R36 OEM Suspension

[prn31]

Sorry if I'm covering old ground, through a thread search didn't really help me. Here is my question.

Did the R36 without DCC come standard with Bilstein shock absorbers? And were the R36 DCC shock absorbers from Sachs?

I haven't had my R36 wagon long but running standard tyre pressures (39psi!) I find the low speed ride to be very busy and jiggly - and I'm coming from owning a Honda Integra Type R! Sure, it is wearing half-worn Bridgestone RE050a tyres (that I'm not crazy about) but given that I bought this as a "sporty" wagon, I'm wondering what others have done? Is it partly tyres? - I'm sure Michelin or Continentals would be an improvement). I realise that retrofitting DCC is not a (viable) option but wonder whether a set of (rebound) adjustable Koni Sports may be the ultimate answer?

Any suggestions?

[Jakeys]

Sorry if I'm covering old ground, through a thread search didn't really help me. Here is my question.

Did the R36 without DCC come standard with Bilstein shock absorbers? And were the R36 DCC shock absorbers from Sachs?

I haven't had my R36 wagon long but running standard tyre pressures (39psi!) I find the low speed ride to be very busy and jiggly - and I'm coming from owning a Honda Integra Type R! Sure, it is wearing half-worn Bridgestone RE050a tyres (that I'm not crazy about) but given that I bought this as a "sporty" wagon, I'm wondering what others have done? Is it partly tyres? - I'm sure Michelin or Continentals would be an improvement). I realise that retrofitting DCC is not a (viable) option but wonder whether a set of (rebound) adjustable Koni Sports may be the ultimate answer?

Any suggestions?

I have an MY10.5 with the R36 specific factory suspension and my shocks are Sachs. DCC is not R36 specific so the standard R36 specific suspension is a step above performance wise than DCC is in Sport, but will obviously be less comfortable than either DCC option. Keep this in mind.

I run Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2's and the car feels fine at low speed. Not toootally sure what you mean by busy and jiggly but the car feels excellent at any speed. I certainly have no desire to replace my shocks!

[brad]

OP: Are you saying you have Bilstein at the moment? Confirm and then I can make some suggestions.

I have run RE050A on the Skoda for the last 2 sets of tyres. I agree, the sidewall is fairly unforgiving compared to PS3 / PSS or F1A2. Contis have a very soft sidewall (generally they are 2 ply I think) but they tend to damage easier too.

Interestingly, I'm getting a significantly better ride with 225/40r18 on 38psi than I did with 225/50r17 on 40psi. Maybe you can experiment a bit more with pressure.

[prn31]

Thanks Jakey and Brad.

So R36s with DCC will be a little bit softer than a standard R36 even in Sports mode? That's interesting. I would really like to drive a DCC R36 in its different modes and see if I can tell the difference - I did drive one, but the owner told me he never touches the DCC.... I did drive a B7 V6 Highline and the difference between the various modes was noticeable.

Regarding the jiggly ride, I mean low speed compliance. It is very firm, more so than my Integra Type R, which has Bilsteins. As far as I know my R36 is standard - so that means Sachs right?

I think it is probably more a tyre issue. I couldn't believe that standard tyre pressure is 39psi, but when I dropped them I got rude messages from the tyre pressure sensors! I've had Bridgestones or my Integra and I've never been a great fan of them. Interesting what you say about the sidewalls of the Contis. I'm a fan of the Michelin PS3s (currently on my Integra) and I think I will put these on the R36 when the RE050As wear out - which won't be long.

[kamold]

You can reset the TPMS once you have setup your tyres to your desired pressures.
Just push and hold the TPMS button next to the shift lever until you hear the tone, then its been set to your pressures.

[brad]

If you change your tyre pressure then you have to reset the tyre pressure monitoring system back to the new datum. The button is probably in teh glove box. The method is probably in the owners manual or google...

I wouldn't go much below 36 around Sydney. Possibly stick with 38-ish up front & around 35-37 at the rear (unless you carry a lot of stuff).

You might also check the centre-hub to guard distance in case the springs have sagged a bit much.

Koni Sport might help - I run them on the Skoda & the initial compliance is really forgiving. I also run Eibach linear rate springs.

Also, think about going to a 235/40r18 when you do the tyres (or are they already that size?)

[Jakeys]

Thanks Jakey and Brad.

So R36s with DCC will be a little bit softer than a standard R36 even in Sports mode? That's interesting. I would really like to drive a DCC R36 in its different modes and see if I can tell the difference - I did drive one, but the owner told me he never touches the DCC.... I did drive a B7 V6 Highline and the difference between the various modes was noticeable.


Correct. The R36 springs and shocks setup is specific only to our R36's, and are more performance oriented (Firmer, basically) than Volkswagen's DCC. I have not personally driven a DCC car though so I'm not sure to what extent it would be different but the facts are it is, and I've seen a few people comment it's noticeable to some degree. I would guess the DCC part numbers on a Highline B6 Passat and an R36 B6 Passat are probably not even different.


As far as I know my R36 is standard - so that means Sachs right?

Well, if you have an MY10.5 wagon like I do, yeah definitely Sachs is standard. It's a VW part though, but it's made by Sachs. You'll see both brands named on the labels so you could pull a wheel and visually check yourself, or just send your VIN to your dealer and they will tell you. I can't be completely sure it was Sachs across the whole R36 range but I'd assume it is.


Regarding the jiggly ride, I mean low speed compliance. It is very firm, more so than my Integra Type R, which has Bilsteins. ... I think it is probably more a tyre issue. I couldn't believe that standard tyre pressure is 39psi, but when I dropped them I got rude messages from the tyre pressure sensors! I've had Bridgestones or my Integra and I've never been a great fan of them. Interesting what you say about the sidewalls of the Contis. I'm a fan of the Michelin PS3s (currently on my Integra) and I think I will put these on the R36 when the RE050As wear out - which won't be long.

As per kamold's comment holding the TPMS button (It's on the right of the gear lever not in the glove box as previously mentioned) would reset it to the new pressures but honestly I don't think the pressure is the problem. 39psi is correct if you're running the correct 235/40R18 tyres, placard says this and VW also say to follow your placard. Even a pro race driver at the VW track day I did said follow your placard for pressures. :P

It's hard to say without driving your car, I personally don't feel it's jiggly or too firm, and I haven't seen this as a common complaint. I absolutely love how my car feels at any speed, it's the best car I've ever driven, I even prefer it to the Mk. 7 Golf R stock for stock! Everyone is different but you may want to get your car actually checked out, or drive someone else's R36, you may actually have something worn or failed if it's that bad.

[Umai Naa!!]

Keep the tyre pressure in the high 30s, otherwise the tyres won't last 15,000kms.

They do tend to crash over small bumps and joins in road surface, but they really come into their own out of the city, on the highways and in the twisties. Small price to pay, if you ask me.

[Jakeys]

While we're on the subject, watch the inside of your rear tyres too. These cars come cambered a lot stock and mine chews the rear inners long before anywhere else. I ended up getting it adjusted, hasn't negatively impacted the handling and I should see better wear now.

[prn31]

Right, I hear you regarding the DCC - it seems strange that it wouldn't be calibrated to the R36 tune, but it is a bit academic as a retrofit would never be financially viable. A set of Konis down the track would make sense, but I don't think there is an issue with the Sachs in my car (it is a MY10.5.)

I think it comes down to three things:

1. Tyre pressures - thought I'm not sure that a couple of psi would make much of a difference.

2. The Bridgestone RE050a tyres - I don't like them. I'll replace those when they're worn with a set of Michelin PS3s and I'm sure it will make a positive difference.

3. Rattles inside the car. This is driving me bananas and the main culprit seems to be the plastic cover for the amplifier under the passenger seat. I found this was completely off and after close inspection a couple of tabs are broken. I've refitted it but it still seems to be rattling at the front, so I've ordered a new one...

I'm still getting used to my R36 - the roads around home are quite bumpy and I haven't really had a chance to stretch the R36's legs. Having said that my wife is certainly impressed. We have an old Ford Fairmont wagon (with modified suspension) that doesn't handle badly for an old bus but after driving the Passat she complained how loose the Fairmont felt.

I bought the R36 rather than a B7 V6 Highline because it felt special - to look at and to sit in. The R36 is a much rawer driving experience but I've driven hard riding sports cars all my life - I just have to get used to a hard riding sports estate!

[Passat R36]

When I got my PS3 from Spinning wheel tyres in March, I got the alignment done, the rear camber was fixed.

I am very happy with PS3, feel like a different car.

The rim protection lip is narrower than the original Contis though.

[outsider]

Adding more praise for the Mich PS3s - they match this car like a hand in a glove. I went from the Contis to them and found: the mushy front end was gone, steering precision and feedback enhanced, and the real killer - road noise almost disappeared. You can work the front much harder at low to medium speeds, and the car rolls over irregular pavement much better.

I had the 050As on a Subaru Spec B and found them stiff with little feel, they added to the vagueness, that queasy feeling that stops you pushing along. The PS3s are also a total bargain in the r36 size. Oh, and 40psi front, 38-39 rear, and 2-3psi make a difference. The car tells you when it reaches around 36psi it appears.

[Jakeys]

When I got my PS3 from Spinning wheel tyres in March, I got the alignment done, the rear camber was fixed.

I am very happy with PS3, feel like a different car.

The rim protection lip is narrower than the original Contis though.

I thought they had like some Dunlop Sports stock, not Contis?

Since we're recommending tyres I may have mentioned it but I highly recommend the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2's. In a higher category than the PS3's they are more comparable to the step up Michelin Pilot Super Sports, not quite as good according to reviews but much cheaper. Also the Eagle F1 Asym 2's are a pretty sexy looking tyre and they have a huge rim protector which is both useful and gives the tyre a bit of a stretch look which I'm a fan of. Good road noise, amazing in the wet, can't comment on wear too much, I've put about 10,000kms on them and they're still going strong, that's about all I could comment on tread wear.

[Passat R36]

I thought they had like some Dunlop Sports stock, not Contis?

MY08 had Dunlop to start and VW moved on to Contis later. My MY10 had the original Contis SC3 ContiSeal.

[prn31]

I thought I should revive this thread – given that I started this one in the first place… and it is about the R36 suspension. Given the age of our R36s this will be something that a lot of owners will be looking at soon, I feel.

I guess I’ve never been that happy with the shock absorber(damper) tune of the R36, especially the low speed ride. I’ve put up with it but in the last 5,000 Km the original Sachs shock absorbers deteriorated dramatically to the extent that there was no control with the shock rebound plus I had a multitude of rattles.

I spent a fair bit of time researching what was available and in discussion with a local mechanic with knowledge of suspension set-ups (he is an ex-racer) we went for the Bilstein B8 Sports. Initially I was lookingat the B6 Sports but given that the R36 already had factory lowered suspension (by 30mm) I figured that the shorter B8s were the right way to go.

This was an expensive exercise and I sourced the Bilsteins from the States, which was fine except they sent B6 Sport rears because they didn’t have B8s in stock, so I had to source these locally at twice the cost… I also replaced the top shock mounts front and rear as a matter of course.

We found that the original Sachs were totally rooted at 130,000km – when you compressed them they didn’t return at all. As you can see in the attached photo, the shaft of the Bilsteins is a lot thicker than the Sachs, which is reassuring. (I think we had to enlarge the plastic strut cover to fit.)

How do they feel? Certainly a lot more controlled than what I had as you would expect. They are firm but I don’t believe they are a much firmer than standard – it certainly isn’t uncomfortable and there is no harshness. Most of the rattles are gone too so I am well pleased. It was certainly money well spent.

[kamold]

Tell em the price son!
Was thinking maybe KW v1s

[prn31]

Tell em the price son!
Was thinking maybe KW v1s

Fitted the cost was just over $2,600. I would have saved $300 if I had sourced the rear shocks from the States - they were double the price at $650. I didn't want to go the coilover route - I don't intend to lower it or need adjustable shocks. It's not a track car, it's a family hack. But I want the best shocks I can afford and the experts I spoke to rated the Bilsteins over the Konis. I'm happy. :)

[Passat R36]

What are the kit number or parts numbers please? That will be handy for future reference. Thanks in advance.

[prn31]

What are the kit number or parts numbers please? That will be handy for future reference. Thanks in advance.

The Bilstein B8 part numbers are front 35-122081 and rear 24-178006. Front strut mounts are 1KO-412-331-B and rear strut mounts are 3CO-53-353-C. I think these were sourced locally (not OEM) from Imparts.

[brad]

for anyone interested, the front B8s are <$700 posted on ebay.
The rears are ~$550 posted
Their are some good sellers in the UK and Germany.

Don't forget that they will probably charge 10% GST.

It might be worth looking at the Black friday specials. I got my Koni Sports for a crazy cheap price (basically got the rears free) in the sales a few years back.

[louiz]

The Bilstein B8 part numbers are front 35-122081 and rear 24-178006. Front strut mounts are 1KO-412-331-B and rear strut mounts are 3CO-53-353-C. I think these were sourced locally (not OEM) from Imparts.

Anyone knows the Sachs rear shocks part no. that fits R36 wagons?

[prn31]

I think the Sachs are OEM, so they would have a VW part number 3CO 513 049 - BS. But I think you could buy Sachs direct from parts suppliers like Pelican in the US.

I didn't want to go with OEM/Sachs because they won't last like Bilsteins. Sure they cost more, but you get what you pay for.

Nine months on I'm very happy with the Bilstein B8s - they suit the car. Firm but not hard.