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Frankenstrat
11-06-2012, 01:55 PM
My Golf has started developing wheel bearing noise (approx 48,000km odo reading), I think it's coming from the rear driver's side.

1) How can I check for worn wheel bearings with the car stationary?
2) Is this a warranty repair?
3) If so, do I have to take it back to where I bought the car (Wangarra VW) or can I take to the closest VW dealer to me (JH, VP)

Umai Naa!!
11-06-2012, 02:28 PM
You would need to jack that corner of the car up, and rotate the wheel by hand. You'd hear a very similar noise to what you'd hear in the car as you'd drive. You also may feel some freeplay in the hub.

Also, check that your tyres aren't scalloped (extreme feathering). This is common with the Bridgestones. This could be the noise you're hearing.

MkVIGTI
11-06-2012, 06:53 PM
You can go to any VW dealer for warranty work, no need to go back to where you bought it from.

Frankenstrat
12-06-2012, 10:11 AM
Thanks boys, I appreciate the replies. The tyres aren't Bridgestones, they're Pirelli 205/55 R16, they're noisy at the best of times but they're grippy enough.

I do happen to have an old stethoscope tucked away in the house somewhere, so I might hold it to each wheel as I spin them in turn. That should pinpoint the errant bearing. I'll report back with the eventual outcome.

jacs
12-06-2012, 06:41 PM
My Golf has started developing wheel bearing noise (approx 48,000km odo reading), I think it's coming from the rear driver's side.

1) How can I check for worn wheel bearings with the car stationary?
2) Is this a warranty repair?
3) If so, do I have to take it back to where I bought the car (Wangarra VW) or can I take to the closest VW dealer to me (JH, VP)

Hi, my daughters Corolla developed a noise in the rear which i swore was wheel bearing noise. To cut a long story short, we ended up changing the rear tyres (after one was damaged in an accident) and noise gone ! The original sp300e dunlops that became noisy still had at least 60% tread on them and appeared perfectly/evenly worn

rossw
13-06-2012, 09:47 AM
A flat spotted or out of balance tyre will often sound like a worn wheel bearing.

Frankenstrat
13-06-2012, 02:45 PM
To the best of my knowledge, the tyres don't have flat-spots nor have they been damaged. However, this weekend I shall jack her up and check each wheel in turn for free-play and listen with the stethoscope as I rotate each wheel in turn. I hope it IS just an out-of-balance tyre, that's an easy fix and I won't have to take any time off work.

Steveo
16-06-2012, 05:55 PM
As Umai Naa!! says it could be the tyres. My Bridgestones are feathered and it really sounds like the bearings are gone. Had exactly this problem with a previous car (and Bridgestones) so I got the dealer to check during a service. Not a bearing problem.

Replaced the tyres and suddenly the "bearing" noise disappeared.

Frankenstrat
19-06-2012, 10:42 AM
I jacked up the car on the weekend and checked each wheel in turn, there was no discernable noise coming from the hubs. I put my fingers on the coil springs too as I turned each of the wheels to see if I could feel any roughness, but no. I'm thinking you may be right that it's the tyres not the bearings. I did noticed an indication of scrubbing on the inside of the rear driver's side tyre. The stethoscope trick didn't work though, too much noise from the VW logo in the centre of the wheel as it turned.

I'll rotate the tyres next weekend to see if the noise abates.

khamtran
19-06-2012, 11:44 AM
I had a similar problem with my Golf which I also thought could be bearing related. People suggested my tyres (Bridgestone RE050 Potenzas) could be scalloped and after taking it into VW South Yarra and then Beaurepaires this was confirmed. All 4 tyres were affected and the sad thing is the car had only done 20,000km at that point (with one tyre rotation during that time).

I ended up replacing all 4 tyres and the car was quiet again. I was told my enthusiastic cornering was the likely cause of the problem so now I don't take corners as hard. My replacement set of Goodyear Assurance AGs have done 25,000 km and are still quiet.

Sentinel
19-06-2012, 02:36 PM
I seem to be having a similar problem - 118TSI at 30,000km. How can I tell if the tyres (Bridgestone Turanza) are causing it?

Also, what is feathering/scalloping, and are there any visual signs? What is the sound they make (mine is a kind of hum, higher pitched than normal road noise, but still pretty faint. Sometimes I can't tell if it's there, and it seems to go away on very smooth tarmac)?

If it's the tyres, will a different brand be better?

khamtran
19-06-2012, 02:56 PM
I seem to be having a similar problem - 118TSI at 30,000km. How can I tell if the tyres (Bridgestone Turanza) are causing it?

Also, what is feathering/scalloping, and are there any visual signs? What is the sound they make (mine is a kind of hum, higher pitched than normal road noise, but still pretty faint. Sometimes I can't tell if it's there, and it seems to go away on very smooth tarmac)?

If it's the tyres, will a different brand be better?

I was told all tyres to some extent are prone to scalloping depending on how they are cared for (hard cornering, infrequent wheel balancing/alignment etc).

I wasn't able to tell by looking at my tyres but when the Volkswagen tech drove the car he said the tyres sounded scalloped. The Beaurepaires guys confirmed this by feeling the tyres while otating them by hand.

When I had this problem I could hear a low whoop whoop sound which increased in frequency with speed. I could also feel a slight vibration through the car.

Frankenstrat
19-06-2012, 04:20 PM
I was told my enthusiastic cornering was the likely cause of the problem so now I don't take corners as hard.

Hmm, I think you may have a point there, there are a couple of roundabouts on my way home I do tend to take rather quickly (if it's safe to do so).


When I had this problem I could hear a low whoop whoop sound which increased in frequency with speed. I could also feel a slight vibration through the car.

With mine, it's a low frequency woo woo woo that seems to change with speed, but I can't say that I've noticed any vibration.

Umai Naa!!
20-06-2012, 10:08 AM
I seem to be having a similar problem - 118TSI at 30,000km. How can I tell if the tyres (Bridgestone Turanza) are causing it?

Also, what is feathering/scalloping, and are there any visual signs? What is the sound they make (mine is a kind of hum, higher pitched than normal road noise, but still pretty faint. Sometimes I can't tell if it's there, and it seems to go away on very smooth tarmac)?

If it's the tyres, will a different brand be better?

If you run your hand over the shoulders of the tyre, and they're coarser than the middle, you'll find that the tread blocks will have kicked up at the leading edge, with a trough so to speak, in the centre, or some tread blocks at intervals will be significantly higher than others. You usually see this on the inside edge of the tyre more often than the outside edge.

Sentinel
21-06-2012, 01:25 PM
If you run your hand over the shoulders of the tyre, and they're coarser than the middle, you'll find that the tread blocks will have kicked up at the leading edge, with a trough so to speak, in the centre, or some tread blocks at intervals will be significantly higher than others. You usually see this on the inside edge of the tyre more often than the outside edge.

Thank you! That's exactly the sort of information I need.

The humming/whining noise does seem to change depending on the texture of the tarmac, which suggests to me that it's probably tyre-related. The odd thing is that it doesn't seem to happen when the car is cold-started on a winter morning. It then takes about 20 minutes of driving to appear. If I start at midday, though, the noise begins almost immediately.

It's mostly apparent at speeds above 20 km/h, and doesn't seem to change in pitch depending on speed. Also, I say "seems" a lot, because it's not very loud, and sometimes I'm not sure it's even there. But I've driven this car since new, and I know all the sounds it makes, and I think this is an unpleasant, recently appearing one.

Sorry for my vagueness. But thanks again for the help!

entice
22-06-2012, 11:29 PM
Heel and toe wear is what everyone is describing.
It is not due to hard cornering etc etc.
It is exacerbated by lower profile tyres, and also made worse by tyre rotations - ie front to rear axle.
Some block patterns also make it worse.
Re050's are prime suspects.
Live with it, as trying o rotate it out will be unsuccessful. Or, cough up for new tyres prematurely, and hope it won't affect the new ones.
My gti suffered from it at around 15000kms after a tyre rotation. Never again.
Made me corner harder to promote tyre wear to advance the need for tyre replacement. Sold the car with 22000kms and it was still making the noise.

Oh, mk 6 golf is very prone to it. Factory alignment specs will lead to this.

Sentinel
23-06-2012, 07:41 AM
Thanks for the extra information.

There seem to be a lot of fingers pointing at Bridgestone tyres. Is there any particular brand or model of tyre that is less prone to this problem?

Jamar
23-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Is there any particular brand or model of tyre that is less prone to this problem?

Had some Goodyear NCTs on another car that were incredibly bad for this. Everyone that got in the car tried to convince me I needed a new wheel bearing.

Umai Naa!!
23-06-2012, 09:09 AM
Directional tyres are usually the worst for scalloping.

But I'd ask the tyre shop what they'd think would be the best compromise.

Transporter
23-06-2012, 09:11 AM
I think it's more to wheel alignment than brand and model of the tyre. As long as the tyre you have doesn't have the chunky blocks in the the tread close to the edge of the side wall.

We had GY Eagle NCT5 15" on our MK5 TDI and at 45,000km, when we sold the car the tyres had 1/2 the tread reamining and no faults in, not even the sign of the scalloping.

Frankenstrat
24-06-2012, 06:16 PM
I rotated the tyres today, front to back. I noticed that the driver's side rear tyre had scuffing on the inside, the passenger rear tyre had scuffing on the outside, the tyres look in remarkably good condiditon otherwise. I also reinflated them to the specs shown inside the filler cap, 300kPa rear, 250kPa front.

Tomorrow I'll be heading along the freeway so I'll know whether or not rotating has had any effect, the tyres are Pirelli P7s.

Frankenstrat
25-06-2012, 05:48 PM
Tomorrow I'll be heading along the freeway so I'll know whether or not rotating has had any effect, the tyres are Pirelli P7s.

No difference, the noise is still there and doesn't appear to have shifted from the back end to the front. More investigation is called for.

While the wheels were off I cleaned the rims on the inside, I noticed they were made in Turkey, they also appear to be some kind of aluminium alloy, Al Mg Si I think it was.

tonymy01
25-06-2012, 07:47 PM
My R has made a humming noise which is either the diff or rear tyres since new.
I gotta get and book it into the dealer for a 6 month and mention it.

BluChris
25-06-2012, 08:48 PM
Scalloping, feathering, saw tooth, call it what you will this is very common in the earlier chassis and may be in the Mk 6 if it is not too different. My Skoda Octavia (Golf chassis) had a Godawful noise that mimicked a wheel bearing beautifully but was a tyre.

Wheel alignment front and rear is critical - there is plenty about this on the forum if you search. I'd certainly start with getting the tyres checked. Regardless a 4 wheel alignment by someone who knows their stuff is worth it. Surprising how many cars leave the factory with poor alignment leading to premature wear, noise and ultimately early replacement.

Frankenstrat
26-06-2012, 04:35 PM
Wheel alignment front and rear is critical - there is plenty about this on the forum if you search. I'd certainly start with getting the tyres checked. Regardless a 4 wheel alignment by someone who knows their stuff is worth it. Surprising how many cars leave the factory with poor alignment leading to premature wear, noise and ultimately early replacement.

BluChris, very valid points indeed, and this was to be my next course of action.

Rob Burns
26-06-2012, 10:40 PM
My Skoda Octavia (Golf chassis) had a Godawful noise that mimicked a wheel bearing beautifully but was a tyre.



Tyre noise and wheel bearing noise sound very different. A wheel bearing noise will be a constant hum while a tyre noise sounds like you're being chased by a helicopter.

Frankenstrat
27-06-2012, 02:51 PM
a tyre noise sounds like you're being chased by a helicopter.

Damn that pesky PolAir One!

moniker
28-06-2012, 12:27 AM
Got to agree on the tyre front, at around 25,000 the TDI started being a bit noisy (wocka wocka wocka noise from front left at low-med speeds). At 30k service the wheel bearings were ok according to mechanic. (I asked him to check to rule them out as I did suspect the tyres). I did have tyres swapped front to back at 15k service as the fronts were noticeably lower in tread I thought. As others have pointed out maybe that makes noise issues worse later down the track?

kaanage
28-06-2012, 12:41 AM
some kind of aluminium alloy, Al Mg Si I think it was.

Aluminum, Magnesium, Silicon - pretty normal cast aluminum alloy (300 series - most likely 356, solution heat-treated).

I agree with the earlier post about cornering having nothing to do with the scallopping. The car that I drove the most gently had the worst scalloping, though I did get 75,000km from them (Goodyear NCT 5). Get new tyres and a GOOD alignment

Frankenstrat
28-06-2012, 05:26 PM
Kaanage, are you a foundry worker, or a fellow mechanical engineer?

kaanage
28-06-2012, 08:52 PM
Elec eng (working in IT, though) but with a major interest in mech eng, especially with regard to racing vehicles (cars, motorcycles, bicycles).

Get a copy of Carroll Smith's "Engineer to Win" if you're also into that stuff - that's where the bulk of my metallurgical knowledge comes from.

Frankenstrat
29-06-2012, 03:39 PM
I have Materials For The Engineering Technician by RA Higgins, and a hot line to a metallurgist who also has a small foundry.

Getting right back on topic, I've been advised (by Tyrepower) that the Pirelli P7s are at the low-end of the Pirelli range, prone to being noisy (I already knew that) and that I could replace them all or rotate them across the car to wear the feathering down. Can't be bothered with option 2, it's getting ludicrously noisy in the cabin now. Their recommendation is Toyo 205/55/R16, not sure which model though, approx $175 each.

Frankenstrat
03-07-2012, 11:06 PM
Their recommendation is Toyo 205/55/R16, not sure which model though, approx $175 each.

Toyo TEO Plus 205/55/R16 91V. First thing I noticed, the steering seemed lighter, second, they are quiet! Whoever suggested four pages ago that it was the tyres making the noise was right on the money.

Steveo
07-07-2012, 04:38 PM
Good to hear and after my experience I am not surprised.

Is there anyone who has had this problem. That is: replaced tyres with a different brand - with a big drop in noise, only to have it reappear 20,000km later?

With my last car I went from Bridgestones to Pirellis and had a big improvement, but did not run up enough kms on the new tyres to be convinced swapping brands would fix it. However our other family car is a Dualis with Bridgestones and it is much quieter than my Golf with Bridgestones... even though it is past 30,000km. I know they are vastly different tyres and cars but I don't want to pay out $1k only to have it come back anyway because it is a "Golf" or "Honda" thing.

Ozram
07-07-2012, 04:57 PM
Wheel alignment front and rear every 6 months. Rotate tyre front to back every 6 months 10,000km. This is the only way you'll stop the saw toothing on the edges of the tyres, and therefore the noise.

Frankenstrat
09-07-2012, 03:55 PM
Unless the tyres are directional, you can rotate R/r to L/f, L/f to L/r, L/r to R/f, R/f to R/r. I was going to suggest something similar to this but Bridgestone beat me to it. Tyre rotation (http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/passenger/care/rotation.aspx)

If you did this every 10,000km you would definitely lessen the saw-toothing effect.

I see Bridgestone recommend rotation every 5,000-8,000km

Rekkie
02-08-2012, 01:08 AM
Hi,

Just put on a set of P7's @ 60k. The left rear tyre had a lot of wear on the inside 2 inches and as mentioned above it sounded like a helicopter chasing me for the last 5k.

When they did the alligment today the steering was then out by about 5 deg and pulling to the left, i had to take it back to them and they took about 2 hours to ge it better but still not 100% as the steering is still slightly to the left. He mentioned he may have to recalobrate the machine as it should be ok and to bring it back tomorrow. The first alignment that stuffed the steering postion was only done on the front, the second alignment was mainly done on the back.

I am confused as to how the excessive wear is only on the 2 inches of the left rear tyre and the others are fine, i assume the rear allignment must have been way out but the report the machine gave back was in spec.

Richo64
04-08-2012, 06:52 PM
I had the same problem with my GTI. Had an awful noise & vibration at low speed (around 40km/hr) from 20000km onwards, which progressively got worse. Wasn't improved by having a wheel balance & alignment performed. Had Bridgestone RE 050 tyres. Changed the tryes today to Michelin PS3... noise & vibration gone & it feels like a new car.
I wonder if part of the problem with the Brigdestones is that this one is a undirectionl tyre, which seems to make the "saw toothing" become progressively worse with wear.

Steveo
04-08-2012, 08:20 PM
Richo64 - will be interested to see how they go after a few thousand kms because I have the same issue as you - GTI and Bridgestones. How much by the way?

Toss-up between these and the Primacy HP. They get a fairly good reception on Tirerack.com reviews. The other one which doesn't appear available for the GTI is the Pilot Super Sport, which comes up top of the pile in the same reviews (quiet and grippy)

Has anyone been able to get the Pilot Super Sport in Australia (225/45/17)

rosslm
04-08-2012, 08:21 PM
Confirmation of the above I did the same change from Bridgestone RE050's to Michelin PS3's the Michelins are very quiet, the tyre dealer recommended the Michelin's and he said he was aware of complaints about the noise generated from the RE050's it was particularly noticeable coasting to a stop at traffic lights on smooth bitumen.

nat225
04-08-2012, 09:13 PM
Richo64 - will be interested to see how they go after a few thousand kms because I have the same issue as you - GTI and Bridgestones. How much by the way?

Toss-up between these and the Primacy HP. They get a fairly good reception on Tirerack.com reviews. The other one which doesn't appear available for the GTI is the Pilot Super Sport, which comes up top of the pile in the same reviews (quiet and grippy)

Has anyone been able to get the Pilot Super Sport in Australia (225/45/17)

according to the official Michelin Australia 2012 price list, the PSS is not available in 225 45 17. 225 40 18 is not available either. It is only available in 235 35 19 for the Golf, rrp $681 each.

the Primacy HP would be a lot more comfortable and quieter tyre than the PSS. and it lasts a long time too! i have these on my other car, 25,000km traveled and there are still 5-6mm of tread remaining (approx 50,000km reported on the new Accord Euro). it's also OEM on the Toyota GTS 86 which they call Prius tyres in Japan.

Steveo
04-08-2012, 11:11 PM
Thanks nat225

Interesting about that price. The PSS is listed as $177 on Tirerack

Michelin Pilot Super Sport (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Super+Sport&partnum=245YR7PSSXL&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Volkswagen&autoYear=2011&autoModel=GTI&autoModClar=4-Door%20With%20Rubber%20Valve%20Stems)

User reviews on Tirerack suggest the PSS is quieter than the Primacy HP

wai
06-08-2012, 07:55 AM
I have just been through this. My Caddy Maxi Life has done just 15,000 km and the rear tyres are doing this. The dealer says it is scalloping and is not their responsibility. Oh, they did suggest that I have the "toe in" corrected...on a beam axle!

Basically, the non-drive tyres are prone to this where the tyres are asymmetrical and tyre pressures are at the lower end of the pressure range. This is caused because the two halves of the tread have different rolling resistance (not friction) because of the different tread blocking. With low tyre pressures, this sees the carcass plies on one side dragging relative to the other side and this has the effect of changing the toe in of the wheel.

The only way around this is to replace the tyres with non-asymmetrical tyres so that it will roll true and not have one side dragging relative to the other. It is expensive to have to replace tyres after just 15,000 km (in my case).

Steveo
11-08-2012, 07:08 PM
I have just been through this. My Caddy Maxi Life has done just 15,000 km and the rear tyres are doing this. The dealer says it is scalloping and is not their responsibility. Oh, they did suggest that I have the "toe in" corrected...on a beam axle!

Basically, the non-drive tyres are prone to this where the tyres are asymmetrical and tyre pressures are at the lower end of the pressure range. This is caused because the two halves of the tread have different rolling resistance (not friction) because of the different tread blocking. With low tyre pressures, this sees the carcass plies on one side dragging relative to the other side and this has the effect of changing the toe in of the wheel.

The only way around this is to replace the tyres with non-asymmetrical tyres so that it will roll true and not have one side dragging relative to the other. It is expensive to have to replace tyres after just 15,000 km (in my case).



I've had non-asymmetrical tyres develop the roar from the blocks feathering (or scalloping), so I think there is more to it than that. However what you are saying could still be the case with standard tyres.

I am going to have to bite the bullet and and I think I will line up for Michelin PS3s. The noise from my current tyres is just too annoying even though they still have a lot of tread.

Steveo
09-09-2012, 05:10 PM
Got the PS3's yesterday - and the noise level difference is marked. Suddenly I can hear the engine and turbo burble again - great. (Now I'll probably start hearing other things and getting worried.)

Hopefully they will stay this way - will get them checked - balanced and maybe another wheel alignment in 5000kms.

I just have to wait for the initial sheen to wear off. At the first set of lights I managed to spin the tyres with a normal take-off. (At least I hope this is caused by the initial residue and I will get better traction soon)

Richo64
11-09-2012, 07:18 PM
Glad to hear you're happy with your new tyres Steve. The traction will improve (my PS3's have done a bit over 1000km), and I agree that regular rotation, balancing ect. is necessary. Enjoy. For me it made it feel like a new car.

Tom Sawyer
03-10-2012, 06:21 PM
I had this exact problem from the rear of my GTi. Thought it was a bearing problem initially, but when I had the front tyres replaced due to wear with some Conti's and had them put on the rear (i.e. 4 wheel swap around), the noise moved to front and was very noticeable when braking between 30-40kmh, with a juddering through the steering. Changed that front pair (Bridgestone Potenzas) to some Goodyear Assymetrics (great tyre!) and the noise just totally disappeared. Car is quite again.
Would never touch Bridgestones again!

wai
03-10-2012, 08:58 PM
(Now I'll probably start hearing other things and getting worried.)

Thar's easily fixed.

Just place a small steel ball in the ash tray. You will know what that noise is and it will drown out everything else :-D

thirdwill
12-11-2012, 06:24 PM
My MK6 GTI is making vibrating sounds most prominent around the 70km/hr mark (sounds like a hovering UFO inside the car). It actually fades off when driving at higher speeds. But I think the problem is gradually getting worse.

I took the car to the dealership last friday and they said its the tyres. They said something about edges but the only thing that stuck to me was complete tyre replacement was the only fix :( I asked them to do a wheel rotation but that didn't fix anything.

Is this a problem with my tyres as a set or do you think getting the front two or the back two replaced would fix the problem? The tyres have done around 33,000kms and still have a bit of mileage left. How many km's are the stock tyres rated for?

rosslm
12-11-2012, 06:55 PM
I did the same change from Bridgestone RE050's to Michelin PS3's the Michelins are very quiet, the tyre dealer recommended the Michelin's and he said he was aware of complaints about the noise generated from the RE050's it was particularly noticeable coasting to a stop at traffic lights on smooth bitumen.

As mentioned earlier in this post I changed tyres as above, done about 6000km now still silent. I can certainly recommend the Michelin's a bit pricy $1000 fitted but well worth it.