X-Pack Paint protection?

[Merrick]

Going by Merrick's recent post he is the one that signed up to do nothing but rubbish other paint protection products, he's never posted anywhere else! - He's posting in a forum sponsored by CCP and in another thread he's questioning and rubbishing Nanolex? - great for hes business that is! does he even own a VW?

As a matter of fact I do own VW Passat R36 since August 2008, one of the first R36 in Australia and I have been on and off on this forum since, however I never registered until this year in June.
Regarding to your expression “rubbishing Nanolex” I would recommend to re-read my post on page 9 #89

[Maverick]

That's not true. We aren't talking about a $7000 carnauba wax here that gives people a certain look to their car. This can be considered placebo by many where they think their $7000 carnauba wax looks better than the guy who paid $50.

We are talking about something completely different. People want durability, resistance to chemicals, and scratch resistance from these types of products and that is why they buy them. All these can be measured in a basic way by anyone.

But the measurement is still based on someone having a new product applied after their old product was wearing off (one example) and like everything people will still see what they want to see. It's like people who get their car back from being serviced, claim it has more power but all that has occurred is the battery has been disconnected or they were driving a loan car that day with less power.

Durability people measure by the water behaviour. Does it bead water, does that hydrophobic behaviour die off. Chemical resistance people measure by what happens when a bird poos on their car or when they wash it with strong chemicals does it strip the coating? Does the bird poo etch the coating? Scratch resistance they observe how swirl marks do or don't build up on the surface of their car compared to their previous experience.

This is not placebo. It either does it, or it doesn't.

It's very hard for anyone to compare products in the real world, driving conditions change over time, storage conditions change and so on so for someone to compare one product to another when they may have had the other product on their car for two years is very hard to do. Plus there is a lot of one upmanship with marketing to the point where Slick 50 looks like an legit product, I'm not saying any products are bad but I do think the marketing leaves a lot to be desired and there is a lot of BS going around with claims that are difficult to prove correct or incorrect.

Your bird poo example is a good one, no two poos are alike and one may be a lot stronger then another identical looking one so it's hard to compare the resistance of a product this way.

[ryanr32]

Regarding to your expression “rubbishing Nanolex” I would recommend to re-read my post on page 9 #89

You posted what you think the chemical charactaristics are of the product, just like a few other products. I just dont see what your getting at by breaking them down? What makes your product so different?

The only true way to test the difference is to do a side by side test on a single panel between these products, all your theories mean nothing in the real world.

It's often a placebo effect, if you spend money on something and tell others how great it is you will want it be great. Happens with many products that people buy, technically they can't work but in people's minds they do work. And some are still decent sealers but way overpriced with BS claims about coatings as hard as diamonds and so forth.

Please show me where Nanolex or Opti-Coat or the others are stating facts that are not true and are pure marketing BS?

He's posted in other threads

About paint protection and nothing else, but you slam me for joining and replying to this thread just because i have not YET posted in other threads?

BTW sponsoring a forum does not give you ownership of the forum, it would hardly give people a balanced view of products if you could only discuss one product in a favourable way.

Never said other products shouldnt be spoken about in a sponsored forum, theres no balance here anyway. Anything that gets said about another product other then Ducoscratch seems to get critisised and called marketing BS anyway?

I stated clearly that I have no connection with Merrick apart from being a satisfied customer and haven't spoken or emailed him for at least 18 months. My history of recommending products and vendors is open for all to see, you on the other hand joined the forum to jump into a thread and launch at attack and clearly you have some relationship with one of the products (or vendors that push that product).

Good for you, there's also customers of other paint protection companies that are very satisfied too - just because a product states that it can withstand bird poo etching doesnt mean its not true and is false marketing just because Merrick states "What I know there is no product on the market that can withstand a bird poo attack for a week". Im not quite sure how he would know this when he hasnt actually tried the products? Ive seen reviews of other products that have had bird poo left on for several weeks with no ill affects and in some cases the bird poo has just broken down and disappeared, if a product is chemical resistant and can withstand alkaline or acid cleaners then why wouldnt it withstand bird poo? I dont see how this is making false claims if the product actually does do what it states?

But it seems Merrick is quick to try and break those products down and shoot down their warranty terms which he has not seen first hand.

As i mentioned before, im not a pro nor do i know any personally, my postings here are purely my personal thoughts from what i have read about products and reviews, I'm simply an enthusiest that enjoys detailing my own car and have been reading detailings forums for over 6 years, so yes i do have a strong interest in detailing which is probably why i posted here first and found Merricks claims interesting, and just like you i have an opinion and a right to post, so just cause i joined up and my first post was in here doesnt make me any different then you?

[Maverick]

The only true way to test the difference is to do a side by side test on a single panel between these products, all your theories mean nothing in the real world.

Plenty of people have done this, go and look at some of the decent detailing forums overseas (mainly US based).

Please show me where Nanolex or Opti-Coat or the others are stating facts that are not true and are pure marketing BS?

Ok seeing as you bring it up, these from a quick 30 second google.

Nanolex (nanolex)

"Nanolex is the best protection."

So it's the BEST protection. How is this measured? Marketing BS.

"the latest in genuine nanotechnology coatings and sealants"

Genuine nanotechnology as opposed to non genuine? Marketing BS.

And Opti-Coat

"Opti-Coat is not a nano particle, it is rather a pre-polymer that cross links and forms a continuous film on the surfaces it is applied to, similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coat finish. Opti-Coat also reacts with the substrate that it is applied to so it will not delaminate. Nano particles are sub micron particles that are created by controlled reactions or by breaking down larger particles. They do not react or form bonds.

As far as the durability of Opti-Coat, it is similar to urethane clears. It will not wash away or break down, however, you can polish it over time ! The hardness starts at 6-7 but will increase over time to 9H as it is exposed to heat. Coat is based on a resin pre-polymer that we manufacture and once it is applied, it cross links and reacts with urethane and other clear coat paints. Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive coating in use. This coating like a regular clear coat lasts indefinitely unless it is removed by polishing, sanding, or paint removers.”

Where do I start with this, the whole two paragraphs are just full of marketing BS.

About paint protection and nothing else, but you slam me for joining and replying to this thread just because i have not YET posted in other threads?

Actually he has posted in other threads that are not related.

Never said other products shouldnt be spoken about in a sponsored forum, theres no balance here anyway. Anything that gets said about another product other then Ducoscratch seems to get critisised and called marketing BS anyway?

Nothing stopping you from asking questions about outer products or finding some information to discredit his claims.

As i mentioned before, im not a pro nor do i know any personally, my postings here are purely my personal thoughts from what i have read about products and reviews, I'm simply an enthusiest that enjoys detailing my own car and have been reading detailings forums for over 6 years, so yes i do have a strong interest in detailing which is probably why i posted here first and found Merricks claims interesting, and just like you i have an opinion and a right to post, so just cause i joined up and my first post was in here doesnt make me any different then you?

You posted nothing to refute any of his claims, all you did was attack him and me. My history with regards to vendors and products is there for everyone to see, you on the other hand come out of nowhere with a seemingly vested interest. If you had researched for 6 years you would know that much of what Merrick states is correct, if on the other hand you've hung around a forum where all they do is pat each other on the back for buying the latest nanotechnology diamond encrusted sealent then that would explain your post.

[Hail22]

You know that his a forum where people express their opinions and have discussions?

If you can't deal with a product that you use receiving negative feedback either toughen up or do your own research to see if there is any substance to the claims. If you're happy with the product who cares.

So why do you continuously come on here and attempt to stir problems then?

Yes of course you have an opinion but there comes a point when your opinion changes into trolling/making it a personal battle between yourself and your reps vs Optimum, Nano etc?

I may be wrong in my assumptions but your replies are squarely directed at people who provide services such as Nano, Optimum etc.

Try not to take offense to my post

[Maverick]

So why do you continuously come on here and attempt to stir problems then?

Yes of course you have an opinion but there comes a point when your opinion changes into trolling/making it a personal battle between yourself and your reps vs Optimum, Nano etc?

Where have I done this?

I may be wrong in my assumptions but your replies are squarely directed at people who provide services such as Nano, Optimum etc.

Yes you are wrong - where have I done this?

It's pretty clear that you believe* all the marketing gimmicks, as you said in one of your earlier posts your coating is a 9H hardness similar to if not the same hardness as a diamond but don't assume that everyone else will fall for the marketing BS.

*or because of some referral kickback - you did promote a discount if they mentioned your name. (link - http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/foru...tml#post731360)

Try not to take offense to my post

It's hard not to take offense at such an inaccurate post from someone who clearly has not followed the thread.

[blake_jl]

"Opti-Coat is not a nano particle, it is rather a pre-polymer that cross links and forms a continuous film on the surfaces it is applied to, similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coat finish. Opti-Coat also reacts with the substrate that it is applied to so it will not delaminate. Nano particles are sub micron particles that are created by controlled reactions or by breaking down larger particles. They do not react or form bonds.

As far as the durability of Opti-Coat, it is similar to urethane clears. It will not wash away or break down, however, you can polish it over time ! The hardness starts at 6-7 but will increase over time to 9H as it is exposed to heat. Coat is based on a resin pre-polymer that we manufacture and once it is applied, it cross links and reacts with urethane and other clear coat paints. Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive coating in use. This coating like a regular clear coat lasts indefinitely unless it is removed by polishing, sanding, or paint removers.”

Where do I start with this, the whole two paragraphs are just full of marketing BS.

This is factual information provided by an expert chemist. The guy formulated clear coat finishes all his life. Why all of a sudden is the way these coatings work nothing but BS marketing?

To be honest, from your reply to my previous post you are now just clutching at straws.

[Buller_Scott]

To be honest, from your reply to my previous post you are now just clutching at straws.

+1 ... this is more about winning an argument than staying on point. to suggest that people who see water beading / sheeting ability over time as an indicator of the effectiveness of the products they're using, are really just experiencing placebo, is utter horse sht.

i'm no expert either, but the reason i asked mr. duco scratch for an explanation in layman's terms is because i myself am trying to reconcile how the very few customers of his on this forum, who have paid $x for the three year protection pack, or indeed $2x for the seven year pack, are able to discredit the personal experiences of other forum members in the context of nanolex and opticoat etc?

if it's good, it's good. if it's sht, it's sht. i have no problems in admitting that i've used some pretty shtty products before. and also some "acceptable" ones. gloss and shine is second to protection durability on my agenda, and i judge this simply by watching for when the water stops beading.

and wouldnt you know it? turtle wax platinum seems to last the same as the super hard shell wax, the eagle one spray wax is far superior to the autoglym equivalent even though it's half the price, and the one that beaded water the longest? nu-finish once a year....

i've just recently purchased a well reputed, well respected, widely applauded sealant (wont name brands), as well as a wax to bring out depth, as i'll be working to get the car looking immaculate for DOVW this year. i'll be posting results in this forum.

i have nothing to lose or gain from the sealant i've bought. if it only beads for two weeks, i'll be shtty with the product and i wont try it again. if it beads for 3 months, then i'll put it down as doing what it's supposed to, job done. either way, it wont be "placebo", like pretty much ALL aftermarket intake mods are.

p.s. just as a word to the wise, perhaps one shouldnt dismiss the experiences of people on here to be "placebo", because the moment you come on talking about your positive experiences with a little-known vendor on here, guess what? you've just told everyone that personal experiences are often placebo, AND THUS SO ARE YOURS (8th grade debating).

[Corey_R]

Maverick, I know that you've been happy with Merrick's work putting Ventureshield Stonegard on your car in the past. You and other people have stated this on the forums, and whether Merrick knows this or not, I have also referred people to his business when they've asked where to get PPF in QLD.

However, PPF and the quality and professionalism of the installation isn't the topic being discussed.

Since you haven't been in contact with Merrick for 18 months, have you looked at his new product range of "Ceramic Polymer Nanotechnology" paint care? If you haven't, please go and look at the website. Once you have, or if you already have, can you please explain to me how Merrick's website is any different to any of these other "marketting BS" examples that you are pointing out?

This is what I object to in all these posts, and I feel that this is what other members are objecting to here as well. Merrick is coming to a forum and giving his opinion of other peoples products, but what is it based on? Any hands on experience with those products? Any scientific studies he's conducted on those products? Or just reading their websites/forums etc?

Merrick appears to be telling people that competitors to his products cannot possibly do what they claim, and that people should look around the web and find his products instead. Yet, in my opinion from reading his site, his products make pretty much the same claims that he is claiming other companies can't meet. So why can his?

Yes, I'm not a scientist, and I haven't done any hands on comparison of all these products in a lab or controlled environment. But if Merrick isn't a scientist or hasn't conducted these tests either, how are his words any more valid than anyone elses here?

[Maverick]

+1 ... this is more about winning an argument than staying on point. to suggest that people who see water beading / sheeting ability over time as an indicator of the effectiveness of the products they're using, are really just experiencing placebo, is utter horse sht.

My comment about the placebo effect was about people buying products with all sorts of claims like hard as diamonds and claiming they were fantastic when a much cheaper sealer would likely last just as long and given similar results. If you bothered to read the paragraph where I said this - http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/foru...tml#post733178 - I also said that these same products are still decent sealers but with added BS claims (and associated costs).

p.s. just as a word to the wise, perhaps one shouldnt dismiss the experiences of people on here to be "placebo", because the moment you come on talking about your positive experiences with a little-known vendor on here, guess what? you've just told everyone that personal experiences are often placebo, AND THUS SO ARE YOURS (8th grade debating).

Is misquoting people and making thinly veiled personal attacks all you can do?