R36 lowered springs

[eurobahn5]

Hi, I am looking to buy some heavy duty springs (not coilovers) for my R36 sedan 2008, Bilstein B8 sprint shocks just fitted and feeling good but I'd like it sitting a bit lower...say 20-30mm, can anyone recommend a solution ?
Also I have booked a track day at eastern creek (sydney motorsport park) 23rd Sep 2005 in the PM. It would be great to see some other R36's or other VW/AUDI's out there ! come on !:banana:

[3C4M Guy]

I've done A LOT of research into this and can offer you a lot of fact and opinion. I've chosen Koni shocks. Your Bilstein shocks are firmer than Koni and deserve to be complimented with some firmer springs. The problem is: many springs manufacturers are designing and marketing springs to achieve a certain 'look' rather than performance. There are customers out there who are primarily concerning with their car looking dramatically lowered despite any negative consequences for handling, suspension bottoming out and hitting the front spoiler on kerbs. Only you can answer if this description fits you. If your primary criteria is performance for track days, then maybe you don't care if the spoiler scrapes on the raised concrete bar in car parks.

My advice is to select a set of springs that offer better performance and as a result are firmer and slightly lower by 20-30mm, not 40mm.
Eibach springs seem to fit this criteria. Eibach quote 30mm lower over standard (not R36), but this is typically 20mm when measured. Einbach say that a typical measurement after fitting their springs is 355mm from the centre of the hub to the top of the guard. My car has standard suspension which measures 375mm front & 383mm rear. However an R36 that I measured had 345mm front and 355mm rear. So Einbach may offer you no lowering over standard R36 height.

In my opinion, I would not recommend H&R springs that are 40mm lower over standard suspension with an undetermined handling change. Have a look at an H&R ad in a magazine showing an outrageously lowered car and you can get an idea of their target market. However H&R might suit the amount of lowering you want to achieve. Koni springs are actually H&R. Other options are: ST Suspensions from USA (owned by KW) that are 30mm lower and progressive, or Neuspeed from USA that are 40mm lower.

Good luck!

[3C4M Guy]

P.S. I might be wrong about H&R. I'd love to hear from someone who's got them and loves them.

[eurobahn5]

Hi, thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. I have looked at the ST/KW springs, they state a lowering of 20mm all round which would be good, but is it off the already lowered R36 or just std Passat...who knows? They state they are cold rolled which is good, but are they heavy duty/stiffer or just like OEM. The price is also not bad. I have heard Eibach wont change height and H&R would be too low. I am after performance as I have also changed a lot of the other suspension components and other aspects of the car. The Bilstein B8 Sprints I just put in have managed to keep the height the same with the std springs. I also fitted front adjustable strut tops (K-MAC) for some negative camber, which seems to have worked but I can't put on the most agressive setting as the OEM springs were chattering, the mechanic said with lowered springs it might fix the problem.

[3C4M Guy]

Hi, I would be interested to hear more about your other suspension changes. I'm very keen to make my Passat handle quite a bit better than it does. I also was considering K-MAC strut tops to achieve more negative camber and also more caster for better turn in. The standard front camber spec seems to be -30' for standard ride height and -41' for sports (R36). Presumably you've been able to achieve more than this?
I was very surprised to read that the standard front caster spec is 7 degrees 32' for standard ride height and 7 degrees 44' for sports (R36). It certainly doesn't feel that much. The way the car drives, it feels like 1 or 2 degrees. When I saw the standard caster spec, I postponed my plans for adjustable top mounts. Have you gained caster?

I've also researched sway bars. Having expressed concern for H&R springs, I concluded H&R sway bars would be best. Most other manufacturers such as ST keep a larger diameter bar at the front and smaller at the rear eg. 26mm front with 22mm rear. However H&R have gone for a 24mm front and 26mm rear. Having a larger rear bar should help dial out some understeer. That's got to be a good thing.

A Haldex controller that puts more drive to the rear wheels should make the car behave better, but what the car really needs in my opinion is a quicker steering rack. I know I'm exaggerating but it feels like the steering needs armfuls of lock just to change lanes on a freeway! It's so indirect. I've sometimes wondered whether the steering rack from an Audi B7 RS4 would fit. Even if it did fir, the steering control module would probably refuse to communicate with the CAN system. Would love to hear from anyone who's changed the steering rack. And as I said, I would be interested to hear more about your other suspension changes.

[eurobahn5]

Hi, with regards to the negative camber from the K-MAC hats, I'm not sure what the actual degree is now but when you look at the front wheels you can definitely tell the difference from std. The castor has also been sharpened by Whiteline anti-lift castor bushes along with Whiteline frt sway bar 24mm and rear 24mm, also have the alloy links all round. The electric steering seems OK to me, although when doing a u turn now, I can hear a slight electronic buzzy sort of noise, maybe it doesn't like all the mods and different angles now ! I have completed other mods as well, I just can't help myself, such as cold air induction, light weight OZ racing wheels, Golf V1 space saver, brake up grade, nitto tyres, DSG tune, lower torque rod bush insert, rear under body diffuser, hi flow resonator etc etc....I would like the Haldex mod as a I track the car but pretty pricey. Do you have a R36 or other Passat ? Cheers Adam

[3C4M Guy]

It sounds like you're on the right path with everything you've done. I hope that overall you've had some significant gains. Did you do every upgrade one at a time to assess the benefit of each? I also investigated Whiteline anti-lift caster bushes, urethane bushes, brake upgrade, bigger wheels and lower profile tyres etc. My problem is - I could pour many, many thousands of dollars into all the things we've talked about, but after all that I've still only got the 3.2L VR6 4Motion. Not the 3.6L which I couldn't afford. At least you've started with the best engine. Although I have to say that the 3.6L vs. the 3.2L only has more kW and almost no more Nm.

[XXX-1.8T]

I have KW springs as they were not as low as the H&R's.

I love them!