on the GPS when 63 I get a nagging woman telling me I "Your over the speed limit " so I trust the GPS because the speedo just clams up ! The HUD is great at night as I turn down all the instrument lights and have the speed / tacho right in front of me saves from having to keep looking down at the dash . Note here for Qld there is still a tolerance with the various types of speed detection devices but it has been lowered recently so you need to be careful . NSW now that's a whole different ball game , I work in the Northern Rivers area from time to time and stick right on the limit EXACTLY and I use the cruise control every where .

I also have a HUD and its set 1k above Canbus speed to be really safe.
QLD tolerance is pretty low as I got a ticket for 4 k over in a 60 zone. I swear it was the car outside me that was passing me but just paid up anyway.

Cruise is at speedo speed unless adjusted to compensate for incorrect readout. At 110 true I run on 116 and HUD reads 111 to keep the narks away. ( So Far)

[Sunny43.5]

Exactly the same as me , my last infringement was a dubious one as the photo showed two cars side by side but I got the ticket . Again only a few kays over but life goes on , interesting thing and I am not making an excuse here . I drove through the same place on the Gold Coast at Broadbeach yesterday , yes there were sign warning of the camera but in that area there also multiple other signs along the road plus the light rail in the middle of the road with all of its warning signs and turn signals . By the time you have finished focussing on the light rail and also needing to find where I was going to turn in a strange area those warning signs were just more background clutter .

[Murphenzo]

First question, don't worry about losing any power with the larger wheels and tires. It really doesn't make the much of a different. Noticeable....yes. But it's not much.

On tire sizing, it's not because it's an AWD that you can go larger on the tires, it's the vehicle class under the ADRs. If I recall correctly the transporters are NC2 and they are allowed a 50mm increase in tire diameter, same as a 4WD (whatever their ADR class is). Thought it worth mentioning that in case you ever get questioned.

I didn't bother recalibrating the speedo on mine. I just know that the speedo reads about 1.5% low (factory it reads 5% high). It's no big deal. I've never been questioned on the tire size by the police.

Last but not least, you can get a 738mm tire into the standard spare tire holder, it's just not easy. It needs to be deflated and you need to jack it into place.

If you'd like to see a T5 with the suspension and wheel setup you're talking about, I fly back into Brisbane tomorrow and will be around until the following weekend. Happy to give you a look.

[Bryn23]

Hi Murphenzo,

From reading the ADR's it looked like it was fine for the 50mm increase. i just want to make sure that i read it correctly..

I did come across a few slightly smaller tires such as 225/65/R17 724.3mm OD and 235/60/R17 714mm OD all with the Correct Load Rating, that could work without the spare tire deflation issue or having to spend big $$ on the Oversized tire mount.

Although even those sizes may hit the inner guard without the offset change on standard rims.

I'm free all week, so send me a PM with contact details and ill come out to you, whenever you are free and when its not a hassle, I live in the CBD, so it not far out to East Brisbane.

Cheers and thanks for the offer.

[Big Bug]

I have a manual 6 speed 2014 4Motion transporter with 235/65/17's and as Murph says the difference is noticeable. I do quite a bit of gear changing on the highway. Seem to need to be doing 100kph to change into 6th, any lower and the van feels "uncomfortable" so do a lot more 5th gear driving. If I had DSG I would be investigating this 2003-2015 (T5) : Harding Performance DSG Software - VW Transporter 7 speed DQ500 - 2.0 BiTDI/TDI Vehicles (http://www.hp.net.au/hp/index.php/products/vehicles/vw/transporter/2003-2015-t5/harding-performance-dsg-software-hardware-program-dq500-transporter-multivan-stock-power-level-vehicles-detail)
I like the look of the lower speed 1st gear. May have gone DSG if I had seen that before I ordered the manual.

Bruce CQ

[Murphenzo]

I'm free all week, so send me a PM with contact details and ill come out to you, whenever you are free and when its not a hassle, I live in the CBD, so it not far out to East Brisbane.

Cheers and thanks for the offer.
Sorry, it's been a bit of a mad week. There might be some time this arvo. I'll let you know.
Cheers. Justin.

[Bryn23]

Sorry, it's been a bit of a mad week. There might be some time this arvo. I'll let you know.
Cheers. Justin.

Thanks Justin,

I'm going to have to give it a miss, i've got the flu at the moment, and its a bad one, so I'm not going anywhere, don't want to spend it.

I've got enough info from here and pictures to make a decision, the Seikel Kit will work for me.

Although, i think ill go the BFG 225/65/R17, 724mm OD 107 Load Rating, as this will be a happy medium solution for my needs.

Less Power drop than the 235/65R17, speedo's only out by 3%, and i'd like to think there would be less stress on the DSG.

NZ's an awesome place, What work do you do there? We Lived up in Coromandel, Cracker of a Place

[Murphenzo]

No worries mate, best to take it easy! Ground clearance with the Seikel kit really isn't an issue in these things, so I don't think you'll miss the couple of mm smaller diameter with the smaller tire. Mine is never on it's belly on any of the beach tracks (there's always someone lower that's been sweeping them) and it surprisingly hasn't been an issue on some of the rougher off road tracks I've done so far. I think if I did it all again I'd try to squeeze a slightly wider tire in there for a little more foot print on the sand. I think a 255 could just be doable, 245 definitely.

Agreed on NZ! I loved the place. I was down in Dunedin working on a new SCADA system for one of the power utilities. It's gorgeous area with plenty to do if you love the outdoors and the people are really awesome. A lot of fun! The coromandel is a beautiful area. I'll be heading up there later in the year for a little bit of travel off the back on the next stint on this job. Looking forward to it!

[Toa84]

I have a manual 6 speed 2014 4Motion transporter with 235/65/17's and as Murph says the difference is noticeable. I do quite a bit of gear changing on the highway. Seem to need to be doing 100kph to change into 6th, any lower and the van feels "uncomfortable" so do a lot more 5th gear driving. If I had DSG I would be investigating this 2003-2015 (T5) : Harding Performance DSG Software - VW Transporter 7 speed DQ500 - 2.0 BiTDI/TDI Vehicles (http://www.hp.net.au/hp/index.php/products/vehicles/vw/transporter/2003-2015-t5/harding-performance-dsg-software-hardware-program-dq500-transporter-multivan-stock-power-level-vehicles-detail)
I like the look of the lower speed 1st gear. May have gone DSG if I had seen that before I ordered the manual.

Bruce CQ
Big Bug

What rims did you use to fit the 235/65R17 under the wheel arches and do the tyres scrub on full lock?

Thanks

Sent from my R7g using Tapatalk

[Big Bug]

Big Bug

What rims did you use to fit the 235/65R17 under the wheel arches and do the tyres scrub on full lock?

Thanks

Sent from my R7g using Tapatalk

I just put them on the standard rims. They only seem to scrub on the drivers side doing a full lock left turn. That could be because I had a local bloke make me an engine protection guard and I had to make a piece for it that goes up into the wheel well to stop anything getting in and wrecking the belts on the drivers side of the engine.

Bruce CQ.

[Bryn23]

Well, I spoke to the local tire guy on friday to get a price on some load rated alloy rims and he asked what tires i wanted.

told him i was looking at 225/65R17 BFG's AT. so we get past the whole it's not a 4WD thing, the VW Transporter is a N plated vehicle, so all good.

Ask's me if its got ESC (electric stability control). the T6 has ESP and according to QLD Transport, You can lift up to 50mm, but no tire lift...

So i double checked when i got home as i thought i'd sorted out the seikel lift and small tire increase was all good:banana:

Here is a copy paste of the QLD transport info, and also the original document.

I think he is right, the way i have read the document is it is a lift or tire increase, but not both:mad:

Lowering or Raising of Vehicles
A vehicle’s suspension can be raised or lowered by 50mm without specific approval, provided:
• at least two thirds of the original suspension travel in either direction is maintained
• coil springs remain in locating seats on full suspension droop
• the normal relationship between the front and rear suspension heights is
not unduly affected
• replacement springs have the same or greater load capacity as the original springs
• suspension coil springs are not shortened by cutting or heating
• leaf spring suspensions are not raised by the use of extended shackles, adjustable metal plates or by placing the
leaf springs to the opposite side of the axle
• if lowering blocks are used, they are either steel or aluminium
• the vehicle maintains a minimum running clearance of 100mm and the requirements in Australian Design Rule (ADR) 43 are met*
• the suspension of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, suspension and body block, etc).
*Generally, a vehicle which maintains a minimum clearance of 100mm between the ground and any point on the underside of the vehicle (except a point on a tyre, wheel, wheel hub, brake backing plate or flexible mudguard or mudflap) will meet ADR 43.
For more information regarding ground clearance and running clearance please refer to the LS section of the National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification.

Alternative Rims and Tyres
Many vehicle owners like to replace the vehicle’s original rims and tyres with alternatives of different width, diameter and profile.
The following sub-sections outline the legal requirements for replacement rims and tyres fitted to a passenger car or derivative, or to an off-road passenger car (not including a light commercial vehicle), which will ensure your vehicle continues to comply with Queensland legislation, while allowing for your individual preferences.
For a passenger car, passenger car derivative or ‘soft roader’ (an all-wheel
drive vehicle that may be certified as MC ADR category), the overall diameter
of any tyre fitted must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model.
The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:
• a 4WD passenger vehicle specifically designed for off-road use (MC ADR category other than a ‘soft roader’);
• a 4WD goods vehicle and its 2WD equivalent if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD version (N ADR category); or
• medium weight goods vehicle (NA2, NB ADR category);
must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle. Tyre diameters of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, tyre and body block, etc).







https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjLw8XA0ODPAhVFHGMKHcFNAWcQFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tmr.qld.gov.au%2F-%2Fmedia%2FSafety%2FVehicle-standards-and-modifications%2FVehicle-standards%2FVehicle-standards-instructions%2FG19.pdf%3Fla%3Den&usg=AFQjCNEWTtRf_qZz3U9ns4qtUVwwS8tWew&bvm=bv.135974163,d.cGc (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjLw8XA0ODPAhVFHGMKHcFNAWcQFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tmr.qld.gov.au%2F-%2Fmedia%2FSafety%2FVehicle-standards-and-modifications%2FVehicle-standards%2FVehicle-standards-instructions%2FG19.pdf%3Fla%3Den&usg=AFQjCNEWTtRf_qZz3U9ns4qtUVwwS8tWew&bvm=bv.135974163,d.cGc)

[Markee]

I just found and read this Modifying 4wd tyres and suspension legally - Offroad Aussie (http://www.offroadaussie.com/2015/02/modifying-4wd-tyres-and-suspension-legally/)
and this Modify tyres and suspension legally Part 2 - Offroad Aussie (http://www.offroadaussie.com/2016/01/modify-tyres-and-suspension-legally-part-2/)
after reading Vicroads version of QLD link above and to me anything up to 50mm is now fine on vehicles with ESC.

[Guest001]

I just found and read this Modifying 4wd tyres and suspension legally - Offroad Aussie (http://www.offroadaussie.com/2015/02/modifying-4wd-tyres-and-suspension-legally/)
and this Modify tyres and suspension legally Part 2 - Offroad Aussie (http://www.offroadaussie.com/2016/01/modify-tyres-and-suspension-legally-part-2/)
after reading Vicroads version of QLD link above and to me anything up to 50mm is now fine on vehicles with ESC.

Those articles are referring to West Australian modification and as we well know what applies in one state may be totally different in the others.
As you are in Brisbane the QLD rules apply and on reading them you can go to 50mm by ONE of Two methods but NOT both together. So a suspension lift OR larger tyres but NOT both.

[Bryn23]

So Hillbilly, i have read it right :(

The 30mm Seikel lift or 225/65/R17 BFG KO2 tires.... i was about to put my order in for the Seikel Maxi Lift Kit as I've been given a build date from the dealer...

i want both:mad:, but want to be legal.

[Guest001]

So Hillbilly, i have read it right :(

The 30mm Seikel lift or 225/65/R17 BFG KO2 tires.... i was about to put my order in for the Seikel Maxi Lift Kit as I've been given a build date from the dealer...

i want both:mad:, but want to be legal.

Well to me the bold print bit says it fairly plainly • the suspension of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, suspension and body block, etc).

To do anything else would require certification (if its possible) Ring the TMR and ask for the Technical dept and ask them for their version of the rule. After all they are the ones who enforce it

[Bryn23]

Well to me the bold print bit says it fairly plainly • the suspension of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, suspension and body block, etc).

To do anything else would require certification (if its possible) Ring the TMR and ask for the Technical dept and ask them for their version of the rule. After all they are the ones who enforce it

I did seem clear to me, i was just hoping i'd read it wrong.

I've read the rules before, and thought i was all good, but i didn't take the ESC into account, as i assumed a commercial van didn't have ESC.

I just have to decide what is more important, lift or tire size.

i will double check tomorrow with QLD transport, maybe there is a compromise of 50mm overall, say 30mm lift and 15-20mm taller tires...

but i doubt it.

[Sunny43.5]

Without wanting to make a big deal out of this subject I wonder if you are worrying a bit too much about how close to the regulations you can skirt . I used to hold a Qld Transport vehicle modification certification and believe me the rules are somewhat overlooked unless its a critical safety breach . Now for instance my VW T5 work van has Holden Crewman alloy wheels fitted with correct load rated tyres . I have had one major insurance claim for severe damage done when the van rolled away down our hill {don't ask } insurance did not give a toss about the wheels even though they have Holden insignias in the centre caps . I have also lost track of how many times I have been pulled over for RBT and other inspections by the police and never had any problems . I know that it would be an important thing in some peoples minds to keep right up to the letter of the law , but when you see all these cars that have been lowered so far and have no suspension left ie 19inch wheels or bigger on Commodores with 1 inch of rubber between the rims and the roads what you are proposing would be well and truly overlooked . Unless you are going to draw attention to your self by doing wheelies and other hoon things you have a one in a million chance of being picked up for a few mm out of specs . The only time that the letter of the law might be used is if someone was killed as a result of the modification .

[Guest001]

There is usually no problem with different wheels provided they meet or exceed the original wheel specs.

I ran after market Mags on my Falcon Taxis and the inspector wanted to see the ratings before passing them.

However should you have an accident with illegal mods such as proposed and the vehicle falls over, for instance, the noose might tighten.

You can have bigger rims with low profile rubber bands and still be legal even if looking completely stupid.

I prefer to know Im legal and not have to hold my breath if stopped.

Had an instance in NZ in a diesel when a cop pulled me over for no reason other than I was a taxi from a different city and he wondered what I was doing there. The only thing he looked at was my Road user Tax label which due to me not renewing it before the 900km trip, was in arrears. He warned me but the fine would have been triple what was owed at the time. Didnt do that again.

[Bryn23]

Without wanting to make a big deal out of this subject I wonder if you are worrying a bit too much about how close to the regulations you can skirt . I used to hold a Qld Transport vehicle modification certification and believe me the rules are somewhat overlooked unless its a critical safety breach . Now for instance my VW T5 work van has Holden Crewman alloy wheels fitted with correct load rated tyres . I have had one major insurance claim for severe damage done when the van rolled away down our hill {don't ask } insurance did not give a toss about the wheels even though they have Holden insignias in the centre caps . I have also lost track of how many times I have been pulled over for RBT and other inspections by the police and never had any problems . I know that it would be an important thing in some peoples minds to keep right up to the letter of the law , but when you see all these cars that have been lowered so far and have no suspension left ie 19inch wheels or bigger on Commodores with 1 inch of rubber between the rims and the roads what you are proposing would be well and truly overlooked . Unless you are going to draw attention to your self by doing wheelies and other hoon things you have a one in a million chance of being picked up for a few mm out of specs . The only time that the letter of the law might be used is if someone was killed as a result of the modification .

Your right, most of the time it is overlooked, but on the off chance, there was a major accident, then it comes into play.

I've been through that, when i was a passenger in a van accident and due to a serious injury, the police crash unit analysed the van. it was a stock van, so no non compliance van issues on that front. but they did check everything from tires, tread eta. to determine the cause of the crash..

I know that there are a lot of people out there running lowered cars, legal or not, I just want to know that to the best of my ability that I've done the right thing legally.

[Bryn23]

I spoke to QLD Transport, The guy in Technical, confirmed it, So I'm going to get the lift for now and then look at bigger tires.

As for exemptions, I can complete a F1854 form to try and get both, but you need good reasons and even then as he said, it's a long shot.

Even thought the 225/65R17 tires (34mm overall diameter increase and 17mm height increase) and 30mm Seikel lift only give you a lift of approx 47mm combined.

It's worth trying, as i can't technically see how having both under 50mm is any different to just the one at the same height.

[Sunny43.5]

I understand your logic and yes the legal issue if the mod was contributing to a serious accident is definitely not worth taking a chance for .

[Guest001]

I spoke to QLD Transport, The guy in Technical, confirmed it, So I'm going to get the lift for now and then look at bigger tires.

As for exemptions, I can complete a F1854 form to try and get both, but you need good reasons and even then as he said, it's a long shot.

Even thought the 225/65R17 tires (34mm overall diameter increase and 17mm height increase) and 30mm Seikel lift only give you a lift of approx 47mm combined.

It's worth trying, as i can't technically see how having both under 50mm is any different to just the one at the same height.

Which bit about one or the other but NOT BOTH do you not understand.

Obviously the technical people have a better understanding of vehicle dynamics than the average driver.

Always someone trying to circumvent the rules, often to their detriment.

[Bryn23]

Which bit about one or the other but NOT BOTH do you not understand.

Obviously the technical people have a better understanding of vehicle dynamics than the average driver.

Always someone trying to circumvent the rules, often to their detriment.

I not trying to circumvent the rules...

I asked if it was possible to be both and he confirmed it was one or the other as per the paperwork, but said i would have to fill out form F1854 for it to be accessed for both, and yes the Technical guys go over it to see if it safe.

and if it is approved, said it could be a long shot, then it is legal...

there are heaps of exemptions out there with QLD transport, it depends on the modifications needed.

Plus i have good reasons, why I'm doing this, pm'ed

[Big Bug]

I must admit I glossed over the bit about the ESC.
If you take a look at the Seikel website Premium Partner - Seikel (http://www.seikel.de/ueber-seikel/premium-partner/?lang=eh) they are a Premium Partner of Volkswagen. One would hope that VW wouldn't be endorsing Seikel if the products they made for their vehicles were unsafe.

With regard to larger tyres Seikel say that their lift kits are mandatory for larger tyres, and those larger tyres go up to 245/70R17 which are 84mm increase in diameter over standard. So a 72mm lift overall. According to this.......
---- Part certificate from TÜV
We have the appropriate part certificates to ensure that the combination of tyres and wheel rims can be entered in the vehicle documents without any difficulties.
89,25 € (incl. tax)
75,00 € (ex. tax) -------

Now I realise that all this is academic as it's not Australia but it is interesting to note that there are hundreds of T5's driving around Germany without any problems and approved by the TUV, a tough regulator from what I understand and condoned by VW.

Now if you look at the specs of the Trakkadu ORP they fit the 30mm suspension lift and the 235/65R17 tyres. Now if that is legal in NSW's what happens when that van crosses the border into Qld??? They obviously have to change their tyres back to 235/55R17's....... As an aside I fitted a smoke alarm to my van because it is compulsory in NSW's, as far as I know not in Qld.

All food for thought.
Bruce CQ

[Guest001]

I must admit I glossed over the bit about the ESC.
If you take a look at the Seikel website Premium Partner - Seikel (http://www.seikel.de/ueber-seikel/premium-partner/?lang=eh) they are a Premium Partner of Volkswagen. One would hope that VW wouldn't be endorsing Seikel if the products they made for their vehicles were unsafe.

With regard to larger tyres Seikel say that their lift kits are mandatory for larger tyres, and those larger tyres go up to 245/70R17 which are 84mm increase in diameter over standard. So a 72mm lift overall. According to this.......
---- Part certificate from TÜV
We have the appropriate part certificates to ensure that the combination of tyres and wheel rims can be entered in the vehicle documents without any difficulties.
89,25 € (incl. tax)
75,00 € (ex. tax) -------

Now I realise that all this is academic as it's not Australia but it is interesting to note that there are hundreds of T5's driving around Germany without any problems and approved by the TUV, a tough regulator from what I understand and condoned by VW.

Now if you look at the specs of the Trakkadu ORP they fit the 30mm suspension lift and the 235/65R17 tyres. Now if that is legal in NSW's what happens when that van crosses the border into Qld??? They obviously have to change their tyres back to 235/55R17's....... As an aside I fitted a smoke alarm to my van because it is compulsory in NSW's, as far as I know not in Qld.

All food for thought.
Bruce CQ

A vehicle that is certified in one state is legal to use in the others whilst passing through as in a round the country trip. Eg you must have breakaway battery monitor in the cab if NSW registered but nowhere else. However you can drive through NSW in a QLD reg vehicle without problems.
If however you move interstate to live you only have so long to register and get recertified in that state and thats when the fun starts in a modified vehicle. What VW authorises in Europe is vastly different to what the rules are in Australia. Those tyre increases would be illegal Aus wide for starters.

Either observe the rules as they stand or choose another suitable vehicle would be the logical and safest way of doing it.

[Sunny43.5]

I like your response Big Bug the bit about each state having different rules is a bloody joke in my opinion , if we speed in any other state than our own we get points etc off our local license so why should their be different regs for each state . It should be uniform across the whole of Australia . Reminds me of twenty years ago when I was in the thick of the aftermarket sunroof business on the Gold coast , we fitted a dozen or more sunroofs into those dreadful Niki FSM cars for a rental company in Byron Bay . When the company went to get them registered NSW RTA refused to supply rego until I was able to show that I fitted the roofs to the manufacturers specifications from Holland . I got a letter from the Australian Distributors to show that I was approved and all was good with the RTA , meanwhile Qld transport could not give two hoots about sunroofs at the time as there were no guidelines in Qld regulations . I was on good relations with our local Qld Transport head inspector and I had a chat about sunroofs to him one day , his response was classic . He told me there were none unlike NSW and proposed that I write a set of guidelines and skew them towards our brand so it would make life hard for our opposition , I burst out laughing which he smiled at as well . In the end I didnt bother and as far as I know it is still the same to this very day NO written rules . ADR regs are Australia wide and apply to all states but modifications are handled by each state individually .

[Bryn23]

Yeah Big Bug, i thought i was all good until the ESC was brought up, never even thought about it, as it being a commercial van.

Like you said, its all academic, the national rules that were implemented in 2012 were suppose to align all the states, still hasn't happened.

You had to use form F1854, just to legally get a 30mm lift with ESC before they relaxed the current rules to self assess up to 50mm.

I also noticed that Frontline also do a 35mm Bilstien lift kit with 235/60R17 tires and it can be registered new in QLD, so Trakka aren't the only one, but as i believe as they are both ordered specially In by VWA and they are the secondary manufacturer's due to their camper modifications they are able to legally change tire sizes, if its done before first rego, although I'm not 100% on that.

All of it legal, just paperwork to make it legal.

If it is deemed legal in your state and you have a mod plate or you have paperwork to show the mod is certified, then you are free to drive in any state in Australia without removing mods.

Hopefully we will finally get a nationalised code that every state can agree on, not just cherry pick what they want at the moment and enforce.

[Big Bug]

Hopefully we will finally get a nationalised code that every state can agree on, not just cherry pick what they want at the moment and enforce.
Don't hold your breath on that one. I think the National Road Rules were introduced at the end of 1999. My Brother-in-Law who used to work for Qld Transport told me that discussions first started in 1951............ a quick internet search shows that the President of the NRMA wrote about it in their yearbook of 1933.

Hillybilly, I totally understand that what is allowed in Germany is not applicable here. I just find it fascinating that it is obviously regarded as perfectly safe to drive the T5 with those larger tyres and lift AND at unlimited speeds along an autobahn.

But you are right I shouldn't have bought the T5. I should have spent the money refurbishing my T3 syncro or buying a Trakkadu ORP for $137,000+.

Bruce CQ