"Running In oil" and normal oil.

[gldgti]

there are really only 2 types of oil in the world -

oils with friction modifiers.

oils without friction modifiers.

some car manufacturers specify a specific oil to use - it may have friction modifiers, suited to the engine components that they used - e.g. specific alloy combinations etc.

basically, there is only a couple of rules that you need to go by to get the best out of your car.

running in oil, is oil without friction modifiers. this may be sold specifically, from a dealer, otherwise it is - all penrite oils, all pennzoil oils, and a couple of other select brands.

generally all other oils have modifiers.

if you use an oil without friction modifiers, with a vehicle like a VW, merc, bmw, volvo, etc - european baes manufacturers, you will have a long and happy motoring life with your engine.

oils with modifiers will only make a difference to the service interval you should use, and only if the modifiers are suited to the engine components.

all of this is NOT to say that all engine oils are created equal - they are clearly NOT.

the main thing to take from this is:

1. change your oil more regularly than necessary
2. use a good quality oil
3. don't change oil brands too often - try to stick to one that works well.
4. DO IT YOURSELF so you know what goes in and what comes out!

[jets]

Does this apply to TDI engines with unit injectors & extreme pressure on the cams?

[Transporter]

Be very careful what oil you use in VW unit injector TDi.
Only VW approved oils otherwise you ruin your valve train components.
Watch out oils made to VW specs or similar statement don’t have to be VW approved. :)

[gldgti]

Does this apply to TDI engines with unit injectors & extreme pressure on the cams?

not necessarily - like i said - a specific oil with specific modifiers may be used for a specific application, so i wouldnt go changing from something specified in the manual.

- to further qualify -

this stuff applies to older diesels, and i'm not gonna say it applies to anything PD (unit injectors) because I dont know what the mechanical operation of these systems is like.

[95vr6]

The only oil to use in VW Pump Duse diesels is Castrol SLX longlife 2 VW506 spec

[Oneofthegreats]

This subject has come up a few times & I've expressed my opinion's on this several times.

I reckon that this subject is all dependant on what type of engine.

I've built several hotty engine's & the only running-in oil I use & recommend is lawn mower oil. Straight 30W! Believe or not but this is what alot of top engine builder's use here in OZ & the States.

You only run it for about 500km's, then dump it. The reason is that it dosen't break down & maintain's consistancy through out the heat range.

More on the subject is I don't really believe in running-in procedure's of new engine's, rather lean on them from the get go.

After all, the only thing you running-in is the cam (if it's new aftermarket) & the piston ring's.
The harder you lean on it, the greater the cyl. pressure which aid's in & along with piston ring spring tension bedding in the ring's into the cyl. bore thus sealing much faster.
If you take it easy, the sealing process take's alot longer & isn't as effective & can sometimes glaze the bore surface.

You also have to make sure that your mixture's & tune is spot on. If it's too rich you can glaze the bore, basically smoothing out the hone surface not allowing the ring to seal properly. If this does happen, the only way to rectify it, is to rehone the bore's.

[gregozedobe]

The only oil to use in VW Pump Duse diesels is Castrol SLX longlife 2 VW506 spec

Not from what I've read. VW seem to have made things very confusing for us TDI owners.

If you have a TDI with a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter), then you should use a VW 507.00 oil (look in your owner's manual). You can use 507.00 in all recent VW TDIs EXCEPT for the 5cyl and V10 TDIs (Transporters and Touregs) without DPF, which MUST use 506.01 (it has some additive which protects cams/followers). The later 5cyl motors have different (better ?) treatment to the cams/followers, so they are OK for 507.00

TDIs with a DPF need a low SAPS oil to prevent fouling of the DPF. 507.00 is low SAPS, 506.01 is not.

Bottom line, only use the oil listed in your owner's manual.

Hope that clears things up a bit (based on info from a VW UK tech person on the Brickworks T5 group)

[Preen59]

This subject has come up a few times & I've expressed my opinion's on this several times.

I reckon that this subject is all dependant on what type of engine.

I've built several hotty engine's & the only running-in oil I use & recommend is lawn mower oil. Straight 30W! Believe or not but this is what alot of top engine builder's use here in OZ & the States.

You only run it for about 500km's, then dump it. The reason is that it dosen't break down & maintain's consistancy through out the heat range.

More on the subject is I don't really believe in running-in procedure's of new engine's, rather lean on them from the get go.

After all, the only thing you running-in is the cam (if it's new aftermarket) & the piston ring's.
The harder you lean on it, the greater the cyl. pressure which aid's in & along with piston ring spring tension bedding in the ring's into the cyl. bore thus sealing much faster.
If you take it easy, the sealing process take's alot longer & isn't as effective & can sometimes glaze the bore surface.

You also have to make sure that your mixture's & tune is spot on. If it's too rich you can glaze the bore, basically smoothing out the hone surface not allowing the ring to seal properly. If this does happen, the only way to rectify it, is to rehone the bore's.


Very true. Also, if you don't put a decent load on the rings, when you get blow-by, that can cause excessive heat on the ring, causing them to lose tension, and once that happens there's no second chances.

The reason non-friction modified oils allow the rings to bed faster, is because they allow the bore to 'cut' the ring much easier and not skid over the top.

Some cams don't have to be run in because of the hardening process, although it doesn't hurt to bump it up to 1500-2000rpm for 5-10 mins when you first fire it up to be safe. Nothing worse than building a nice new thumper and the lobes chipping short ofter you start using it...

[Spoddy]

Not from what I've read. VW seem to have made things very confusing for us TDI owners.

If you have a TDI with a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter), then you should use a VW 507.00 oil (look in your owner's manual). You can use 507.00 in all recent VW TDIs EXCEPT for the 5cyl and V10 TDIs (Transporters and Touregs) without DPF, which MUST use 506.01 (it has some additive which protects cams/followers). The later 5cyl motors have different (better ?) treatment to the cams/followers, so they are OK for 507.00

TDIs with a DPF need a low SAPS oil to prevent fouling of the DPF. 507.00 is low SAPS, 506.01 is not.

Bottom line, only use the oil listed in your owner's manual.

Hope that clears things up a bit (based on info from a VW UK tech person on the Brickworks T5 group)

Have a look at my post at he bottom of page 6 here:
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=6351&page=6

Is it just me that is confused or are we all :confused:

[gregozedobe]

Have a look at my post at he bottom of page 6 here:
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=6351&page=6

Is it just me that is confused or are we all :confused:

Hello Spoddy, I'm not feeling at all confused, but I don't blame you for feeling like your head is spinning.

I'll give you my simple advice:

If you have a Golf TDI Use VW 507.00 oil (it is a better oil than 505.01)

It doesn't matter whether it has a DPF or not, long life servicing or fixed interval servicing, you change the oil or the dealer or an independent VW specialist does it for you.

[Spoddy]

Hello Spoddy, I'm not feeling at all confused, but I don't blame you for feeling like your head is spinning.

I'll give you my simple advice:

If you have a Golf TDI Use VW 507.00 oil (it is a better oil than 505.01)

It doesn't matter whether it has a DPF or not, long life servicing or fixed interval servicing, you change the oil or the dealer or an independent VW specialist does it for you.

I contacted the dealer and they advised me that there are two 505.01 oils, one is in a silver container and the upgraded 505.01 in a gold container which is supposedly better than the 507.00.

I have lodged a question with VAG and am now waiting on their official advice.

Stay tuned :???:

[gregozedobe]

..... and the upgraded 505.01 in a gold container which is supposedly better than the 507.00.

I have lodged a question with VAG and am now waiting on their official advice.

Stay tuned :???:

WTF !!!! 507.00 has only been around for just over 12 months and was supposed to rationalise, replace and improve on all the previous VW TDI specialist oils. Now MY head is spinning :confused:

This is a new one on me, I will await your report with interest :)

I've done a bit of investigating on the Castrol site, there are two different Castrol 505.01 oils available, I'm betting your dealer is talking about the two listed below:

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/5237_SLX_Professional_OE_5W-30_119562_2007_10.pdf
http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/5031_SLX_Professional_VW_505_01_119387_2006_09.pdf

From reading the tech specs either of the above would be OK in your Golf as but 507.00 is better than either:

http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/5032_SLX_Professional_LLIII_Powerflow_119390_2007_ 03.pdf

[Transporter]

I contacted the dealer and they advised me that there are two 505.01 oils, one is in a silver container and the upgraded 505.01 in a gold container which is supposedly better than the 507.00.

I have lodged a question with VAG and am now waiting on their official advice.

Stay tuned :???:

They might be right about that 505.01 oil is better than 507.00 oil.
This could explain it.
VW 505.01 oil can be used in Transport R5 engine without LongLife service and VW 507.00 cannot be used at all. VW 506.01 is used in Transporter R5 engine for LongLife servicing which is 2 years 0r 50,000km. If 505.01 oil can be used in R5 for 15,000km without damaging the camshafts it must be better than 507.00 oil.
507.00 oil was brought up for engines with DPF - possibly sacrificing engine's life in favor of the environment.
I will use VW 506.01 oil (which is listed in owners manual) in my GolfV.

[gregozedobe]

VW 505.01 oil can be used in Transport R5 engine without LongLife service and VW 507.00 cannot be used at all. VW 506.01 is used in Transporter R5 engine for LongLife servicing which is 2 years 0r 50,000km. If 505.01 oil can be used in R5 for 15,000km without damaging the camshafts it must be better than 507.00 oil.
I'd be very interested in your source/s for the above statements. Everything I've read so far, including my R5's owners manual (2.5l 5 cyl 128Kw) and Castrol's Product data say the same thing:

VW R5 TDIs without DPF MUST use 506.01, while VW R5 TDIs with DPF MUST use 507.00.

My owner's manual states (from section 3.3 Technical data, Caravelle, Transporter):

"128Kw TDI diesel engine without diesel particulate filter, with long-life service (PR no.: QG1) High-lubricity multigrade oil Specification VW 506 01" and "without long-life service (PR no.: QG0 or QG2) High-lubricity multigrade oil Specification VW 506 01".

"128Kw TDI diesel engine with diesel particulate filter, with long-life service (PR no.: QG1) High-lubricity multigrade oil Specification VW507 00" and "without long-life service (PR no.: QG0 or QG2) High-lubricity multigrade oil Specification VW507 00".

The only transporter motors approved for 505.01 oil in my version of the owners manual were the non-DPF 4 cyl TDIs without long life servicing.

The castrol Product info for their "Castrol SLX Professional VW 505 01" oil specifically states:
"Transporter diesels (note 2.5L requires 506.01, Castrol SLX VW Longlife II)."

The cams/followers in the R5 DPF engine are supposedly more wear resistant, which allows them to use 507.00. This implies 506.01 has better lubrication qualities (for cams and followers at least) than 507.00, but given VW's confusing approach to oils I would be reluctant to use an oil that isn't specifically approved for the particular engine I was putting it in.

[Transporter]

I'd be very interested in your source/s for the above statements. Everything I've read so far, including my R5's owners manual (2.5l 5 cyl 128Kw) and Castrol's Product data say the same thing:

VW R5 TDIs without DPF MUST use 506.01, while VW R5 TDIs with DPF MUST use 507.00.

My owner's manual states (from section 3.3 Technical data, Caravelle, Transporter):

"128Kw TDI diesel engine without diesel particulate filter, with long-life service (PR no.: QG1) High-lubricity multigrade oil Specification VW 506 01" and "without long-life service (PR no.: QG0 or QG2) High-lubricity multigrade oil Specification VW 506 01".

"128Kw TDI diesel engine with diesel particulate filter, with long-life service (PR no.: QG1) High-lubricity multigrade oil Specification VW507 00" and "without long-life service (PR no.: QG0 or QG2) High-lubricity multigrade oil Specification VW507 00".

The only transporter motors approved for 505.01 oil in my version of the owners manual were the non-DPF 4 cyl TDIs without long life servicing.

The castrol Product info for their "Castrol SLX Professional VW 505 01" oil specifically states:
"Transporter diesels (note 2.5L requires 506.01, Castrol SLX VW Longlife II)."

The cams/followers in the R5 DPF engine are supposedly more wear resistant, which allows them to use 507.00. This implies 506.01 has better lubrication qualities (for cams and followers at least) than 507.00, but given VW's confusing approach to oils I would be reluctant to use an oil that isn't specifically approved for the particular engine I was putting it in.

I agree with you on 507.00 as safe choice of taking out the confusion which oil to use in GolfV.
And yes R5 without DPF can use VW505.01
Here is page from my manual.
1422

Current VW 506.01 is made in Italy and 507.00 is made in Australia by Castrol.
I prefer oil made in Italy before local blend.:)
What ever oil you use: 505.01, 507.00 or 506.01 in Golf TDi without DPF, if you change oil regularly the engine should last you long time, if you use the car for the purpose it was made (no stupid modifications - especially increasing power output from engine):)

[gregozedobe]

And yes R5 without DPF can use VW505.01 Here is page from my manual.
That's interesting, so we now need to know which year our R5 motor is before deciding what oil to put in :confused: In my owner's manual (which came with a MY2007 transporter) it definitely stated that only VW 506.01 is suitable for an R5 without DPF, regardless of servicing regime.

This is very confusing, even for people like you and me who try to figure out what is right for our vehicles. The average owner (and some dealer staff) has no hope of getting it right every time ! :(

[Transporter]

That's interesting, so we now need to know which year our R5 motor is before deciding what oil to put in :confused: In my owner's manual (which came with a MY2007 transporter) it definitely stated that only VW 506.01 is suitable for an R5 without DPF, regardless of servicing regime.

This is very confusing, even for people like you and me who try to figure out what is right for our vehicles. The average owner (and some dealer staff) has no hope of getting it right every time ! :(

Confusing, it is.
When I came to dealer for my first oil for the engine they tried to sell me Mobil 10W-40 and convinced me that this was the right oil for my engine, I had to call on service manager to get right oil.
Haven’t said that, one should always use highest (best oil) specification oil.
Prematurely worn out cam followers messages are around for almost the same time as TDI PD engines. In my opinion mostly caused by driving hard when the engine is cold, not using correct oils and possibly oil top ups with incorrect oil – especially combined with LongLife service regime.
When DPF trap is fitted you have only one option VW507.00, so possibly arguments which oil to use will be less in the future when every diesel will have DPF fitted, also Common Rail system should be less demanding on oil.

Mate on your new T5 watch out for oil leak from rear crankshaft seal - mine was done 6 months ago and it is booked in again for the same job in January (done only 47,000km).:?

Cheers.
MRL T5

[95vr6]

Has any priced up some 507.00 spec oil from vw dealers?

[Transporter]

Has any priced up some 507.00 spec oil from vw dealers?

$ 66.00 trade.

[95vr6]

Any one using castrol edge 5w-30 oil

[Spoddy]

Any one using castrol edge 5w-30 oil

Be careful, you will get MRL T5 on you tail.... :) :D ;)
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=6351&highlight=castrol+edge&page=5

[gregozedobe]

Confusing, it is.
Would you like me to add to the general confusion ? Read the post by Happy Yellow in the following thread:
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22006&PN=1
I think I'm about ready to start ignoring all oil posts, as my head hurts too much thinking about all the confusing and conflicting info put out by VW alone :confused: I'll just remember to put only 507.00 in my T5, at least until VW supercede it with whatever is the latest and greatest lubricant.


Mate on your new T5 watch out for oil leak from rear crankshaft seal - mine was done 6 months ago and it is booked in again for the same job in January (done only 47,000km).:?
Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't heard of this being a common problem on R5s so far. What are the early warning symptoms ? To have it done twice in quick succession sounds like either a botched repair job or a manufacturing defect (possibly an imperfection in either the rotating surface of the crankshaft where it touches the seal or the crankcase). Please keep us informed on how it turns out.

So far I've only had minor warranty problems with my 128Kw (with DPF) manual Transporter, a couple of faulty locking actuators (tailgate and sliding door), and I'm currently waiting on an EGR O-ring to fix a minor leak in the plumbing. But I'm very pleased with it - the T5 is a great highway cruiser and a good small camper.

[Transporter]

[QUOTE=gregozedobe;109290]
Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't heard of this being a common problem on R5s so far. What are the early warning symptoms ? To have it done twice in quick succession sounds like either a botched repair job or a manufacturing defect (possibly an imperfection in either the rotating surface of the crankshaft where it touches the seal or the crankcase). Please keep us informed on how it turns out.


Oil leak from the crankshaft seal probably become acceptable for many mechanics and they just ignore it, until it starts dripping on the road. Since there is plastic tray with noise insulating pad it could take some time before you notice any drips on the road.

Warning sign is you will see black engine oil where the engine is joined to the transmission. And it is up to the dealer to tell you that it is leaking if they notice it when they change engine oil - or they wait until it is out of warranty and then tell you about it.:?

[95vr6]

Be careful, you will get MRL T5 on you tail.... :) :D ;)
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=6351&highlight=castrol+edge&page=5

Sorry , found out it is UK spec Castrol Edge oil that is 507.00 not here in Aus.

[Brewtus]

I bought some Penzoil thats said it complied to VW507 for $55 for 5l to top up my 07 103kw Passat wagon. It was 0w-30.