I need duff duff

[Water Boy]

Ha ha ha,

Not really but my stock stereo when u turn it up loud it sounds like my skool PA system which is really loud and scretchy...

So i want to get a CD head unit, with detachable face and im also thinking about it having a USB port so i can just plug one in loaded with tunes...

I heard of all the brands, Kenwood, Pioneer, JL Audio, Pulk, Bose, Bluapunkt, Sony ect but which one?

I just wan2 to run 4 speckers front doors and back doors and nothing super funky and heavy...

Oh and also is there speckers in the dash of a Mk3?

Cheers James

ps I know some of the Vic boys work in car joints so could u hook a fellow dubber up...

[Soundofav6]

There are plenty of options, depending on your budget. If you want
to improve sound at low price. Get speakers instead of head unit.

Kenwood on the list makes good head unit, other option alpine and clarion makes good H/U too.

On the dash, they are not speakers but crappy fuzzy OEM tweeters, I suggest you change them too. I was going to leave them in but they mess up the sound image of my new speakers. Saw a pair of clarion 4" for $39 and clarion front split and rear speaker package for $110 at my local shop.

4" speakers fit perfectly.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2007/12/DSC06126-1.jpg

Tip: I was told to fit the same brand spearkers all round for the best effect.

[Water Boy]

Ahhh sweet as thanks mate... Ok iv got some speakers for the back doors of a friend today who was guna put em into his GL but never got round to it...

Looks like ill be getting a Head Unit... Im not on a huge budget but i dont want to be povo with cheap rubbish...

[rayray086]

I've noticed many audio shops having huge sale nights once in a while throughout the year. Your best bet would be to hunt out the head-unit you want and just wait until that time comes. Seeing it's post-Christmas now, I don't think you'll have to wait for long ;)

As with head-unit choice, Clarion seems to be my favourite. I've got one of their medium-range budget players and have found them to be easy to use with support for USB, line-in and MP3-CDs. However, the biggest factor that swayed me into getting their stuff is their OEM-look. The head-unit I have blends in really nicely with my stock interior. The lights are blue and white though.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2007/04/CIMG4957-1.jpg

Speakers, I went for the high-end budget components from Clarion too. It basically replaces the stock speakers completely; tweeters in the dash, woofer in the door cards. It came with a crossover unit (frequency splitter I think?) too. The sound was a ton better than stock, though still wasn't great when it was moderately loud.

Louis helped me out with wiring in the rear speakers and we hooked up the front woofers to it, enhancing the bass slightly. This made a noticeable increase in volume and now I'm quite happy with the sound! In all, I reckon you can spend no more than $400 for a very very decent sound system.

[Water Boy]

Yeah sweet as Raymond... So u have replaced head unit, speakers in dash and the front and rear door speakers?

Sounds good :D

[ScienceVR6]

Do you have speakers in the doors? (front) if so, i wouldn't bother putting 4" speakers in the dash, and getting some 6.5" splits for the doors, and mount the tweeters in the dash.

I'm loving VDO Dayton at the moment, the tweeters are realy mellow, and i like that. Not to mention that 4, 5.25 and 6.5" splits are all $99.
I have modified a set of 4" and a set of 6.5" to make a 3way split using cutom crossovers. Its not often you find 3 way splits for less that $500, but mine where under $200.

[rayray086]

I prefer splits too. They just seem more "pure" in a sense that a different speaker is relegated a specific sound frequency range.

James, yeah I've replaced the head-unit, front speakers (tweeters and woofer), and wired in rear speakers. My Golf never came with rear speakers nor the wiring!

[Jarred]

JL audio and bose makes good speakers. THat's the way that I would be heading with speakers. Pioneer are also good, and a bit cheaper too. If you feeling rich, get JBL speakers. Harder to find, cause they mainly do home theater stuff, but damn they are nice. Bang and Ofelsen is also good. An flipping expensive, and I don't think they do car audio. BUt damn they're good.

Head unit wise Apline and ken's are always pretty good quailty also clarion too. pioneer again, a respected brand.

Splits are good as the guys have mentioned; but are expensive. My bro recently got a new SS for his car, and he got a set of 4" free with the head unit, and then two 6" as well. So you might be able to get some free speakers with the H/U or something, or get a speaker "bundle" so to speak, but you'll have to look around for those.

If you go to JB (generally the place for a bargain..) and you buy a whole lot, the will give you a bigger discount, as well as a few bucks for paying in cash, and of corse, christmas and new years is always a good time to get a bargain with all the sales on etc.

[ScienceVR6]

I wouldn't touch bose, pioneer, or JBL in car audio. Its all crap. Especialy Pioneer speakers. as far as brand name stuff, Clarion, kenwood, Polk, hertz, Alpine, MB Quarts, Boston and a couple of others whose names escape me right now.

Like i said, i'm liking VDO, but i think i'm the only one:D

It all comes down to what falls into your price range, so shop around and have a listen to as many as you can, side by side.
You will be amazed the differance from one to anouther, at the same price, and how good you can get, for suprisingly little.

[Water Boy]

Ok i think i know what i want now i just gota go for a look... Can u run six speakers off the head unit?

Cheers James

[BlackVr6ix]

depends on your setup, if by six you mean rear doors, front doors and a tweeter in the dash then yes you can do that.

[Oneofthegreats]

Well I can say after I fitted my alpine setup, I'm more than happy with it. It cranks alright for what it is.

It cost me $440 for head unit, 6x9"'s, speaker cable, aerial cable, aerial, Ipod adapter etc.

I'll post up some pic's later if I get a chance in my audio thread.

[Water Boy]

depends on your setup, if by six you mean rear doors, front doors and a tweeter in the dash then yes you can do that.

Sweet... :D

[ScienceVR6]

You can, but it will mean you will lose control of 2 of them, as you will need to run 4 speakers off 2 channels. Also you will need a headunit that is 2 ohm stable, and i don't know how many of them are that good. Explain how you want to run 6 speakers, and i'll see if i can devise a way to do so.

[Golf Houso]

I've just got a decent alpine unit which replaced the $2 unit that I had in when I got the car, that sounded much like your "PA" unit. After that, the sound is drastically improved with alot more bass and clarity, but I still get distorion as the volume increases. I'll get an amp when I get paid.

[Mrk_Mickey]

Here's an explanation of the speaker setups, in a nutshell:D

All headunits have RCA Pre-outs. These are the outputs which run to your speakers that make them PLAY SOUND! Most headunits have 4 RCA Pre-outs which means you can run four seperate speakers. However as for some of the more special headunits, i THINK they can come with more pre-outs (i THINK..).

As for speakers, you get all the different types -the tweeters, the woofers (most speakers are these), or the splits (which are speakers with two or more separate speakers - mostly the woofer/tweeter set-up). Most speakers are simple and come as one piece; BUT, for some types of splits, the tweeters can be mounted separately. This is still essentially "one speaker" because the high/low frequencies are split up into the different speakers (tweeter/woofer respectively) for better sound efficiency.

To wire up speakers in a car, most people use one line per speaker. The pre-outs are almost always used in 4-ohm mode, which is just normal and is NOT worth explaining:D. Some headunits come with more options such as a 2-ohm mode. With 2-ohms, you can run "double the power", and therefore hook up two speakers to one line, but you have to "halve" the speaker ohmage, from 4-ohms to 8-ohms, so all the ohmage stuff matches up (the higher the ohms the lower the 'power' - ...it's complicated stuff..). It works well, especially for people like me who want a temporary fix to 6 speakers, a sub, and only one four-channel ampj:

SO. If you personally would like to play 6 speakers at once, and if you include the tweeters used in the dash as separate speakers, then yes it is possible to wire these up with a normal headunit (and it's recommended! I did it too - cheaper, and better sound - better than more speakers, because the high frequency sounds that come from speakers are more directional [and should be put higher - e.g dash, door cards]).
If however you want 6 SEPARATE sets of speakers, then you will need either a headunit with 6 pre-outs, or an amp. And naturally I would suggest the amp because you can plug more speakers into the amp and then it sounds awesome!

Hope this helps Water_Boy! Sorry if it's confusing..i've been reading about all this for ages as I'm really into car sound. My cuz and I are about to make a fiberglass mould for my sub just like Louis did! Yay for sound!

[Gigitt]

Eeeek!


Here's an explanation of the speaker setups, in a nutshell:D

All headunits have RCA Pre-outs. These are the outputs which run to your speakers that make them PLAY SOUND! Most headunits have 4 RCA Pre-outs which means you can run four seperate speakers. However as for some of the more special headunits, i THINK they can come with more pre-outs (i THINK..).


RCA Pre-Outs are audio outputs that you connect to external amplifiers.
The RCA leads carry the audio signal to the amplifier. The amplifier then powers the speakers.

Most headunits (HU) have 4x faded RCA Pre-outs (Front L+R and Rear L+R). Faded so as you can balance the sound front to rear and left to right.
Some Head units also have an aditional 2x Non-faded Sub RCA Pre-out (L+R) Which will bring total to 6 Pre-out RCA.

Also make note of the RCA Voltage output.
Crappy HU are <2V, You should get a HU with at least 2V Pre-out, 4V is better and some HU now come with 6V and rarely 8V. Make sure that the Amplifiers you choose will work with the HU RCA voltage...
Most Clarion HU are 4V, and I think this is becomming the common RCA voltage output.
Why... The higher the RCA Voltage the easier it is for you amplifier to amplify the audio output.
eg 2V RCA vs 4V RCA into same AMP at same HU sound level = 4V should be twice as loud!
A reason behind this is to reduce noise that might be introduced into the RCA leads from being amplified. 4V RCA will have less 'Signal to noise ratio' than 2V if the same noise is introduced into the RCA.
But a main reason is that the amp will run cooler and use less battery current as it not working as hard for the same sound level you hear.


As for speakers, you get all the different types -the tweeters, the woofers (most speakers are these), or the splits (which are speakers with two or more separate speakers - mostly the woofer/tweeter set-up). Most speakers are simple and come as one piece; BUT, for some types of splits, the tweeters can be mounted separately. This is still essentially "one speaker" because the high/low frequencies are split up into the different speakers (tweeter/woofer respectively) for better sound efficiency.


There are 3 types of speakers.
1) Most standard is the coaxial where the tweeter is mounted in front of the woofer cone and it is basically considered 1 speaker.
2) Splits where the woofer and tweeter (and in some cases a mid-range) are separate speakers all connected to a crossover that splits the audio frequencies to the correct speakers. Splits are used to bring the high range audio from the tweeters closer to the listeners ears as high range audio is directional... you dont want tweeter firing from the door straight at your feet as your feet do not have ears. Pont the tweeters up to you or mount them higher on the dash.
3) Subwoofers - doof doof


To wire up speakers in a car, most people use one line per speaker. The pre-outs are almost always used in 4-ohm mode, which is just normal and is NOT worth explaining:D. Some headunits come with more options such as a 2-ohm mode. With 2-ohms, you can run "double the power", and therefore hook up two speakers to one line, but you have to "halve" the speaker ohmage, from 4-ohms to 8-ohms, so all the ohmage stuff matches up (the higher the ohms the lower the 'power' - ...it's complicated stuff..). It works well, especially for people like me who want a temporary fix to 6 speakers, a sub, and only one four-channel ampj:


Speakers are not connected to RCA pre-out leads!!!
Speakers connect either from the Speaker outputs on the back of the HU (using the HU built in amplifier), or you connect your speakers to an external Amplifier. All speakers have 2 wires ... except those OEM speakers that do common negative grounding and are a PITA.



SO. If you personally would like to play 6 speakers at once, and if you include the tweeters used in the dash as separate speakers, then yes it is possible to wire these up with a normal headunit (and it's recommended! I did it too - cheaper, and better sound - better than more speakers, because the high frequency sounds that come from speakers are more directional [and should be put higher - e.g dash, door cards]).
If however you want 6 SEPARATE sets of speakers, then you will need either a headunit with 6 pre-outs, or an amp. And naturally I would suggest the amp because you can plug more speakers into the amp and then it sounds awesome!


You can have as many speakers you want in a car... but you are still only going to use Front L+R and Rear L+R (and Sub L+R) - unless you are into multimedia/DVD's and have 5.1 HU then you will also have a centre speaker.
How many speakers you run is up to you and the space needed to install them.
You then need to consider how to wire them up. HU will want to see only 4ohms per channel from the built in amplifier.
so you wire the speakers up into 4ohm configurations. (Most Car audio speakers are 4ohm).
If you use and external amplifier to drive multi speaker set ups, then you can run speakers at what ever ohms the amplifier can handle - just make sure you wire the speakers up acordingly... subwoofers can run 4, 2 or 1 ohm if your amp can handle it.

I have 11 speakers in my Mk3 Golf :) Split Fronts (Woofer and Tweeters), Split rears (Woofer, Mid and Tweeter) and Dual Voice coil Sub - does that count as 12 speakers then???




Hope this helps Water_Boy! Sorry if it's confusing..i've been reading about all this for ages as I'm really into car sound. My cuz and I are about to make a fiberglass mould for my sub just like Louis did! Yay for sound!

I fixed up some of your misconceptions.

[Mrk_Mickey]

Mate, there is no need to burn up my post. Sounds a bit silly anyway, because you basically just gave a confusing version of what i said:

I mentioned RCA Pre-outs, and you said they went to amplifiers. What about these "RCA PRE-OUTS"?

Most headunits (HU) have 4x faded RCA Pre-outs (Front L+R and Rear L+R).

I also mentioned the different types of speakers. What I was referring to was the types of speaker-cone-thing-whatevers, not style of speakers. Sorry I didn't make that more clear..





Speakers are not connected to RCA pre-out leads!!!
Speakers connect either from the Speaker outputs on the back of the HU (using the HU built in amplifier), or you connect your speakers to an external Amplifier.
SORRY. I said Pre-outs instead of speaker outs. It was wrong. However I didn't say RCA so my "SIMPLE" explanation still sounded alright..




You can have as many speakers you want in a car... but you are still only going to use Front L+R and Rear L+R (and Sub L+R) - unless you are into multimedia/DVD's and have 5.1 HU then you will also have a centre speaker.
How many speakers you run is up to you and the space needed to install them.
That's just starting to take stabs. I posted this for someone who wouldn't have stupid amounts of speakers. Think realistically..How many speakers will you really cram into one speaker output? We're talking no amplifiers here.


I have 11 speakers in my Mk3 Golf :) Split Fronts (Woofer and Tweeters), Split rears (Woofer, Mid and Tweeter) and Dual Voice coil Sub - does that count as 12 speakers then???
And here comes the derogatory comment.





I fixed up some of your misconceptions.
You actually said more confusing things (NOTE: I said simple explanation, ie dumbing down and generalising), correcting my one mistake of RCA pre-outs.

[Gigitt]

Dude... You do not know what RCA Pre-outs are!

It's information like this that confuse the newbies and they go blow up their speakers!

[Mrk_Mickey]

Then say that:) Don't try to correct everything I said cause it didn't all need to be corrected. All cooooooollll okay?

[Golf Houso]

Lol that was an amusing thread, I wonder why no one was warned there. Keep the slagging for another site, I learnt that the hard way...

Change of subject...

What is the best value for money audio enhancement product for a car? Head deck? Amp? Someone tell me since I'm such a tightarse :D

[Mrk_Mickey]

Hmmm...best value for money? Surely it's gotta be speakers..you can get better sound quality obviously for price of the speakers.

If you bought amp, you'd need cables, more labour time, and probably better speakers unless u just wanted to run your stocks off the amp.

you've got an alpine headunit, and unless you want to give that to me i wouldn't be changing if i were youj:

[Golf Houso]

[QUOTE}

you've got an alpine headunit, and unless you want to give that to me i wouldn't be changing if i were youj:[/QUOTE]

Hmnn good point, it is a rather good stereo anyway, I didn't realise until I had driven the car for a while. Hmnn I'll have to think about it some more...

[Mrk_Mickey]

[QUOTE}Hmnn I'll have to think about it some more...

I hope by that you don't mean think more about your headunit..I'm going to stick to the assumption that you're thinking more of speakers! When personal funds become available (j:) i shall be purchasing a lovely set of Kicker speakers from ebay. They'll work out to be 100 bucks per pair (two pairs), plus postage of maybe 80 bucks for the four speakers? that's cheaper than $220 a pair from JB HI-FI which is the only place i've seen them.

Mind you, this isn't very cheap..i'm looking for very good quality speakers because i'm amping them - if you're looking at amps, i might need to upgrade mine if you're at all interested..but if not, walk right into your nearest strathfield and see what they have to offer - speakers make a noticeable difference for, let's say, a good price!

[Elwoods 2LGL]

My Mega Low Budget Tightwad System does me just fine:D

My total cost so far is $90 give or take $2 for adhesive foam

Sony 4x45w CD Headunit ( $35 from cashies ) CDX something blah blah
Front 6"'s in doors were already there ( FREE - woot,woot! )
Front Tweeters in dash - with inbuilt crossovers - ( $10 Jaycar discount table )
Used Rear Panasonic 6x9's ( $20 mt gravatt markets )
Massive Fujitsu10 4 Channel Amp ( $25 rocklea markets )
12 Inch Blaupunkt 400w rms Subs ( FREE from a mate if i repaired one of the 12's) loaded into a dual 12 carpeted slimline angled cabinet

I got the particular Sony head unit because when you use the RCA SUB out from the onboard crossover, it applies a low frequency cut off for the onboard amp channels ( Front splits and Rear 6x9's are run on headunit cut off at 80htz )(if youre not sure - that means the lower bass frequencies are cut off at that pre determined frequency ie 80htz here)
This also means the head unit sucks less power when its turned up quite loud
( ever seen the lights on your headunit dimm to the bass ?)

The Fujitsu 10 amp is a 4 channel unit and is running in dual bridge mono mode IE using it as a 2 channel amp to provide a bridged channel for each of the Blaupunkt 400w rms subs in the boot - Always make sure your amp has a good fused positive source from the engine bay and a secure local earth ( No the screws holding it down arent enough:mad: )

The sub is pretty heavy so I just stapled some velcro on the bottom of it and it grips damn firmly to the boot carpet ( it lifts out the whole boot floor when you take the sub out)

If you put your head back in the seat it shakes your eyeballs with a bass kick and thats loud enough for me


Wiring
Head unit - used existing power
front speaker - existing speaker wire
tweeters - came with free wire - woot
6x9's - 1 run of old 4 core power cable
Sub Amp - Positive line from engine bay I used an old 10 amp power lead and twisted all 3 cores together
Subs - Old 15amp power cord from amp to cabinet -

Brand names are great if your into that stuff but nobody can even see the damn logos on my subs in the boot or the name badge on my hidden amp and if you want to pay out the arse go right ahead.

Keep in mind what sound you want and above all dont just slap in any old crap look at the specs to see what the stuff is capable of - no name gear sometimes out performs the brands by far . . . .and some

Always happy to give free help to any dubbers in brisbane PM me

[Water Boy]

Got some doof today! Be pumping tunes soon.

Ol mate big Steve knows what I got :biggrin: Its fully sick bcuz it Pioneer :eek:

[HOLEIN1]

Hmmm...best value for money? Surely it's gotta be speakers..you can get better sound quality obviously for price of the speakers.



totally agree Mrk Mickey, speakers give a good improvement on sound vs. buck

dont listen to some of the other guys, im sure everyone here appreciates your input, the more conversation around this subforum the better, things have been a little boring/quiet around here as of late... :???:

i consider myself to have a sound knowledge on car audio/installs (i have been mucking around with stuff for years, done short TAFE courses, built custom fibreglass boot installs etc etc) yet i still dumb things down when i do post to help others undersand in laymans terms...

although i have found that it does depend on what sort of speakers you are actually starting off with. for example, the standard speakers in my MK4 were reasonably good when i changed to an aftermarket HU as i was able to drive them with more power and less distortion

this was only a temp solution while i got some otehr stuff installed, however you get the idea...

hypothetically if i had changed to aftermarket speakers with the stocky HU i dont think i would have reached as much of a improvement as the standard unit are absolutley ****ehouse... nameley due to the fact that it lacks any form of decent HP/LP crossover (most HU's have this these days, even the cheapies)

not sure what the OEM gear in the MK3's are, however as always, i recommend a decent HU, some reasonable speakers and if you can stretch it, a small 2 channel amp to run them

i bought a pioneer unit today (for my brothers workhorse) with MP3, ipod control detach face, remote and 2 sets of RCA's brand new from JB HiFi all for a tiny 120 bucks. add a set of speakers for around 200 or so and mabe a small second hand amp off a forum etc and you can have a reasonable system for well under $500. might also add that something like this may be upgraded later down the track with a sub or rear fill speakers easily. again i have seen 'cheap and cheerful' sub and amp combos from autobarn etc for under $200

may seem alot to some, but these days a bloody ipod can cost more...

just some thoughts... keyboard warriors take your marks! haha :nana:

[Fury]

Shameless plug, but check out www.mobileelectronics.com.au

Huge community dedicated to wonderful car audio :)


If your budget is only $500, then i'd look at spending ~$200 on the headunit, and $300 on a decent pair of 2-way 6" splits.
Headunit of your choice - whatever looks pretty and has the features you want.
The 6" splits will sound better then any 4" will. They'll player lower, and give you a more full sound. I would recommend something along the lines of Hertz HSK165's, JL Audio VR600-CSi's, Crescendo Opus 8.6's, Boston SL60's etc...

Cabling should cost very little (speaker wire from headunit to speakers), and installation shouldnt be difficult so you could attempt it yourself.

Run the splits off the headunit, and run the stock rears for the meantime (i'd recommend against rears altogether, if you want justification, let me know and when I have time to write an essay i'll tell you :P).

If you find the sound isn't enough for you, look at purchasing an amplifier down the track.
A small 2ch amp to power your front splits (~2 x 75wrms) would suit fine, and run the rears off the headunit.
Then buy another amp (monoblock) and a subwoofer... and let the addiction bite :)

[Water Boy]

Man who knows how the **** you operate the head unit... I know how to put in a CD and turn up the Volume loud.

BTW I got my Head unit all wired up today :biggrin:

[Fury]

Man who knows how the **** you operate the head unit... I know how to put in a CD and turn up the Volume loud.

BTW I got my Head unit all wired up today :biggrin:

I'll have to take a photo of my headunit + processor + spaceship remote for you then :P

[The_Hawk]

My Mega Low Budget Tightwad System does me just fine:D


Me too! Although mine wasn't as much of a bargain as yours :D

My sub is a 12" which came in a box for $49 and the 4 channel amp was $99 (I was originally going to run two amps using the 2 channel Pioneer amp I already had, but I thought I would try this by itself and it's more than fine.

Moral of the story is that cheaper no name brand stuff may very well serve the average punter as well as gear 10x the price.