1.4 TSI (118tsi) Timing chain/supercharger fix

[Syd118TSI]

Recently there has been some noise during startup on our 2010 118tsi. Yesterday when my wife was driving the engine light came on and the car went into limp home mode/limp mode. She was able to drive it home lacking power, and took it to the dealership today.

They checked the engine light and said that it wasn't conclusive but they suspected that it was timing chain related. They gave a quote for replacing the timing chain (and tensioner) that was $2,800 - roughly $2,000 labour (14 hours) $800 parts (not itemised on the quote).

They suggested that it would be ok to continue to drive the car to see if the problems continue (made note of the recent hot weather), and tentatively booked in a date to do the work in case they continue. She drove home and it was lacking power though the engine light did not come on (very short drive). When she next drove it the light came on and the car was initially lacking power before being ok for a period, then again entering limp mode.

Is $2,800 the going rate for this piece of work? Can anyone suggest an alternate specialist in Sydney (preferably West) that could do the work.

I saw that there was an admission by VW in 2012 to German Auto Magazine Autobild noting that there are problems with the chain on 1.4tsi. I'm not sure whether this is referring to the timing chain tensioner which has apparently had a design update.

This is a google translation:
On certain VW engines there are increasingly problems with steered control chains (marked in red).
Normally, the control chain should last a lifetime. This is confirmed by VW on request of AUTO BILD. The chain is designed for "the service life of the engine". VW does not want to express itself however to possible causes of damage. Only the speculation: Fritz Indra from the University of Vienna, Engine Engineer: "At first I would think of material problems of a supplier The damage to certain models occur. "

Despite the large number of trouble box complaints, Volkswagen speaks of individual cases in different versions of this engine. Therefore there is a whole goodwill only up to a vehicle age of three years, one year after the end of the factory warranty, at a maximum of 100,000 km. In the case of up to six-year-old cars with a maximum of 200,000 kilometers, VW will grant pro-rata charges after the individual case has been examined if the owner can prove complete service intervals according to the manufacturer's specifications.

AUTOBILD.DE - Testberichte - Automarkt - Autokauf

[Mk R]

I've not had timing chain issues but I would expect some serious internal destruction if it suddenly failed. You may have decompression loss from a cracked piston too. A compression test will let you know.

If it is timing belt related and you have not had your pistons replaced to the revised post 2012 version or a forged version then you should consider having that done at the same time. that will up the price further so you may wish to consider just getting a whole central engine block swap from a wrecker from a 2012 or later donor car. That will likely end up being cheaper...

$2800-3500 is a reasonable estimate for a central engine block replacement. About $1500 labour and sundries and $2000 for a used engine.

[Syd118TSI]

I've not had timing chain issues but I would expect some serious internal destruction if it suddenly failed. You may have decompression loss from a cracked piston too. A compression test will let you know.

If it is timing belt related and you have not had your pistons replaced to the revised post 2012 version or a forged version then you should consider having that done at the same time. that will up the price further so you may wish to consider just getting a whole central engine block swap from a wrecker from a 2012 or later donor car. That will likely end up being cheaper...

$2800-3500 is a reasonable estimate for a central engine block replacement. About $1500 labour and sundries and $2000 for a used engine.

I'm not sure that they suggested that it failed. The reason for the engine light was either not fully disclosed or not fully known - they would know exactly what the code was, but I guess not exactly what it implies.

The engine is original so no piston replacement/forging.

I'm hoping that limp mode came on here as a preventative measure to engine damage, not as a result of it - not sure whether this is naive based on the experience of others. I didn't talk to the service department at all, so I'm not sure whether there was any mention of potential engine damage.

[Syd118TSI]

Spoke to the service centre and got the full story.

When the car came in after going into "limp home mode" it had two historic alerts, one for the supercharger clutch and the other suggesting a timing issue.

They ran diagnostics and cleared the alert/engine light. They advised to drive it to see if problems re-occurred and booked it in for a timing chain replacements (the aforementioned cost of approx $2800) thinking that was potentially the culprit and that the timing chain had stretched and was out.

When driven the engine light came back on and the car again went into limp home mode. It was taken back to the service department. They ran further diagnostics today and found that the alert this time was only for the supercharger clutch. When they tested they found that it had blown a fuse. They replaced it and it blew again. They investigated the wiring and found that the wiring tested ok. They then diagnosed a fault with the supercharger clutch which was causing the fuse to blow.

They're suggesting not to go ahead with the timing chain change due to the high labour cost, as there is a chance that the initial alert for the timing chain was a result of the supercharger fault and not an issue with the timing chain at all (their explanation was that the sensors are not on the chain itself, but are on the camshaft). I'm not sure how plausible this is, and having read a few horror stories about engine damage caused by timing chain/tensioner issues I am more than slightly concerned. The cost for the replacement of the supercharger clutch is around $1300. If it's faulty as they suggest then it needs to be replaced regardless of the timing chain. After that they then suggest driving it as normal and waiting to see whether the light returns.



P.S. If a mod reads this can they please change the thread title to "1.4 TSI (118tsi) Timing Chain / Supercharger Clutch issues" in case this thread serves to help someone in the future. Not sure why I called it a timing belt in the title knowing full well that it's a chain! TIA

[idaho]

The supercharger clutch failed on our Mk5 GT Sport (125kw BLG engine) and it blew the fuse basically as soon as a new fuses was inserted. We didn't have time to repair it until recently so drove it around for a couple of months like that. In the GT Sport when the check engine light is on the engine rpm limit is 3000 rpm so you had to be a bit thoughtful before making moves in traffic but other than that it wasn't a problem. The error code reported supercharger short circuit to ground.

A friend with a workshop and I set to it on the hoist one day because we weren't convinced it was a short circuit in the clutch, but perhaps a rubbed through wire somewhere. He had a new supercharger clutch / waterpump assembly in stock for a 118 TSI rebuild (Mk5 & Mk6 show the same part number) and we were intending to disassemble the car far enough to be able to simply plug the new clutch into the wiring loom to check if the fuse blew or not and proceed as required from there.

However, as soon as we removed the main drive belt, coolant started to leak out of the water pump and we could see slight signs of a prior weep. Of note is that the coolant level in the bottle had not dropped noticeably. So we removed the waterpump / supercharger clutch assembly and found that some coolant had leaked through the supercharger clutch and it was seized solid. We fitted the new one and everything has worked fine since. As well as coolant we needed one new intercooler pipe O-ring which had swollen and would not refit. We estimated it would be about a $1200 job at retail price.

[Syd118TSI]

Thanks for posting that Idaho, gives me some confidence that the immediate issues will be resolved with the supercharger clutch/water pump.

I suspect there is still an issue with the timing chain tensioner but that is completely separate and may not have manifested itself in any way that affects the driving of the car. If the sound is still there on start up I will take it back and get their opinion regarding the timing chain and tensioner.

[The_Hawk]

A second opinion from a good VW specialist might be a good idea before you sink too much (any) money into the car.

[Syd118TSI]

A second opinion from a good VW specialist might be a good idea before you sink too much (any) money into the car.

Thanks. I will keep an ear/eye on it. If there is any persistent noise that could be timing chain related I will take it back to VW for their thoughts (in the interest of potentially following up on a goodwill fix). They were actually very good to deal with, and have also been in the past. They managed to get the work completed ahead of schedule and we have the car back now. No noise on startup, though the weather has warmed up so I'd like to listen on a cold morning.

The car drives wonderfully, no issues at all, so the immediate problems were all supercharger related. So far it's a pretty good outcome - apart from the almost $1,400 to fix it. Having said that reading all of the other issues people have had with the timing chain and tensioner does have me more than slightly concerned. I really like the car, as does my wife who is the main driver of it. We just had the mechatronics unit replaced not so long ago and were thinking of keeping the car for a few years more when we made the decision to do that - repercussion of the shudder in low gears in particular. The clutch pack has been replaced twice under warranty. The DSG after the mechatronics unit was replaced earlier in the year (partial goodwill total cost was $800) drives like new again, but as always with this DSG model I'm expecting slight issues to develop over time. Worth noting that the DSG did not fail, spectacularly or otherwise, at any point, it was just the shudder/slipping that prompted the enquiries at the last service which resulted in them faulting the mechatronics unit.

Engine wise the supercharger issue has been the first problem, which is possibly just down to luck as others have had problems with the engine. It has always been run on 98 and most of the KMs are on highways.