Touareg compared to a Pajero DiD

[dmm_au]

I did a 4wd tag along trip close to Neerim, Victoria this weekend.
Some fairly steep rutted tracks, large rocks and a river crossing.
Now I was driving a landrover Defender with most of the off road gadgets, but there was a guy there with a brand new 2007 Pajero.

Now I wouldn't have thought a Touareg would have coped with what we did, but other than some electronic/user problems getting the Pajero into Centre Diff lock mode, the owner reported it coped well with everything.

I looked it up and the Paj has 225mm ground clearance, the Touareg has 237mm. Both vehicles have similar suspension and I expect wheel travel. Both have electronic traction control and commonly an auto gear box.

The Touareg has more power, more torque, and with decent tyres, I'd expect it could do everything the Pajero did.

Anyone care to comment?

[sumar]

I did a 4wd tag along trip close to Neerim, Victoria this weekend.
Some fairly steep rutted tracks, large rocks and a river crossing.
Now I was driving a landrover Defender with most of the off road gadgets, but there was a guy there with a brand new 2007 Pajero.

Now I wouldn't have thought a Touareg would have coped with what we did, but other than some electronic/user problems getting the Pajero into Centre Diff lock mode, the owner reported it coped well with everything.

I looked it up and the Paj has 225mm ground clearance, the Touareg has 237mm. Both vehicles have similar suspension and I expect wheel travel. Both have electronic traction control and commonly an auto gear box.

The Touareg has more power, more torque, and with decent tyres, I'd expect it could do everything the Pajero did.

Anyone care to comment?

Hi dmm_au,
I dont know where VW messures the ground cleareance, :???:I only messured mine and I found the cleareance to be 195-200mm. That is at its lowest point on the rail next to the front wheel. The plastic bash plates lowest point is 200-205mm. I am driving at the moment a new courtesy V6 TDI with air suspension, on normal, the lowest point again is 195-200mm, on heigh, it is 245-250mm, on extra, heigh it is 280mm.
After my steel suspension lift and larger tyres (265/65/17) mein is at 245-250mm depending on air or load.:D
Markus

[Transporter]

Don't forget approach and daparture angles when comparing vehicles.:)

[benissatan]

there is no comparison mitsubishi=rubbish volkswagen better engineered ha ha that is all ha ah ah

[Transporter]

there is no comparison mitsubishi=rubbish volkswagen better engineered ha ha that is all ha ah ah

Different cars for different people, i wouldn't call Pajero rubish, remmember Pajero beat the Treg in Dakar race and won it many times. :)

[dmm_au]

Hi dmm_au,
I dont know where VW measures the ground clearance, :???:I only measured mine and I found the clearance to be 195-200mm. That is at its lowest point on the rail next to the front wheel. The plastic bash plates lowest point is 200-205mm. Markus

That's rather disappointing, but I guess I'm comparing the published ground clearance rates of both vehicles. It seems likely the marketing people in both companies will be trying to justify the largest number possible.

I wonder what the definition of ground clearance is.

I would have though that if you drove over a log, with a diameter of 237mm, then once the wheels had cleared it, no part of the underside would touch the log. You real world measurements seem to contradict this.

This link basically suggest that a block of wood, in this case 237mm tall should fit under the vehicle. Surely if it doesn't it hasn't met it advertised specs.
http://www.answers.com/topic/ride-height?cat=health

As I have a vehicle on order, perhaps I'll take the opportunity to ask for a definition from VW.
I can't belive I'm the only one who would be upset to find this wasn't true. Perhaps FlipperDog or HarryD could check their newly delivered vehicles?

David

[bobzed57]

Don't believe the press. The clearance isn't all it's cracked up to be. I agree with Sumar on this one.

Having had to make up aluminium plates to replace missing plastic covers underneath I can vouch for the fact that there could be more clearance.

Lift kit, here I come.

Bob Z

[sumar]

http://www.answers.com/topic/ride-height?cat=health

As I have a vehicle on order, perhaps I'll take the opportunity to ask for a definition from VW.
I can't belive I'm the only one who would be upset to find this wasn't true. Perhaps FlipperDog or HarryD could check their newly delivered vehicles?

David

That was my understanding too and I would love to hear what there definition is.:rolleyes:

[Flipper Dog]

Just had a look at the clearance and took out the tape measure. 238mm or there about.
That is standard 255/60 R17 wheels and tyres parked on my level concrete garage floor.
There is some plastic dressing around the general area but this is 5-10mm higher up into the vehicles body.
The part which is the lowest is a steel support bar running along the drivers and front passengers’ footwell.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/attachment.php?attachmentid=1333&stc=1&d=1194946442

Hope this helps.

Flipper Dog

Reference below:
Steel suspension. Measuring device a 300g spray can 234mm high. Was able to slide under vehicle at all points without making contact.

[sumar]

Just had a look at the clearance and took out the tape measure. 238mm or there about.
That is standard 255/60 R17 wheels and tyres parked on my level concrete garage floor.
There is some plastic dressing around the general area but this is 5-10mm higher up into the vehicles body.
The part which is the lowest is a steel support bar running along the drivers and front passengers’ footwell.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

Hope this helps.

Flipper Dog
Strange, :???:do you have air suspension or steel? Did you messure between the centre of the wheels. Can you drive across a block of wood say 235mm heigh?

Markus

[Transporter]

I wouldn't doubt VW when they say ground clearance is 238mm, than it is 238mm.
Let me put it this way. If you work with wood you are working within 1mm, if you work with steel or metals you work within 0.1mm - 0.001mm,
if you write articles in magazines you are journalist and I don't know on what scale you are working, how accurate is your device you use for measuring the ground clearance.
So you shouldn't doubt what would be in today’s modern age of laser measuring devices a 1 minute job to verify ground clearance of the vehicle. Car manufacturers know it even before the prototype is made. And what somebody write in some magazine is not important.
Who do you trust more journalists or VW engineering team.

In my opinion you should be able to slide 238mm box if you want under the vehicle without scratching it, or drive over that box without scratching it on perfectly level surface. But when you wear down tyres just 1mm the ground clearance will be less than 238mm specified.

Driving skills are as important as the ground clearance and approach and departure angles.:)

[Flipper Dog]

Now here is one for you all.
Reference is the owners manual.
Booklet 3.2 (Driving) page 77
"Ground clearance. This is the vertical distance between the level ground and the lowest item on the vehicle. Vehicles without pneumatic suspension. maximum ground clearance 240mm.
Vehicles with pneumatic suspension. maximum ground clearance 160mm in load level, maximum 300mm in X'tra level.
Vehicles with pneumatic sports suspension. maximum ground clearance 160mm in load level, maximum 280mm in X'tra level."

Booklet 3.5 (Technical data) page 18 (165kw diesel V6 TDI with DPF)
"Ground clearance at permissible gross vehicle weight vehicles without ride height settings 163mm. Vehicles with ride height settings. At street level 220mm, at load level (minimum) 160mm & at X'tra level (maximum) 300mm."

Reference is the Volkswagen Touareg brochure dated as at June 2007 page 35 (Dimensions)
"Off road dimensions, ground clearance steel spring suspension 237mm, air suspension 160-300mm."

I had measured my steel suspension unladen vehicle first using a tape measure and then by running a 234mm high spray can of 300g under the vehicle, so I would say my vehicle has a ground clearance of at lease 237mm as is.
Now if I was to get in with the wife, 2 x kids, the dog, a full esky and all the other rubbish I need to carry for a family outing I would believe that would reduce my ground clearance by some ??mm.

Thoughts:?:

Flipper Dog

[dmm_au]

Well I want to believe the ground clearance is the advertised 237mm (or perhaps 240 as the manual states, but the lawyers made them advertise 237mm to allow for a full tank of fuel, the dog, wife kids and gear)

Thanks for doing the measurement on you new vehicle flipperDog, certainly make me feel it's likely my new car will be the same.

Thing I can't square away is why Markus and Bob Z had different observations. Both guys come across as knowledgeable and able to take measurements.
Surely it isn't the difference between the Facelift Model, which Flipper has, and the R5 that the other two own. The difference seems to great??

David

[sumar]

Vehicles with pneumatic sports suspension. maximum ground clearance 160mm in load level, maximum 280mm in X'tra level."

Flipper Dog

That checks with my messures I took of the loan Treg, I my have had in sport mode, I cant double check anymore as it has gone back. My own still has clearance of 245mm but that is with my 45-50mm lifted suspension.
The other messuring point for veryfication is the higest point on the mudguards, mine read between 895-900mm, the loaner at high setting was 900mm xtra heigh was front 920-5mm and rear was 930mm. It certainly has me puzzled:confused:

[dmm_au]

Sounds like we need someone with an un-modified R5 to confirm their 'ride height'. I think FlipperDogs method of sliding an aerosol can under all the lowest points of the car is a really good and easy test. The bent tape measure looks a little more controversial.

Understandably you're going to feel a bit jibbed, if your 45-50mm lift kit has only resulted in 5-10mm more than stock :(

[sumar]

Sounds like we need someone with an un-modified R5 to confirm their 'ride height'. I think FlipperDogs method of sliding an aerosol can under all the lowest points of the car is a really good and easy test. The bent tape measure looks a little more controversial.

Understandably you're going to feel a bit jibbed, if your 45-50mm lift kit has only resulted in 5-10mm more than stock :(


Well befor I had the suspension modyfied the messure on the mudguards was only around 850mm, so istill got my lift:)

[Flipper Dog]

Just got home to read this thread and had a look at the measurements as Sumar has taken.


That checks with my messures I took of the loan Treg, I my have had in sport mode, I cant double check anymore as it has gone back. My own still has clearance of 245mm but that is with my 45-50mm lifted suspension.
The other messuring point for veryfication is the higest point on the mudguards, mine read between 895-900mm, the loaner at high setting was 900mm xtra heigh was front 920-5mm and rear was 930mm. It certainly has me puzzled

I am looking at 878mm front and 880mm rear. The vehicle has no cargo onboard and 1/3 tank of fuel, I do also have the tow bar with tongue fitted.
Do you think that Volkswagen has raised the vehicle by 30mm for the facelift model or is it that the R5 was lower due to it's suspension configeration?

Well befor I had the suspension modyfied the messure on the mudguards was only around 850mm, so istill got my lift

Someone should make a trip to a dealer with a tape measure to look at a new R5 and steel V6 FSI:)

Flipper Dog

[bobzed57]

More for the mix, my front and rear guards are at approx 870mm +/- 2. Half a tank and no load.

I'm not disputing anyone's measurements, but for my usage, it's not quite enough.

Cheers