R36 vs V6 FSI Highline Engine question

[Jesterarts]

Bit of a technical questions I hope you guys can help me out.

It's already posted in the "newbie" sections, but I suspect I will have more luck here.

Long story short, I'm looking to get myself a new car and at the moment the 2010 R36 Passat Wagon or the 2011 V6 FSI Highline Wagon are both top of the list.

I'm trying to work out which one is best for my needs/wants.

The key thing I am interested in, is what are the differences between the R36 and the Highline under the bonnet?

On paper both look to be identical in configuration, displacement, hardware, power and torque, but the R36 needs 98RON while the Highline 95RON.

I mean, I know a tune would allow for this, but it strikes me as weird to have a different tune that only accomplishes being able to use a lower octane fuel.

Thanks in advance!

[prn31]

The 220 FSI engines are identical in the 2010 R36 Passat Wagon or the 2011 V6 FSI Highline Wagon. The only difference I believe is that the B7 (2011+) has a regenerative system that assists the alternator and along with revised gearbox ratios (5th and 6th gears are taller) makes the B7 slightly more economical. The lower weight makes the B7 marginally faster as well.

As for fuel, 95RON is the minimum for both but you would be mad not to use 98RON where you can.

[booba]

The 220 FSI engines are identical in the 2010 R36 Passat Wagon or the 2011 V6 FSI Highline Wagon. The only difference I believe is that the B7 (2011+) has a regenerative system that assists the alternator and along with revised gearbox ratios (5th and 6th gears are taller) makes the B7 slightly more economical. The lower weight makes the B7 marginally faster as well.

As for fuel, 95RON is the minimum for both but you would be mad not to use 98RON where you can.

can confirm, b7 v6 should have 98 however 95 is ok if you can't find 98.

[00100100]

The 2011 V6 FSI Highline has a lot of updated parts. So potentially more reliable ... potentially!

The even have the same brakes! But I find the R36 to look better. The dulled down the looks in the B7 abit.

[ASR36]

I'm biased here but the highline is not an r36 though.

[Jesterarts]

Thanks for the responses. Agree that the Highline is not a R36. It's it's own beast and I definitely prefer the look of the R36.

Really I was curious about the fuel requirements. All the reading I have been doing, and this thread included, suggests that the engine and box are identical (6th gear ratio aside).

And I was also reading about fuel requirement amendments VW put out for the cars in 2009 suggested the R36 needs 98.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/04/VW_Fuel_Chart_01-1.jpg

Now it's just bugging me what's different given the fuel update seems to all R36's,

[2muchcoffeeman]

Having driven both, the highline (stock) felt like a boring family truckster in comparison to the R36 I owned.

[Jakeys]

As for fuel, 95RON is the minimum for both but you would be mad not to use 98RON where you can.

Incorrect, minimum for R36 is 98, definitely. I own one, there is no question it is min 98, it's all over the car/manuals.

As for why to pick one over the FSI... I am not really sure if the engine is tuned differently but the interior and exterior styling, brakes, wheels, suspension, possibly chassis (???) are all improved on the R36. I saw an earlier comment that the FSI has the same brakes but although I am happy to be proven wrong, I doubt that. The R36 has very beefy brakes, much larger than you would see on a run of the mill family wagon. Surely they must be upgraded either in caliper or rotor size.

All that said though, to be honest each thing on it's own actually doesn't really seem to make a difference but the R36 comes together as a much superior package. Gear ratios are most likely different too, possibly the way the DSG and/or engines are tuned may differ in response. Hard to say really but for me it was never a contest, the R36 was the way to go and I've never for a second regretted it.

I'm speaking all from performance though. If you don't need the extra performance and don't fancy the extra styling, maybe it's the wrong car.

[Jesterarts]

Performance and styling is a bit of a factor for me.
For context, up until two yeahs ago I had a 600hp HSV R8. Then I decided to go completely the other way and ended up with an x-trail.
So the R36 seems like a happy median. Equal parts fun and practicality.
The fuel is a factor, thus my curiosity on the topic.

[Jakeys]

The R36 will outhandle an R8 and also has the better transmission (Not for feel if you're a manual guy but for actual performance), but obviously has nowhere near the straight line performance. As long as you won't miss the raw engine power which coming from the X-Trail I guess you won't, the R36 will definitely be plenty of fun for you, just a different kind of fun as you will like corners more than you did, but straights less.

[Passat my07]

The above fuel ron list is listing a min of 95 only for the 3.2 vr6. If you look at the Passat cc with the 3.6 engine it requires 98 like the r36. The 2011 wagon will have the 3.6 engine.

[kleung]

The 220 FSI engines are identical in the 2010 R36 Passat Wagon or the 2011 V6 FSI Highline Wagon. The only difference I believe is that the B7 (2011+) has a regenerative system that assists the alternator and along with revised gearbox ratios (5th and 6th gears are taller) makes the B7 slightly more economical. The lower weight makes the B7 marginally faster as well.

The revised gearbox ratios for 5th and 6th would explain the 4-5% improvement in combined fuel economy, while not sacrificing 0-100 times.

There's very little variation in weight between the two though:

2010 R36 sedan/wagon: 1679kg/1738kg
2011 V6 Highline sedan (wagon): 1681kg(+2kg)/1747kg(+9kg)


As for fuel, 95RON is the minimum for both but you would be mad not to use 98RON where you can.

The sticker inside the fuel filler on mine has 98 in big numbers with 95 in smaller numbers.


And I was also reading about fuel requirement amendments VW put out for the cars in 2009 suggested the R36 needs 98.

According to the Australian sales brochures, both the 2010 R36 (brochure published Feb 2010) and the 2011 V6 Highline (brochure published 2011) require a minimum of 95RON. No mention of 98RON. Take that as you will.



Incorrect, minimum for R36 is 98, definitely. I own one, there is no question it is min 98, it's all over the car/manuals.

In my owner's manual, it doesn't say anything about the minimum RON - just that you should not use fuel with a lower octane rating than what is required for your specific engine, and to refer to the sticker on the fuel filler door for the minimum octane levels.


As for why to pick one over the FSI... I am not really sure if the engine is tuned differently but the interior and exterior styling, brakes, wheels, suspension, possibly chassis (???) are all improved on the R36. I saw an earlier comment that the FSI has the same brakes but although I am happy to be proven wrong, I doubt that. The R36 has very beefy brakes, much larger than you would see on a run of the mill family wagon. Surely they must be upgraded either in caliper or rotor size.

The calipers are blue. :)

There's no mention of the rotor size in the sales brochures, only that both the R36 and the V6 Highline get ventilated discs front and rear. You'd want the brakes to be beefier though - the nearest equivalent Mazda 6 and Subaru Liberty wagons are at least 150kg or so lighter than the V6 Passats.

[Jesterarts]

The revised gearbox ratios for 5th and 6th would explain the 4-5% improvement in combined fuel economy, while not sacrificing 0-100 times.

There's very little variation in weight between the two though:

2010 R36 sedan/wagon: 1679kg/1738kg
2011 V6 Highline sedan (wagon): 1681kg(+2kg)/1747kg(+9kg)



The sticker inside the fuel filler on mine has 98 in big numbers with 95 in smaller numbers.



According to the Australian sales brochures, both the 2010 R36 (brochure published Feb 2010) and the 2011 V6 Highline (brochure published 2011) require a minimum of 95RON. No mention of 98RON. Take that as you will.




In my owner's manual, it doesn't say anything about the minimum RON - just that you should not use fuel with a lower octane rating than what is required for your specific engine, and to refer to the sticker on the fuel filler door for the minimum octane levels.



The calipers are blue. :)

There's no mention of the rotor size in the sales brochures, only that both the R36 and the V6 Highline get ventilated discs front and rear. You'd want the brakes to be beefier though - the nearest equivalent Mazda 6 and Subaru Liberty wagons are at least 150kg or so lighter than the V6 Passats.

Wow. Very informative response!

Thanks for that.

[Riker]

Apart from the obvious appearance differences the difference between the R36 & V6 Fsi brakes:

* R36: 345-310mm
* V6 Fsi highline: 340-310mm

In essence however they are performance wise virtually identical when all factors are taken into account apart from the blue calipers of the R36 of course.

As mentioned engine/driveline difference is simply the higher top in 5th & 6th gear for the V6 highline allowing for a very slight economy improvement, otherwise they are the same.

[snerlo]

Get the R36. They just have that prescence about them. Plus the seats are unreal!! and the exhaust note, and the brakes, and the steering wheel, and the alcantra........need I go on!! ;-)

[kleung]

Get the R36. They just have that prescence about them. Plus the seats are unreal!! and the exhaust note, and the brakes, and the steering wheel, and the alcantra........need I go on!! ;-)

You forgot the blue brake calipers and the blue instrument needles. It's all about the blue :)

[Jakeys]

You forgot the blue brake calipers and the blue instrument needles. It's all about the blue :)

Don't forget you can order in blue coil pack covers!

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/04/2007VolkswagenPassatR36Engine1024x768-1.jpg

[Jesterarts]

Yeah, I think I'm pretty much sold now. Slowly working on the wife to get less "what do you need another fast car for?" type questions. Though I have a few months to work on this before I'm ready to buy.

And then, the final test.... will I fit being 6 foot 5. :p

I figure I fit into my old 1989 e30 Coupe so I should fit in the passat, right?

[booba]

Yeah, I think I'm pretty much sold now. Slowly working on the wife to get less "what do you need another fast car for?" type questions. Though I have a few months to work on this before I'm ready to buy.

And then, the final test.... will I fit being 6 foot 5. :p

I figure I fit into my old 1989 e30 Coupe so I should fit in the passat, right?

i'm just over 6'4", i have probably 10mm to the roof.

[Jesterarts]

i'm just over 6'4", i have probably 10mm to the roof.

Oh dear. That's not a promising sign...

I'm just over 6'5" at 197cm so that 10mm may evaporate quite quick.

Hmm, may have to find a passer at a dealer to sit in soon and check this out.

[kleung]

Slowly working on the wife to get less "what do you need another fast car for?" type questions.

:icon_what: :cuckoo:

Who said anything about 'need'? :3gears:

"I've got nothing to wear^H^H^H^Hdrive!"

Same reason(s) she needs yet another handbag/dress/item of jewellery.


And then, the final test.... will I fit being 6 foot 5. :p

I figure I fit into my old 1989 e30 Coupe so I should fit in the passat, right?

Probably want to avoid a sunroof-equipped car then.

[revivor]

Oh dear. That's not a promising sign...

I'm just over 6'5" at 197cm so that 10mm may evaporate quite quick.

Hmm, may have to find a passer at a dealer to sit in soon and check this out.

Man, there are a lot of 'tall' R36 owners out there! Me being 194cm! ;)
Well depending on how you adjust your seat, it differs. Setting the seat too high, the rearview mirror blocks your view to your left corner side of your car and also most traffic lights and signs if you're the first at the lights!.

But I've gotten used to that position for the last 5yrs comfortably!

[booba]

Man, there are a lot of 'tall' R36 owners out there! Me being 194cm! ;)
Well depending on how you adjust your seat, it differs. Setting the seat too high, the rearview mirror blocks your view to your left corner side of your car and also most traffic lights and signs if you're the first at the lights!.

But I've gotten used to that position for the last 5yrs comfortably!

I probably should clarify, I am in a B7 Wagon with sunroof. I have seat adjusted to the lowest position and they are electric if that makes a difference. Best to get into similar model stat.