R36 Engine start problem

[R36R]

Hey guys. I've been having a bit of a problem with my car now for the last few months. When i start the car in the mornings it starts without fault, but then after i park it at work after sitting in the sun all day or when the weather is just hot in general it decides it wants to take forever to start. It ticks over but takes a while to kick over and i have to pump the accelerator a bit.

I thought it was a battery problem and had it replaced but it's still doing it. People are saying it's a fuel pump problem but you can hear it turn over when you open the door. I had the spark plugs replaced and still nothing.

Now I'm thinking that the ignition coils have shat themselves.
I bought the car with 105,000km on the clock and I'm not sure if it had the coils replaced.
I have VCDS and no errors are popping up regarding them or anything else for that matter.

I called VW and they are wanting $110 per coil and i don't really want to pay that much.
Do any you guys know if these are compatible from ECS Tuning or i need different ones.

403 Forbidden (http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Passat_B6-4_Motion-3.6L/Engine/Ignition/ES269744/)

Here is a video of what it is doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0FvhKFHdA8&list=UUL2OTzTU0kAlbQvOw3rGgdQ

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards

Chris

[h100vw]

Hey guys. I've been having a bit of a problem with my car now for the last few months. When i start the car in the mornings it starts without fault, but then after i park it at work after sitting in the sun all day or when the weather is just hot in general it decides it wants to take forever to start. It ticks over but takes a while to kick over and i have to pump the accelerator a bit.

I thought it was a battery problem and had it replaced but it's still doing it. People are saying it's a fuel pump problem but you can hear it turn over when you open the door. I had the spark plugs replaced and still nothing.

Now I'm thinking that the ignition coils have shat themselves.
I bought the car with 105,000km on the clock and I'm not sure if it had the coils replaced.
I have VCDS and no errors are popping up regarding them or anything else for that matter.

I called VW and they are wanting $110 per coil and i don't really want to pay that much.
Do any you guys know if these are compatible from ECS Tuning or i need different ones.

403 Forbidden (http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Pas) ... /ES269744/

I'm going to try and post a video when i get a chance to show you guys what it sounds like.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards

Chris

If it runs ok, I don't see coilpacks fixing it.

Throttlebody alignment might help, although the fault was there the battery was swapped.

A fuel pressure problem as opposed to just the fuel pump not working. New filter?

gavin

[vdubmotorworx]

Possible ecu update? Might need vw to check there tech bullitins to see if your concern comes up for a software update of engine ecu....so much stuff gets fixed that way these days...sight adjustment of min / max sensor specs

[kamold]

Possible ecu update? Might need vw to check there tech bullitins to see if your concern comes up for a software update of engine ecu....so much stuff gets fixed that way these days...sight adjustment of min / max sensor specs

I don't know the details of the TSB, but my car has a recall sticker on it for an ECU update that was done back in 2009....

[Umai Naa!!]

What's the campaign number on it?

I don't recall any ECU updates for them, but just about every one of them had the positive battery cable replaced as part of a campaign.

OP: perform an intake clean on it, including the throttle body. I'd recommend the Liqui-Moly intake cleaner to do the bulk of it. You'll need an extra person to do it, as one of you will need to hold the engine at around 3,000rpm, while the other sprays the intake cleaner into the intake AFTER the MAF. With the throttle body, use any old carby/throttle body cleaner and an old toothbrush. Use a plastic trim wedge or similar, to manually open the throttle body. FSI motors are notoriously suceptive to carbon build-up, causing all sorts of running problems.

Also bare in mind, that these motors cut power to coils if missfires are detected on that cylinder. If you read the codes, then clear the codes (even if none are logged), the idle will pick up a couple of hundred RPM, and run a bit smoother. Worth checking the missfire counter in Measured Values beforehand, and see what the go is. Best done with it running, and under load (like stalled up against the brakes in D).

[kamold]

Recall campaign 24K6.

'To cure a random fault with throttle position sender reading an implausible signal for no reason and throwing an ECU fualt code. ....Cold start issues....rough running in certain load levels.....'
etc translated from Dutch...

Maybe related?

[Umai Naa!!]

Hmm... that could well apply.

A call to the local dealer with the VIN on Monday will get to the bottom of it.

Definitely don't shy away from the battery cable one though, if it's not been done. The initial version of the cable can rub through on the rear subframe and bodywork.

[R36R]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. Will definitely look into it all.

Ive added a video int he first post of what the car is doing on start up if that gives you all a better idea.

[rraudi]

Been a few years but did you find a solution?

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[seanmau5]

Been another few months and my 3.6 CC is doing exactly this. Solution?

[dieterbohlen]

Let me join in on the problem.
I have TSI118 in B7 (2014 model) and it does exactly the same thing in exactly the same conditions (after sitting the sun).
Replaced battery and two days later the issue came up again.
Can anyone suggest something before I take it to the dealer: how expensive is this fix going to be?
Thanks

[seanmau5]

Mine has thrown a p000a code which is camshaft position slow response on bank 1. I’m picking up a new camshaft position sensor tomorrow and going to replace that to see if the issue is corrected. I’ve contacted the OP but no reply, I suspect he is no longer active.

EDIT: mine does it after sitting in the sun also, so hot days the car just doesn’t want to start. It’s definitely heat that affects whatever is going on. The camshaft position sensor part number is 030907601E - I’m not sure if that part fits the TSI engine your Passat has but it could be a starting point if you wish to get your hands on the equivalent for your car.

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[dieterbohlen]

Mine has thrown a p000a code which is camshaft position slow response on bank 1. I’m picking up a new camshaft position sensor tomorrow and going to replace that to see if the issue is corrected. I’ve contacted the OP but no reply, I suspect he is no longer active.

EDIT: mine does it after sitting in the sun also, so hot days the car just doesn’t want to start. It’s definitely heat that affects whatever is going on. The camshaft position sensor part number is 030907601E - I’m not sure if that part fits the TSI engine your Passat has but it could be a starting point if you wish to get your hands on the equivalent for your car.

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It all started couple of month ago, when during the start it was turning over. It was happening probably once every two weeks or so. And one day it just died, all clock reset to zero, and upon inserting the key monitors went off. Called RAC to help, they measured battery and said that it needs to be replaced. So I did so with new battery, but only lasted two days until it started turning over again last night during start up.

[seanmau5]

Yea I originally suspected a bad battery also as it was the original so I replaced the battery.. $450 later and no good. Then it was diagnosed that the high pressure fuel pump switch was faulty so I had that replaced. $250 later and no good. Timing chain. $2500 later and no good. This cranking issue has actually ruined the battery that I had installed.

I am so fed up with this car.. Roof liner needs to be replaced - $450. AC takes forever to blow cold - $250 to replace compressor control valve and re-gas. I've had parking brake buttons replaced multiple times as well as the parking brake module. The black plastic trim on the boot lid cracked - $700 for a new one. To top it all off, I need a new dual mass flywheel at $2800 inc labour. It's beginning to get beyond a joke

[Lasa911]

Guys,
I'm not an expert, something tells me this could be related to Fuel or fuel pressure.
Possibly lots of moisture in fuel or pressure build up while sitting in hot weather.

as a reference point,
Can you pls try changing your filling station, (Possibly Very busy BP petrol station).
and Try to open the flue lid to release the pressure in the tank before firing up the engine.


Had the same problem in my B7 Diesel Passat, (some time it’s taken about almost 30 seconds to Start),
I have taken it to my dealer, they told me to go only for BP diesel outlet, since then I have never used any other Diesel.

Good Luck.

[seanmau5]

I run my Passat CC on BP ultimate only. Haven’t used any other fuel in the nearly 4 years I’ve owned the car. I’m almost 100% certain it’s fuel related. Did it again this afternoon. This time I cranked the car until it finally started; battery, EPC light, running super rough, idling at 400rpm. The very slightest blip of the throttle then away we went. Smooth idle, lights went out, approx 600rpm, good to go. No DTC’s


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[seanmau5]

Finally captured a video of my hard start.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/X6b9BLyzADk)


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[kamold]

Finally captured a video of my hard start.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/X6b9BLyzADk)


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHave you had recall 24k6 done?
What is your engine ECU software version?

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[seanmau5]

No little plaque on the car for it. Just the DSG one.

03H 906 032 DQ

[kamold]

No little plaque on the car for it. Just the DSG one.

03H 906 032 DQRecall was for an ecu update to fix:

'To cure a random fault with throttle position sender reading an implausible signal for no reason and throwing an ECU fault code. ....Cold start issues....rough running in certain load levels.....'
etc translated from Dutch...

What is your software version on your ecu?
Eg 1904 or something...


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[seanmau5]

Ohhhh is that under the engine address in my scan? Here is a screenshot of it. http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2018/03/011d7ed956324c138cdde45e8ecd3e41-1.jpg


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[seanmau5]

And my issue is hot/cold start issues if sitting in the sun and it’s hot outside.. Sort of 28-29 degrees ambient temperature or above


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[kamold]

That's the current ecu software version for that engine unfortunately...no update available.
Was worth checking.

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[kamold]

What does the throttle body look like? Does it open up to 100%?
What does the intake look like in terms of carbon deposits?

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[seanmau5]

I assume the 3490 is the software version? My throttle body was cleaned the first time it was taken in for the issue but didn’t help. I was also suspecting carbon build up in the intake but I haven’t removed and inspected that yet. Would ambient heat really have an affect on the affect of carbon build up?


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[kamold]

I assume the 3490 is the software version? My throttle body was cleaned the first time it was taken in for the issue but didn’t help. I was also suspecting carbon build up in the intake but I haven’t removed and inspected that yet. Would ambient heat really have an affect on the affect of carbon build up?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYes that's the software version.
As for carbon buildup it's just about the only other thing I can think of sorry

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[seanmau5]

Surely the OP is getting email notifications about all this action that his thread is getting.......


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[seanmau5]

Oh thanks for the help too mate. I’ll keep searching.


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[kamold]

Are you down on power at all once it does start?
Possible vacuum leak?

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[kamold]

For what it's worth I have the same engine with 3488 ECU software and (touch wood) have never had any starting issues in any sort of ambient temperature.

[seanmau5]

Nope. Car doesn’t seem any different to when I first got it.

I’m pulling the intake off on Thursday to check for carbon build up. Failing that, I guess I’ll be checking for gummed up fuel lines. Just out of curiousity, have you ever heard of relays ‘sticking’ in hot weather? I’ve not heard my fuel pump not prime when I open the drivers door, and the regulator works on the output test but maybe it just hasn’t been hot enough when I did that testing.

[seanmau5]

I’m also going to test resistance across all of the sensors also, do you happen to have a service/workshop/repair manual or know where I might get my hands on one?

[kamold]

You can sign up for free on erwin.de and then pay 7Euro for 1 hour access.
Download all the wiring diagrams and workshop guides for your car.

[seanmau5]

Does the tank breath through the fuel filler cap?


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