Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: DSG & Torque

  1. #11

    What there rated at & what they can take are two different thing's as Guy has mentioned.

    I remember the first BMW Mini Cooper S' gearbox was rated at the amount of torque the engine produced. Rarely seen one stuff up due to breakage, even with a power upgrade.

    Speaking of that, the factory fitted John Cooper Work's kit exceeded the gearboxes torque rating!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    383
    Users Country Flag
    Quote Originally Posted by golfworx View Post
    What there rated at & what they can take are two different thing's as Guy has mentioned.

    I remember the first BMW Mini Cooper S' gearbox was rated at the amount of torque the engine produced. Rarely seen one stuff up due to breakage, even with a power upgrade.

    Speaking of that, the factory fitted John Cooper Work's kit exceeded the gearboxes torque rating!
    You're talking about the Factor of Safety... most of the components have some factor of safety associated with them, sure they can take 'x' amount more but once that 'x' is reached the component fails.....

    So in the case of the DSG VW might say it's rated to 350Nm.... But can take around 450Nm (Thats a random number I just pulled out) until it fails. With the factor of safety applied they might give a nominal number say 370Nm (Again another random number I pulled out)

    Can you imagine reaching the red-line when driving and your car just falling apart???? Would be interesting to watch though.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Townsville QLD
    Posts
    173
    Quote Originally Posted by golfworx View Post
    Speaking of that, the factory fitted John Cooper Work's kit exceeded the gearboxes torque rating!
    Thinks: my stock standard 125Kw TDI with its 360NM rating exceeds the DSG rating set by VW. So if the DSG ever breaks it's VW's fault. Wonder if they would accept liability??

    Oh stop thinking, it pulls so hard that I am glad it has head rests to stop any whiplash and I haven't even tried S mode in anger yet.
    Granite Passat sedan TDI (125kw), DSG, beige leather
    Candy White Polo 6R, 66TDI, DSG, no options

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    3,553
    Quote Originally Posted by vanDub View Post
    Thinks: my stock standard 125Kw TDI with its 360NM rating exceeds the DSG rating set by VW. So if the DSG ever breaks it's VW's fault. Wonder if they would accept liability??

    Oh stop thinking, it pulls so hard that I am glad it has head rests to stop any whiplash and I haven't even tried S mode in anger yet.
    The 125KW TDI puts out 350NM of torque and both of those figures are at the flywheel.

    The DSG gearbox limits the amount of torque to protect itself and as has been posted earlier in the thread the DSG can easily handle a lot more then that.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    919
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_H View Post
    VW ran stock DSG transmissions in the new Scirocco race cars in the Nurburgring 24 hour recently & the cars reportedly ran ~500nm under race conditions & testing & all finished fine. (They used APR parts on the motors)

    In typical German style, the generally have a minimum buffer of 30% on their ratings.

    I know for a fact that there is a dozen DSG cars happily running 290kw & 450nm on DSG gearboxes for a long time now
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    The 125KW TDI puts out 350NM of torque and both of those figures are at the flywheel.

    The DSG gearbox limits the amount of torque to protect itself and as has been posted earlier in the thread the DSG can easily handle a lot more then that.

    I'm curious now - APR and REVO sell flashes that up the GTI torque to 400NM or so. Others limit the increase to 350NM.

    If an APR or REVO goes in, does the 400 figure become marketing hype when the DSG reduces torque to a max of 350 internally?


    2008 Blue Graphite GTI DSG with Latte leather.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Darwin, NT
    Posts
    65
    Thread Starter
    Yeah - that was my intial query. It would *seem* from my investigations that the flash actually varies the DSG control to the upgraded amount (i.e. if you use REVO then from 350nm to 430nm)

    However nothing I can find comprehensively confirms that (other than the dyno's you find on the ecu chip websites I guess).
    2008 GT Sport | 2.0TDi | Anthracite Leather | Sat nav | Bluetooth | Candy White

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    I'm curious now - APR and REVO sell flashes that up the GTI torque to 400NM or so. Others limit the increase to 350NM.

    If an APR or REVO goes in, does the 400 figure become marketing hype when the DSG reduces torque to a max of 350 internally?
    Sorry to dig up an old thread, but this is a good question re torque truncation and what you effectively get. Any of the sellers / tuners / experts have a comment on this?

    Thank you.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    183
    Assuming that the DSG limits the torque to 350 (or whatever, it doesn't matter) then some people have been asking what the point of chipping is.

    I got my MKV Jetta chipped because while the peak torque is supposedly now 400 ish NM, the old peak torque of 320NM is available accross a much wider rev range. So even if it limits to 350NM, that 350 is available more often than with the stock programming.

    I have stock 205/16 tyres anyway so massive torque really won't help me.

    PS: If it does self limit, how did Superchups get a score of 397NM on the dyno? Is their graph a fake?http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/golfmk520tdi.pdf

    Apparently I can log torque (engine, not gearbox) via VAGcom so I'll have to try that and see what the result is.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by LotusGTI View Post
    Sorry to dig up an old thread, but this is a good question re torque truncation and what you effectively get. Any of the sellers / tuners / experts have a comment on this?

    Thank you.
    It is possible to get 400+nm past the ECU's torque manager - this can be seen on a single roller MAHA or Bosch dyno that can calculate engine torque (where most dyno's in operation in Australia can only see tractive effort).

    The torque manager component of the ecu controls how it is delivered (Primary function) and maximum as a secondary component. I have seen 450+nm cars (DSG) running on Oettingers Dyno in Germany.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    113

    Letter and reply from APR:

    Question: Hi Guys,

    The product index shows that the GTI flash upgrades can increase torque output to 410 Nm.

    I've read somewhere that the DSG is rated for 350 Nm, and that it has built in sensors to limited torque.

    On a GTI DSG car, does the flashed ECU get limited to 350 Nm? Or does the flash also modify the DSG to allow higher torque output?

    Thanks,

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It modifies it so it will accept more torque, we have seen ZERO problems with running 330 lb.ft. (447 Nm) of torque!

    GO APR,
    Chris Gigon
    Sales Representative/Financing Manager
    APR, LLC. Phone: (800)680-7921
    4800 US Hwy. 280 W. Tech: (334)502-5181
    Opelika, AL 36801 Fax: (334)502-5180

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
| |